Kakashi vs Itachi

[BenjerminGaye]

Falling for a feint isn't about intellect.

Unless you think Zabuza is smarter than Kakashi (he's not.)

Then what is it about? chakra levels? Just because i'm stronger/have more chakra/ i won't fall for it? He says he didn't notice it. Maybe he wasn't smart enough to realize.....(on both occasions)

At the time zabuza was smarter. He figured out how to beat and the mechanics behind kakashi's sharingan.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Itachi wins this, Lilt has given more than enough evidence. I need not join in.

 

[Lilt]

Then what is it about? chakra levels? Just because i'm stronger/have more chakra/ i won't fall for it? He says he didn't notice it. Maybe he wasn't smart enough to realize.....(on both occasions)

At the time zabuza was smarter. He figured out how to beat and the mechanics behind kakashi's sharingan.

Zabuza was never smarter. Clone feints are sleights of hand, as I said before. You take advantage of a situational lapse in sight. A 30% clone didn't have the chakra to divide itself with another clone. So Kakashi using a 50% clone to hold a 30% clone and having Naruto help doesn't indicate anything other than Itachi was already outnumbered and working on a fraction of chakra, not to mention he was only stalling and never wanted to hurt/defeat Konoha ninja to begin with.

As for the original clone feint in part one, Itachi created it after kicking Kurenai, before Kakashi entered the battle. Because the lapse in sight was targeted against Kurenai, not Kakashi, then Kakashi seeing it isn't a feat of anything.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Zabuza was never smarter.

Zabuza figured out the mechanics in their second fight making him smarter. Kakashi was forced to use alternate methods.

Clone feints are sleights of hand, as I said before. You take advantage of a situational lapse in sight.

Did itachi fall for it? Said slight of hand. Or is it not itachi's fault lapse in sight was broken in the first place? He shot the fireball and kakashi took advantage of it. Simple as that. Same thing can/will happen in this situation cuz like u said all either needs to do is break line of sight.

A 30% clone didn't have the chakra to divide itself with another clone. So Kakashi using a 50% clone to hold a 30% clone and having Naruto help doesn't indicate anything other than Itachi was already outnumbered and working on a fraction of chakra, not to mention he was only stalling and never wanted to hurt/defeat Konoha ninja to begin with.

Considering that crow clones take up less chakra than regular clones that's not true. He could have made a clone.
As for him being out numbered sakura and chiyo took no part in that fight. Both sides were playing to conserve chakra.
Him working with less chakra than normal doesn't change his intellectual abilities. He should have expected a clone feint this is kakashi were talking about. Afterall kakashi was expecting tsukuyomi. His motives are irrelevant to the feat.

As for the original clone feint in part one, Itachi created it after kicking Kurenai, before Kakashi entered the battle. Because the lapse in sight was targeted against Kurenai, not Kakashi, then Kakashi seeing it isn't a feat of anything.

First you said kakashi made the clone before hand and now your saying itachi made the clone beforehand? Boy your story changes up a lot. Manga disproves both.
Like i said before what good is the feint if it only works on half the crowd? That's bad "slight of hand"

 

[AGoodBoy]

itachi would win without resorting to ms. A simple taijutsu showdown with fire jutsu, genjutsu, kage bushin and crow clone feints, would do it.
Kakashi himself has said he can't keep up with itachi's jutsu execution speed... It's only because so many people on here hate itachi they even say kakashi, because the first thing that comes to mind is him using MS, as if he weren't faster then kakashi at foot speed and jutsu speed, and had a sharingan that didn't take as much of a toll on him.

 

[Lilt]

Zabuza figured out the mechanics in their second fight making him smarter.

Incorrect. Zabuza said Haku was the who figured out counter methods in their second fight.

Did itachi fall for it? Said slight of hand. Or is it not itachi's fault lapse in sight was broken in the first place? He shot the fireball and kakashi took advantage of it. Simple as that. Same thing can/will happen in this situation cuz like u said all either needs to do is break line of sight.

Except this time Itachi isn't a watered down clone and isn't stalling or holding back. He can make his own clones after his katon, as he did against Naruto and Bee.

First you said kakashi made the clone before hand and now your saying itachi made the clone beforehand? Boy your story changes up a lot. Manga disproves both.

Kakashi obviously sent in his initial water clone before arriving himself from underwater. Similarly, Itachi sent in his Kage Bunshin behind Kurenai before the real him arrived behind Kakashi's water clone. The difference is that Itachi's clone was targeted at Kurenai and Kakashi's clone was targeted at Itachi.

The fact that Kakashi saw Itachi's clone feint when the feint wasn't targeted at him isn't an amazing feat of perception, especially when he said Itachi was holding back. Besides that, we know Hebi Sasuke was unable to follow sick Itachi's clone feints despite being just as fast as part one Kakashi with an even better mastery of the base Sharingan.

And sick Itachi was said to be significantly slower than normal by Zetsu.

 

[AGoodBoy]

I love how people rebute that itachi heavily relies on his sharingan* yet it took sasuke less than a week to go fully blind, whereas it took itachi YEARS. LeL

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Incorrect. Zabuza said Haku was the who figured out counter methods in their second fight.



Except this time Itachi isn't a watered down clone and isn't stalling or holding back. He can make his own clones after his katon, as he did against Naruto and Bee.

Nobody said he couldn't. All im saying is that when it comes to clone games kakashi is better. There is a higher chance of kakashi tricking itachi than itachi tricking kakashi. After all he fell for it twice.

Kakashi obviously sent in his initial water clone before arriving himself from underwater. Similarly, Itachi sent in his Kage Bunshin behind Kurenai before the real him arrived behind Kakashi's water clone. The difference is that Itachi's clone was targeted at Kurenai and Kakashi's clone was targeted at Itachi.

Both the anime and the manga disproves this.Please stop.

The fact that Kakashi saw Itachi's clone feint when the feint wasn't targeted at him isn't an amazing feat of perception, especially when he said Itachi was holding back. Besides that, we know Hebi Sasuke was unable to follow sick Itachi's clone feints despite being just as fast as part one Kakashi with an even better mastery of the base Sharingan.

And sick Itachi was said to be significantly slower than normal by Zetsu.

What good is a magician that uses slight of hand to trick half the audience? Your talking out your ass now. Itachi had 3 opponents why go through the trouble of tricking one if the others are going to see it? That's stupid.

Yet when kakashi did his feint it tricked both itachi and kisame, because that's how its supposed to be done. Proving my point even more that kakashi is better than itachi at clone games.

Back on topic.

Crow/exploding/shadow clones are countered by water/lightening/shadow clones.
Fireball and phoenix flower is countered by water/earth wall and water dragon.
Water drill is countered by water wall.
Nothing less than sharingan genjutsu is going to work on kakashi and even then chances are he could break it due to having his own sharingan, even worse if itachi wastes his time and chakra using genjutsu on a clone.
Itachi only uses his crows for his crow clone but for sake of argument it gets countered by dog summons.
Thats all itachi has and yet kakashi still has his raitons to fall back on.
Lightening transmission
Lightening blade
Lightening beast runner
Lightening kunai