Kakashi vs Hiruzen

[Houssem]

I'd post links but you clearly haven't read the manga. Stating facts isn't being a fanboy buddy. The manga clearly states he was the strongest hokage konoha ever had, he was the strongest hokage of his era, and was the God of Shinobi in his prime. The only other shinobi to share his nickname was the sage of six paths. Nagato was a self proclaimed "God", hiruzens official titles were the professor and God of Shinobi. You are a troll too. Congrats, embarass it, accept it, live with it, it's who you are.

Hate to disappoint you, you are the one who didn't read the manga :

You must be registered for see images

Yous shouldn't deny who you are, you are a fanboy and there's nothin you can do about it :shrug:

Hiruzen was stated to be ( strongest kage ) not hokage by kabuto, as for as iruka's statement it's his opinion and he was only boostin him infront of the academy kids, hiruzen said he's weaker than minato... + That statement was contradictory, hiruzen told him to not use past tense so whe means that he's still the stronger, than a few chapters later he states that even he cant match Minato...
Minato was STATED not said to have unrivaled strength when he appeared in the manga cover, that doesnt mean that he's the strongest, absolute statements don't exist when events are in constant evolution. ( arguing and conversation basics 1o1 )
+ What do we know about hiruzen prime ? he would have 5 in speed strength and stamina right ?
So he had all his jutsu's facing orochimaru and yet he knew it woudnt work against hashirama and tobirama so being wise he directly choose to sacrifice himself he didnt even had a true fight vs the hokage's...
Hiruzen still takes this against kakashi.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

In fact hiruzens katon is probably on the same level as madaras

it wasnt nearly as big and there are big jutsus in part 1. hiruzens jutsus werent one of them. even zabuzas great waterfall was bigger.

its impossible to say minato or hashirama are realistically stronger when they weren't stated to be the strongest hokage konoha ever had.

sasuke was stated as having killed zabuza, somethign we know to be false. its only konohas opinion that hes strongest hokage and only by the people living in his era (iruka, oro). the people who looked up to minato considered him the strongest and fastest (jiraiya, A, kakashi, naruto himself). surpassing his father has always been narutos goal. no one told him all the hokages sacrificed as much as minato did but he didnt care i guess.

Oh all of amekagure? Too bad hiruzen was recognized by all five great countries as the God of shinobi

since when has someone outside of konoha spoken highly of the third? it never happened. the best i can do is when madara/tobi didnt attack the village during his reign. the most famous ninja outside of konoha was minato. foriegn ninjas ran from him on sight. raikage considered him the best ever.

How again does this refute the fact that he shares the same nick name as the sage of six paths, was stated to be konohas strongest hokage, and was stated to be the strongest kage in his era

all of those were only true 5 years ago. kishi has long since revealed just how strong the other hokages were, and other gokage. no one in part 2 has shown respect or admiration for the third. however they all look up to minato, third raikage, hashirama, third kazekage, and onoki. the kages themselves respect gaara as onoki stated. but not a single man or woman has ever said "gee you know that guy, sandaime hokage? he was so strong! he wiped out my whole army" or "gee you know that jutsu? only the sandaime could be capable of using that!"

The fact that kishi wrote it in the manga provides proof itself that he was that good.

kishi writes alot of things in his manga. like sauske killing zabuza, kabuto being invincible, itachi being invincible, hashirama being written off as a fairy tale etc.
if you take anything and everythign written in the manga as proof of something then hiruzen admitted his own talent is inferior to orochimaru and orochiamru said his genius is inferior to sasuke's therefore sasuke > hiruzen prime.

In fact in the databook it states that if him and emna were together, they were an unbeatable duo.

databook says alot of things. most of which have been contradicted by new manga information. if we take everything said in part 1 as fact, then sharingan comes from byakugan (apparently sage of six paths never existed in part 1 logic), kyubi attack was an accident, hiruzens talent < oro's, 4th kazekage is iredeemably evil, gaaras mum hated him, itachi killed the clan cos he wanted to reach his limits etc. if you can accept one retcon, why not another?

In fact hiruzen was aware of every technique in konoha and had mastery in them.

no he didnt because if you know every tech, youd know sharingan and gentle fist which is an impossibility

Dan knew nothing about hiruzens prime, as hiruzen got his nick name during the second shinobi world war not the first, dan died prior to him getting his nickname.

ok. source? damn you accuse me of having no proof. you say whatever you like and make crap up to your liking

Was minato claimed the God of shinobi? Was minato stated to be the strongest hokage?

no because people didnt have that opinion of him. jiraiya and A respected his abilities because they saw them first hand. hiruzen hasnt done a damn thing to deserve his praise and especially in part 2 where this so called god of shinobi has gone almost completely ignored. part 2 overrules part 1 as i pointed out. unless you want itachi to stay evil

No where in the manga has it ever been stated that the strongest hokage was hashirama or minato, only hiruzen.

nowhere in the manga was the mist's opinion of sasuke killing zabuza contradicted so therefore it must be true no matter what actually happened?

