=Psycho Maid;18491415]Kakashi is a much more dangerous combatant than Jūgo or Suigetsu at close range with, or without a weapon. Faster, more skilled, more nimble, more agile, and has the feats to back it up.
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, and open the first gate to increase his speed and power in CQC. I don't see how not using hand seals changes anything since the sharingan can predict movement, so he'll see the snakes coming anyway.
i know, thats why i said hes best bet is avoiding them and try not to get caught. your post implied he would be able to slice them off if he is caught which i havent proven as false as sasuke can bind hands and leg so he isnt moving freely to be able to cut them at least not before sasuke kills him. i dont see the relevance of using raikiri with both hands as sasuke has 2 snakes to tie up his hands leading up to his leg. to sum it up, if he is caught its practically gg but he is more than capable of avoiding it. but my main point with this is that it gives sasuke an advantage in cqc and allow him keep kakashi on his toes.
You haven't exactly countered my point about the raikiri enhanced kunais either. Those snakes would get cut through like butter. If Sasuke tries to use it for defense as well.
he would only use it when he is about to be attacked unexpectedly. sasuke doesnt need it to defend from kakashis raiton kunai so theres nothing to address.
You didn't really assess my scan. If you look at it again, you'd see that the 3T genjutsu was broken by Manda himself, and he started talking afterwards. Sasuke is going to have to keep putting Manda under genjutsu over and over, because it only takes one glance to put someone or something under genjutsu, and from there on the potency of the wielder's illusion is what maintains the genjutsu. Not to mention that Manda will also be healthy, so he should have less trouble breaking out of it.
i saw the scan and there is nothing in there that even remotely suggests that manda broke it. all we saw is the genjutsu wearing off but that could have been sasuke releasing it as it had already fulfilled its purpose so he has no need to keep wasting his chakra by keeping it in genjutsu. except manda isnt breaking anything, he couldnt break it as he was controlled and used as a shield so i have no reason to believe it can, at least not before sasuke already uses it for his agenda. so sasuke doesnt have to keep putting it under genjutsu and so far you have provided no evidence of manda breaking it, that scan doesnt explain anything either.
fact is
1. he was tamed, then controlled to the point were sasuke got inside it and used it as a shield
2. never broke out and the genjutsu weared off only after it had served its purpose meaning sasuke could have possibly released it himself.
even if you are right(which you are not) and it broke out, however it only did so after the explosion and sasuke had used it, and not before so it doesnt matter either way. manda wasnt unhealthy, what are you talking about??
3T sharingan genjutsu counters 3T sharingan genjutsu, as seen with Sasuke vs. Itachi and Kakashi vs. Obito. Kakashi casts his own illusion on Manda to counter Sasuke's, it's not difficult to follow.
exept in this case, kakashi would have to overide sasukes genjutsu control on manda, pretty sure its easier said than done. plus no evidence of kakashs genjutsu strong enough to tame a boss summon let alone overide that of sasukes. not to mention manda and sasuke would come at him very fast so putting under genjutsu in that condition would be difficult especially when it burrow underground and attack unexpectedly
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You have no feats that prove that a snake's skin is hard or durable enough to withstand something that sliced through v2 jin cloaks with ease. Expend more chakra into his attacks? Doesn't make sense, and he won't need to do that, but ok.
sasukes casual snake guard protected him from this explosion
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. not saying that would help much in cutting attacks but its just to give you an idea of snakes tough skin, that was from a much smaller snake. a boss snake of a size this
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is definitely not getting caught down easily, bigger means more skin to get through which is why i said he would need to expend more chakra to do so. also doesnt raiden require a bunshin to use? so sasuke can stop the technique if he attacks and destroys the bunshin.and manda its not some slow ass snake, like i showed its fast, and can move underground, it manhandled katusyu and bunta. having to take it down and sasuke together is a monumental task for him. am not denying kakashi the impossibility of cutting it, just not as easily especially when he has sasuke to worry about who would be on top of manda.
Decent point about Sasuke, but he'd have to worry about Manda turning on him after Kakashi casts his own genjutsu on the giant snake, and Kakashi can use another bunshin here as well to give him enough time to execute Raiden.
already disproved that kakashi point so its moot, and what is his bunshin supposed to do exactly?
Also, Kakashi can just slice through Manda's head with raikiri kunais as well
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what part of sasuke would be on mandas head dont you understand? if he attacks manda then sasuke also attacks from above, he certainly isnt achieving two things at once, he gets overwhelmed.
My point is that the curse mark is only viable at short range here, and it'd be a waste of his chakra and energy to keep activating and deactivating.
if kakashi keeps his distance then sasuke doesnt use it, simple as that. he only uses it once he has kakashi in sight.
Any Chidori variant attacks Sasuke uses get copied or countered with Kakashi's own Raikiri variants. Any katon Sasuke uses gets stalemated at the worst by
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which is >> than Sasuke's katon alone powered up by the curse mark.
and why cant sasuke do the same exactly? he has a sharingan you know. but non the less suitons and katons wont be of much use so moving on.
