Kakashi should have defeated Deva Pein

[Mystery God]

lol you are speculting. Kakashi was able to Kamui Sasuke's Susano arrows in quick succesion, it was pretty fast.. Deva Pein would have known what hit him if Kakashi had used Kamui

Why didn't he Kumui Sasuke or any other foe he has ever faced after that. It is plot, believe me.....

 

[The Necromancer]

He had the other 5 paths to think about as well. He couldn't go wasting chakra all willy nilly.

 

[Mystery God]

Who cares about using it on large things ? Most opponents aren't that large. He can use it on people and on jutsus.

By the way, Shinra tensei can't push Kamui... It's not a projectile. It's a tear in the fabric of space and time. Deva can't dodge that....

I was not saying that Shinra Tensei could push Kumui but it could push Kakashi. If its strength was able to push 3 giant toads several Km's away and break their bone, would it be the death of Kakashi.

 

[raziel777]

He had the other 5 paths to think about as well. He couldn't go wasting chakra all willy nilly.

He wasted plenty of chakra. Tons of Raikiri, the doton jutsu and Raiton clone. He could have spared some for Kamui. He used 2 with less than half chakra (the nail and the missile)

 

[raziel777]

I was not saying that Shinra Tensei could push Kumui but it could push Kakashi. If its strength was able to push 3 giant toads several Km's away and break their bone, would it be the death of Kakashi.

I doubt Pein could have used Shinra Tensei. Kamui is extremely fast. Too fast for Deva to react to. He didn't even see Kakshi use it on the nail while he was directly facing Kakashi. He would have never known what hit him. Think about it, he's using Bansho Tenin on what he thinks is the real Kakashi (but it's a clone) the real one had plenty of time to use Kamui, Deva was using Bansho at that point, h couldn't have reacted to something he wasn't expecting

 

[hokutoshinken]

He was doing pretty good until Choji's familly ruined the fight since he now had to babysitting them and gave his life to save choji...

He had them defeated because:

- Asura was paralysed by the raiton kage bunshin
- Deva already used Banshou tenin, so he couldn't use it force for 5s.
- Paths weren't aware of Kakashi's location, so a sneaky attack from Kakashi was highly possible there.

His back up plan was probably sneaking behind them with Raikiri(we see Raikiri in his hand). It's how he wanted to defeat them and it should have work since like i've said, Asura was paralysed when Deva couldn't use his techniques anymore

Also Gai wasn't on village and Deva was the akatsuki "leader" so Kishi couln't let Kakashi win so easily, it was Naruto's job.

 

[Jako98146]

Kakashi was limited by plot-no-jutsu

 

[grenwood]

Am I the only one who feels that way ? His Kamui could have beaten Deva Pein anytime...

actaully deva path is one of the few beings that could actaully dodge kamui. did you see how fast edo nagato moved when he used shinra tensei to speedblitz? he had to have been at least as fast as kcm naruto who is faster then raikage who is fast enough to dodge amaterasu which is just as fast or faster then kamui. it might have been possible if he trapped deva path somehow, even for just a second or two at the same exact time he used kamui. maybe his dogs could have held deva path for a second or two while kakashi kamuied deva paths head off. but a deva path that is free to move about could possibly dodge. however, judging by what we've seen from kakashi during the war which in naruto time is like 2 or 3 days after that fight, he should have definitely had a better fight and possibly even won even if kamui wouldnt work. and im talking about kakashis war feats since before naruto got bm, everything after naruto got bm was done with kuramas power and not kakashis.

 

[raziel777]

actaully deva path is one of the few beings that could actaully dodge kamui. did you see how fast edo nagato moved when he used shinra tensei to speedblitz? he had to have been at least as fast as kcm naruto who is faster then raikage who is fast enough to dodge amaterasu which is just as fast or faster then kamui. it might have been possible if he trapped deva path somehow, even for just a second or two at the same exact time he used kamui. maybe his dogs could have held deva path for a second or two while kakashi kamuied deva paths head off. but a deva path that is free to move about could possibly dodge. however, judging by what we've seen from kakashi during the war which in naruto time is like 2 or 3 days after that fight, he should have definitely had a better fight and possibly even won even if kamui wouldnt work. and im talking about kakashis war feats since before naruto got bm, everything after naruto got bm was done with kuramas power and not kakashis.