 

[Nikohru]

hiruzen

 

[youralltrolls]

Hate to disappoint you, you are the one who didn't read the manga :

You must be registered for see images

Yous shouldn't deny who you are, you are a fanboy and there's nothin you can do about it :shrug:

Hiruzen was stated to be ( strongest kage ) not hokage by kabuto, as for as iruka's statement it's his opinion and he was only boostin him infront of the academy kids, hiruzen said he's weaker than minato... + That statement was contradictory, hiruzen told him to not use past tense so whe means that he's still the stronger, than a few chapters later he states that even he cant match Minato...
Minato was STATED not said to have unrivaled strength when he appeared in the manga cover, that doesnt mean that he's the strongest, absolute statements don't exist when events are in constant evolution. ( arguing and conversation basics 1o1 )
+ What do we know about hiruzen prime ? he would have 5 in speed strength and stamina right ?
So he had all his jutsu's facing orochimaru and yet he knew it woudnt work against hashirama and tobirama so being wise he directly choose to sacrifice himself he didnt even had a true fight vs the hokage's...
Hiruzen still takes this against kakashi.

Your argument falls right on its face when you posted that manga link. Hiruzen said most likely including me, that's not for sure. Maybe you should get some glasses. Hiruzen sealed two edo's and stopped orochimaru's invasion so he clearly did beat him regardless of whether or not oro died. Your a troll its okay to be wrong sometimes.

 

[Gèckö]

You could give him kamui and make Hiruzen old. doesn't matter I don't see Kakashi winning.

This^^

 

[youralltrolls]

it wasnt nearly as big and there are big jutsus in part 1. hiruzens jutsus werent one of them. even zabuzas great waterfall was bigger.

sasuke was stated as having killed zabuza, somethign we know to be false. its only konohas opinion that hes strongest hokage and only by the people living in his era (iruka, oro). the people who looked up to minato considered him the strongest and fastest (jiraiya, A, kakashi, naruto himself). surpassing his father has always been narutos goal. no one told him all the hokages sacrificed as much as minato did but he didnt care i guess.

There's no proof whatsoever that refutes the third hokage as the God of Shinobi or the strongest hokage. Your comparing a battle we read first hand to someone elses knowledge vs a character that was hyped up by kishi with no proof of his prime.

since when has someone outside of konoha spoken highly of the third? it never happened. the best i can do is when madara/tobi didnt attack the village during his reign. the most famous ninja outside of konoha was minato. foriegn ninjas ran from him on sight. raikage considered him the best ever.

The raikage acknowledged him as unsurpassed in terms of speed. Although I do agree he's just as strong as hiruzen. Is the bolded part not proof enough? Also hiruzen led konoha in the second shinobi world war and didn't die, something tobirama and hashirama failed to do in the wars they fought.

all of those were only true 5 years ago. kishi has long since revealed just how strong the other hokages were, and other gokage. no one in part 2 has shown respect or admiration for the third. however they all look up to minato, third raikage, hashirama, third kazekage, and onoki. the kages themselves respect gaara as onoki stated. but not a single man or woman has ever said "gee you know that guy, sandaime hokage? he was so strong! he wiped out my whole army" or "gee you know that jutsu? only the sandaime could be capable of using that!"

How exactly did those make them false? Were there specific statements stating it to be true, or are you basing this off hype?

kishi writes alot of things in his manga. like sauske killing zabuza, kabuto being invincible, itachi being invincible, hashirama being written off as a fairy tale etc.
if you take anything and everythign written in the manga as proof of something then hiruzen admitted his own talent is inferior to orochimaru and orochiamru said his genius is inferior to sasuke's therefore sasuke > hiruzen prime.

This is probably the funniest thing i've read all day. Hiruzen didn't admit he was inferior to orochimaru, some guy posted the manga page above me and he said he probably wouldn't win. Or in other terms he might win he might not. Remember this is hiruzen old and your comparing being a genius to actual battle skills? Sasuke attributed his success to beating orochimaru to his sickly state.

databook says alot of things. most of which have been contradicted by new manga information. if we take everything said in part 1 as fact, then sharingan comes from byakugan (apparently sage of six paths never existed in part 1 logic), kyubi attack was an accident, hiruzens talent < oro's, 4th kazekage is iredeemably evil, gaaras mum hated him, itachi killed the clan cos he wanted to reach his limits etc. if you can accept one retcon, why not another?