Somewhat agree, but Kakashi's war arc stamina feats are rather absurd for someone who was more or less out of shape until the war. He won't have a problem using several bunshins, nor keeping up with Sasuke in a drawn out battle in this respect.
if you give him his war arc stamina feats then sure but not otherwise.
I don't really get this comparison either. The difference between the torso and the limbs/tails of a v2 Jin should be rather small compared to the difference between the tails and the rest of the body of the entire 8 Tails. Not to mention that Raiden's piercing power surpasses Chidori Eiso's
fair point i guess.
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I don't understand why Kakashi wouldn't have that luxury. It's just chakra, it's not like the wolf needs a platform with which to run on just because it has legs. The technique is just a product of applying shape manipulation. Since it blitzed Tendō in just one panel, the technique is rather quick as well.
it doesnt have any cutting feat or anything compared to chidori eiso and he certainly hasnt used it as effectively and freely as eiso has as i showed unless you can prove otherwise. it didnt bliz tendo, the latter simply stood there and opted as it can easily repel it which is what it did, so there was no need to move.
They're used for different purposes, but when it comes down to it, Raikiri surpasses the Chidori, so they're more powerful.
more powerful, but not more useful, and sasuke has shown more as well as for certain ranges.
Uh, yeah, I have. Kakashi has shown the ability to apply shape manipulation imbue his chakra into other weapons tith the Raikiri like Sasuke did with the Chidori. He can use it as a projectile, a weapon, an attack at mid or short range. The difference being that he uses the Raikiri, while Sasuke uses the Chidori. Case in point.
weopon usage with raikiri or chidori is irrelevant as both sides have shown to do it. but i guess you have a point in the latter sentence. though kirin beats anything kakashi has but not as battle effective since it requires prep.
It will take him a lot longer since the heat of amaterasu's flames>>>>Sasuke's cm enhanced katon. In the scan I posted, African Ameican Zetsu said that Sasuke specifically took the battle outside to take advantage of amaterasu, implying that Sasuke knew about this technique, and implying that he incorporated this into his strategy.
obviously, he took advantage of amaterasu flames, doesnt mean he cant set it up on his own without it, only thing it would take longer.
Clearly Sasuke won't find it viable to use just his own fire release to heat up the sky. He's going to have to spam a lot of fire techniques in CM2 form just to get the stom clouds to form if we go by your claim. And Kakashi's has a set of good suiton techniques that he can use without a water source to prevent Sasuke from doing this.
he just needs to fire some bunch of fireballs from the start but i agree its not really practicable if he decides to use natural lightning. how is he going to stop fireballs travelling to the sky?also you didnt address the scan i posted of him being able to somehow use a variant of it with his own chakra, that can come in handy.
Yeah he was worn out, because his hand was injured from training with Naruto, he had already used several raikiris, and he took some damage from Fuuton: Atsugai and Kakuzu's kick. Kakashi had below average reserves and stamina at this point in the manga, so yeah he was worn out.
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ok then.
Sai was there using his fūinjutsu to seal the opponents. The others were sealed by then, when he faced Fuguki Suizakan, and Kakashi being the leader of that respective company means that he lead the charge and attacked first against these opponents. Ameyuri Ringo and the other sword clown both had their swords, and Kakashi was standing right in front of them with the Kubikiribōchō. In all probability, it was him that defeated these opponents.
leading the charge doesnt mean he defeated them alone, there is simply no proof of it. its off panel in which a lot could have happened that we know of. period so you cant use it as a form of evidence. all it shows is that he is skilled with the blade, but better than sasuk?? nope.
Bested Killer Bee? Bee literally tanked his attack with no damage whatsoever and stood there, and started writing song lyrics afterwards, lmfao. Once Bee got serious,
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your point is irrelevant as when i mean bested am obviously talking about only in their initial kenjutsu spar with bees large blade. the main issue is about kenjutsu only. sasuke took him on and came out on top, thats why bee dropped it and brought out his 8 swords. switching weapons means he felt it was needless and he needed his plan b so sasuke won the initial encounter and he did it without his sharingan as well as not being in top shape and since you failed to disprove any of it and instead brought up the scan of the 8 swords when i made no reference to it means you have no valid counter
The thing you forget is that Kakashi was using an inferior weapon in the kunai... Also we have the feat of Kakashi squaring off evenly against Zabuza with just a kunai [
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using kunais to clash with another isnt anything special, part 1 sasuke did that almost everytime. if it is hard enough to clash with the object its going up against with then i dont see how it matters as long as you have the skill.
The 7 Swordsmen of the Mist are famous for their mastery in kenjutsu as the name implies... Samurai are also masters, but Kakashi took on the former mostly with an inferior weapon, while Sasuke used his katana against the Samurai.
true but you failed to show kakashi defeating them alone so using them is irrelevant. he had that large blade, how is that an inferior weapon??
He showed a lot of skill in using the Kubikiribōchō. He wielded the White Fang's very own tantō when he was a kid. He also went toe to toe against Hidan, who is also skilled in kenjutsu and wielded a large scythe in comparison to Kakashi's kunai. I just need these feats to rest my case.
none of those feats put him above someone whos kenjutsu skills was acknowledged by a master swordsman whos also the samurai leader. when he is able to take on someone as skilled as bee was without his sharingan then you might have a case but you dont..