Wow you can't be serious man... As fast as KCM ? Sage mode speed rapes Deva. And dude, that was the anime making the fight more interesting, the fight didnt happen like that. Deva can't dodge Kamui..

I was not saying that Shinra Tensei could push Kumui but it could push Kakashi. If its strength was able to push 3 giant toads several Km's away and break their bone, would it be the death of Kakashi.

I doubt Pein could have used Shinra Tensei. Kamui is extremely fast. Too fast for Deva to react to. He didn't even see Kakshi use it on the nail while he was directly facing Kakashi. He would have never known what hit him. Think about it, he's using Bansho Tenin on what he thinks is the real Kakashi (but it's a clone) the real one had plenty of time to use Kamui, Deva was using Bansho at that point, h couldn't have reacted to something he wasn't expecting

 

[raziel777]

He was doing pretty good until Choji's familly ruined the fight since he now had to babysitting them and gave his life to save choji...

He had them defeated because:

- Asura was paralysed by the raiton kage bunshin
- Deva already used Banshou tenin, so he couldn't use it force for 5s.
- Paths weren't aware of Kakashi's location, so a sneaky attack from Kakashi was highly possible there.

His back up plan was probably sneaking behind them with Raikiri(we see Raikiri in his hand). It's how he wanted to defeat them and it should have work since like i've said, Asura was paralysed when Deva couldn't use his techniques anymore

Also Gai wasn't on village and Deva was the akatsuki "leader" so Kishi couln't let Kakashi win so easily, it was Naruto's job.

Yeah, that would have worked too. He would have taken one of them down with the raikiri in his hand.

 

[Daien]

Kakashi was limited by plot-no-jutsu

Lol. Good one.

I think this kind of thing happens a lot in extended stories like Naruto.

 

[grenwood]

Wow you can't be serious man... As fast as KCM ? Sage mode speed rapes Deva. And dude, that was the anime making the fight more interesting, the fight didnt happen like that. Deva can't dodge Kamui..



I doubt Pein could have used Shinra Tensei. Kamui is extremely fast. Too fast for Deva to react to. He didn't even see Kakshi use it on the nail while he was directly facing Kakashi. He would have never known what hit him. Think about it, he's using Bansho Tenin on what he thinks is the real Kakashi (but it's a clone) the real one had plenty of time to use Kamui, Deva was using Bansho at that point, h couldn't have reacted to something he wasn't expecting

no the speedblitz happened in the manga too. and just because deva path didnt use shinra tensei that way in the konoha battle doesnt mean he couldnt. also i dont think i even saw the anime battle of edo nagato. anyway deva path can definitely do that because edo nagato did that using deva paths power. also deva path i didnt see any deva speed feats period vs sage mode naruto because he wasnt trying to be fast. look at deva paths battle against 6 tails naruto thats where you'll find your speed feats for that battle. also im pretty sure 6 tails naruto is faster than sm naruto. go reread the edo nagato vs jinuriki fight and tell me the deva path speed feats dont show he was that fast. he even speedblitzed naruto although that couldve just as easily been naruto being stupid and taking it easy but theres no proof of that. either way i agree that kakashi shouldve gotten way closer to beating deva path or possibly even beat him. it definitely wouldnt have been a one hit ko witth kamui though.

 

[elsepa]

In character? no , kamui doesn't oneshot in character . He still got soloed negative difficult

 

[psukkar]

kahashi cant fight with deva pain bad match up. Kahashi cant spam his jutsu pain can and its quite dangerous to fight deva pain, he literally can do what he wants most of the time. also that other pain was there too, there weren't any openings with the barrage of attacks. not to mention kahashi was playing defensive to learn about the techs that wasted chakra for him and he hasn't got much.

imagine he rushed into this fight he would have died quickly, oh wait he died but slowly that time when he figured it out.