Because not a single character has been stated to be the strongest hokage konoha ever had besides hiruzen? Tell me when hashirama and minato were stated to be the strongest hokage and i'll stop.



ok. source? damn you accuse me of having no proof. you say whatever you like and make crap up to your liking

You must be registered for see links

States he was the God of Shinobi, even orochimaru someone who hated the leaf acknowledged this.

You must be registered for see links

Here is emna stating he mastered the may of the shinobi.

You must be registered for see links

Kabuto stating he was the strongest of the 5 kages.

You can check the wikia for more, I can't spend all day posting links gotta go to work in a few. However if it makes a difference, A stated in the 4th shinobi war saying something along the lines, no wonder we haven't been able to beat konoha, you all have great shinobi. Now tsunade praised hiruzen for producing fine and determined shinobi. Mix two and two together there.

no because people didnt have that opinion of him. jiraiya and A respected his abilities because they saw them first hand. hiruzen hasnt done a damn thing to deserve his praise and especially in part 2 where this so called god of shinobi has gone almost completely ignored. part 2 overrules part 1 as i pointed out. unless you want itachi to stay evil

Your right, he hasn't done anything to deserve praise, but there hasn't been a shinobi who was given the title strongest hokage konoha ever had, or God of shinobi since the sage of six paths or hiruzen.

nowhere in the manga was the mist's opinion of sasuke killing zabuza contradicted so therefore it must be true no matter what actually happened?

Read my above post. Your comparing a battle that we all witnessed vs someone kishi hyped up and stated was the strongest hokage konoha ever had. Find me the page which states minato and/or hiruzen were the strongest hokage konoha ever had. You can use the wikia too, they have reference pages at the bottom to help people find information.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Find me the page which states minato and/or hiruzen were the strongest hokage konoha ever had.

find me a page where hiruzen proves hes a "god"

 

[Houssem]

Your argument falls right on its face when you posted that manga link. Hiruzen said most likely including me, that's not for sure. Maybe you should get some glasses. Hiruzen sealed two edo's and stopped orochimaru's invasion so he clearly did beat him regardless of whether or not oro died. Your a troll its okay to be wrong sometimes.

Most likely = 70 per cent get your facts right.
This means your argument that he was the strongest was wrong, wich means your wrong , my job here is done. ( i bet someone who dont read the manga didnt even know about this page )

 

[youralltrolls]

Most likely = 70 per cent get your facts right.
This means your argument that he was the strongest was wrong, wich means your wrong , my job here is done. ( i bet someone who dont read the manga didnt even know about this page )

Where does this 70% come from? He defeated orochimaru, the first hokage, and the second hokage. You fail epicly.

 

[youralltrolls]

find me a page where hiruzen proves hes a "god"

You must be registered for see links

Here you go, since you clearly missed it the first time. Here it is stated he was hailed as the God of Shinobi.

 

[Houssem]

Where does this 70% come from? He defeated orochimaru, the first hokage, and the second hokage. You fail epicly.

Defeating someone means you are alive and he's dead, oro' was alive hiruzen was dead. What part of that dont you understand ?
The 70 per cent comes from logic English books.

'You can do whatever you want to convince a fanboy, it wont work cus' logic wont work against faith. Conclusion fanboys and their characters are like religious and their God.'' NH :shrug:

 

[EYES OF ITACHI]

restricting kamui puts kakashi in a bad spot.....Hiruzen has the reaper death seal..its cheating not 2 have that restricted as well...but kakashi lightning beats Hiruzen earth...so i gotta go wit kakashi

 

[SuperSonicTails]

U restrict kamui and there is no way kakashi can win. Hiruzen was the god shinobi. I think he should be considered in the higher ranks of shinobi, like top ten. Hiruzen wins mid-high difficulty

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Hiruzen was the god shinobi.

no he was called that. only god here is rikudo sennin. even nagato is only a fraction of that guys power

He defeated orochimaru, the first hokage, and the second hokage

no he didnt. he killed himself to seal away hokages who were toying with him and could have killed him any time they wanted had oro allowed it. oro won the fight.

Here you go, since you clearly missed it the first time. Here it is stated he was hailed as the God of Shinobi.

i said find me a page where he proves his legend and does something godly. struggling vs oro and kyuubi isnt proving your a god

 

[xBijuu]

No kamui? Hiruzen.

Now say it's Hiruzen in old age vs Kakashi Kamui, Then I say Kakashi high difficulty.