I'll take that as a concession, then?
sure.
Lol, they were engaging in a taijutsu fight inside the genjutsu, but ok. He still got clowned, and he'll get clowned against an opponent of similar skill without the curse mark.
yes, buts its not real so it isnt any evidence as to how the clash would play out. the mere fact you are mentioning it after i already disproved it indicates grasping. there was no clowning.
...Ok, so we're just going to deny what the manga tells us. Got it.
deny what exactly?
If someone is superior to somebody else in a certain category in a fight, then the former will use that to his/her advantage.
except if that persons superiority isnt worlds apart to the point were it would make a difference then its not worth mentioning especially if the other opponent has what it takes to put down the latter and the brains to utilize it perfectly then it becomes a moot point.
I know Sasuke is also a good analyzer and tactician, like I already acknoweldged. Doesn't change my point because Kakashi is >>>>>>>>>>> than Sasuke in this aspect, so the former will be at a disadvantage, like I just explained. It'd only be a non factor if the gap between them is close... which it certainly is not in this case.
except the gap isnt that large, at least not by feats which i gave. when sasuke(especially at hebi days) is shown to always think and come up with plans then trying to say he would be downed by intelligence is nonsense. against itachi he skillfully lured him outside so he can use his amaterasu and set up itachi, all unknown to the latter. drop this intelligence point, its not helping your case. he has more than enough to give him a victory here so i simply dont see him being defeated as a result of being outsmarted, not happening.
Again, we're going to deny the manga. Kakashi stalemated Obito, who managed to control the Kyuubi, and that was the only feat I really needed to be honest. I just threw in the Yagura example as a plus.
whos denying the manga? i already shat on your logic so repeating it doesnt make it more valid. but even then sasuke stalemated itachi whos the most skilled and broke tsukuyomi. that>>what kakashi did so it works both ways.
Kakashi and Obito having the same eyes is of no consequence, unless you can prove otherwise.
i already did. sharingan sees through genjutsu
fact
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especially when they are similar playing field like 3t against 3t or ms against ms. it becomes a non factor.
Casting and breaking genjutsu more or less go hand in hand. To cast good illusions, you need to be able to break good illusions, or else it'd be contradictatory. Also, the "fodder" Kakashi instantly put to sleep were agents of Danzō's Root, so let's not downplay that feat eithe
true for the first part but my point was matching obitos genjutsu doesnt mean he can perform similar genjutsu feats to obito if used on another opponent. genjutsu becomes non factor however if they both face themselves. Lol not downplaying it but its nowhere near enough to say hes better than sasuke.
Really, your logic is missing here because
1. Deidara trained his eye to see through genjutsu and countered by feinting Sasuke with a nendo bunshin. He expected Sasuke to use it.
my point was sasuke was able to catch him from that range, said nothing about it not being broken.
2. Danzō didn't have Shisui's eye activated at the time, so he didn't see through the genjutsu, which he would have done if such were the case.
doesnt change the fact that he was tricked. he still didnt know he was under genjutsu and this is a guy who has some massive experience and seeing as how a vital member of his organization is probably the best genjutsu user, in the show its safe to say he would have some form of knowledge on how to break genjutsu but he didnt even know he was in one. thats how skillfully sasuke utilized it and kakashi has nothing on that level.
3. Sasuke needed the influence of the curse mark to break Tsukuyomi.
based on what exactly? no evidence provided. even if that is the case, this thread is hebi sasuke so he has his cursemark. you stated kakashi has better genjutsu than him so you are not helping your case with this point.
4. Obito doesn't have a MS genjutsu technique, and Kakashi didn't use the MS to counter it. I never once used the MS in any of the feats that I've showed.
my bad, thought they used their MS but ive checked it and yh it was 3t. fine then you can ignore sasukes MS genjutsu feats which i stated. still doesnt mean kakashi is better though as his brawl with obito is similar to sasukes brawl with itachi except sasuke breaking tsukuyomi as well as taming a boss snake and reversing oros dimension shows he has better 3t feats overall.
Fair enough in regards to Shee, but Root agents are just as specialized as he is, so I don't know how that point helps you. Not to mention that he was caught off guard. Also, sharingan genjutsu is >>>> orthodox genjutsu using hand seals before you say that Shee is a genjutsu user and a medic.
it helps, caught off guard isnt an excuse but you can forget about it as its 3t feats only. thought Kakashi and obitos scuffle was with MS but i was wrong.(not that kakashi even has any MS genjutsu feats)
At the time I thought this debate was going to devolve itself into us yelling at each other, so that's why I posted it. It matters because it decreases the quality of one's posts. You call me a troll, I prove you wrong, and you end up looking like an idiot, simple as that.
ok then.
I didn't use feats with the mangekyō sharingan, but ok.
yeah my bad.
already tired while writing this so any errors or false info on my part is due to that. dont think ill respond again tho