 

[Geeserock]

You r really suggesting that Kakashi was stronger than Deva Path. The one path which fought 6-tails Naruto and destroyed the entire village in one blow.
Lets reverse the scenario, Kakashi starts kumuing Deva Path, he uses Almighty push, the entire village is destroyed and the kumui was unsuccessful. Even Deidara didn't die from Kumui. I think Kumui only works well on large bodies if the person is willingly transported or else it takes time.

Well, the fight with Deidara, he never tried to kill him at the first place. Perhaps it is not his style to kill anybody without giving him last chance. Moreover, he perfected Kamui a lot after that fight. Look at the fight with Zabuza. He tried to change his mind first. He never fight to kill. Just like other good heroes do. So, I believe if he fight to kill he could have achieved a lot than he has achieved now.

 

[Armathyx]

You r really suggesting that Kakashi was stronger than Deva Path. The one path which fought 6-tails Naruto and destroyed the entire village in one blow.
Lets reverse the scenario, Kakashi starts kumuing Deva Path, he uses Almighty push, the entire village is destroyed and the kumui was unsuccessful. Even Deidara didn't die from Kumui. I think Kumui only works well on large bodies if the person is willingly transported or else it takes time.

kakashi and Gai fought 6 tails everything while Naruto kept Obito busy during the final battle.

 

[Takos]

He was doing pretty good until Choji's familly ruined the fight since he now had to babysitting them and gave his life to save choji...

He had them defeated because:

- Asura was paralysed by the raiton kage bunshin
- Deva already used Banshou tenin, so he couldn't use it force for 5s.
- Paths weren't aware of Kakashi's location, so a sneaky attack from Kakashi was highly possible there.

His back up plan was probably sneaking behind them with Raikiri(we see Raikiri in his hand). It's how he wanted to defeat them and it should have work since like i've said, Asura was paralysed when Deva couldn't use his techniques anymore

Also Gai wasn't on village and Deva was the akatsuki "leader" so Kishi couln't let Kakashi win so easily, it was Naruto's job.

This.

Kakashi would have defeated Deva if the other path didn't arrive.
But even then Kakashi would have taken out that other path with Raikiri if Choza didn't interfere. If the path was hit with raikiri rather than a huge fist, it would almost certainly die.

And then it would be 1v1 of Kakashi and Deva. Would Kakashi win with chakra remaining less than a half? I don't know. Maybe not. But at least he would have got out of this fight alive, since he wouldn't need to save Choji's ass.

As for Kamui - Kakashi still wasn't at his current level of proficiency with it.

 

[psukkar]

kakashi and Gai fought 6 tails everything while Naruto kept Obito busy during the final battle.

so imagine what deva pain can do to the 6 tailed beasts

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

Plot - he should have just use Kamui to take his head off from the start. He was right next to him when he stopped Deva Path killing Iruka

 

[Takos]

so imagine what deva pain can do to the 6 tailed beasts

*chuckle* It doesn't work this way.
Kakashi has simply gotten better.
He held his own alone against 4 edo jinchuuriki in V2 with Sharingan and Rinnegan.
Of course V2 that Deva fought was stronger than any of these jins. Or I'd say it would be stronger if we were talking about normal jins, but these:
-are immortal
-have a shared vision (Rinnegan)
-have increased perception and dodging abilities (Sharingan)

Plus, Kakashi faced 4 of them at the same time after already having fought for an entire day elsewhere, whereas Orochimaru (albeit handicapped, true) could not handle one mortal V2 jin without Rinnegan or Sharingan.


There is literally nothing to suggest current Kakashi would not be able to keep up or defeat 6-tailed Naruto, even without resorting to Kamui.

Plot - he should have just use Kamui to take his head off from the start. He was right next to him when he stopped Deva Path killing Iruka

Plot is NEVER an excuse. Even if plot was the "outside" reason for Kakashi not using Kamui back then, there must always be an in-universe reason as well. If there's not, we take the most plausible explanation.

In this case there are two plausible explanations I can think of, though they overlap:
-He still didn't have his Kamui perfected back then
-He knew there were 6 bodies and that he couldn't possibly kamui all of them (though it would mean as well he didn't have his Kamui perfected yet, since current Kakashi would be capable of using Kamui 6 times with ease) so he wanted to try and handle as much as he could without MS