Kakashi/Gai vs Gokage

[EliteKakashi]

But they will .

Kaguya was speed blitzed by both Naruto and Kakashi.
JJ Madara was speed blitzed by Might Guy .

kakashi would easily be blitzed by V2 Ay

This is manga so nerfing and plot hole is there.

Same goes for long range Kamui it was restricted against Kakuzu,Hidan and Pain.

Kaguya was invincible, only vulnerable to seals. And Kakashi blitzed her because he had Rikoudou chakra + Obito's chakra. So he was practically 3 people in 1. Naruto had the tailed beasts inside of him. Sasuke had that instantaneous/transportation shit. So yes, people like that can "blitz", but they're not even your average high-kage level opponent. They're on god-like levels.

Same goes for Gai who had to open up the gate that ends his life to achieve that speed, and while Naruto saved his life, achieving that speed for the 4-5 minutes that he did, or whatever it was, ended his mobility.

Ay isn't on the levels you mentioned.

 

[LuckyMan]

With full intel, Kakashi can set up bunshin feints or even have Gai intercept Ay.

It's foolish to assume people of high level are simply going to be blitzed. There's a reason Kumogakure didn't just ****ing rape everyone with Ay and his father blitzing all the time.

KCM Naruto couldn't even make a clone before Ay was about to hit him and that was just his hand speed bro......

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

Kaguya was invincible, only vulnerable to seals. And Kakashi blitzed her because he had Rikoudou chakra + Obito's chakra. So he was practically 3 people in 1. Naruto had the tailed beasts inside of him. Sasuke had that instantaneous/transportation shit. So yes, people like that can "blitz", but they're not even your average high-kage level opponent. They're on god-like levels.

Same goes for Gai who had to open up the gate that ends his life to achieve that speed, and while Naruto saved his life, achieving that speed for the 4-5 minutes that he did, or whatever it was, ended his mobility.

Ay isn't on the levels you mentioned.

Kakashi reaction speed and foot speed is nowhere near Kaguya and JJ Madara and he couldn´d physicly react to susanoo arrow so he can´t dodge V2 blitz not even close

 

[EliteKakashi]

KCM Naruto couldn't even make a clone before Ay was about to hit him and that was just his hand speed bro......

You mention that, yet don't mention that Bee easily intercepted his punch? Not to mention that punch was at point blank range, and wasn't actually a speed feat at all?

Ay's fast, but lets not go making up feats.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Kakashi reaction speed and foot speed is nowhere near Kaguya and JJ Madara and he couldn´d physicly react to susanoo arrow so he can´t dodge V2 blitz not even close

Kakashi's kamui reacted to susanoo arrows at 20-ish meters:

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And that was with him being completely taken by surprise, as he had no intel on what Sasuke's susanoo could do.

40 meters with full intel?

Hell, there's nothing stopping Kakashi saying **** it and just sniping Ay right off the bat..so, with full intel, Kakashi can properly deduce whether or not he could react(and I don't see why he couldn't), and if there's any worry at all, he just gets rid of Ay at the start, before he can activate raiton cloak, before Mei can use mist, or before the kages can so much as think about what they're going to do.

 

[KingHashirama]

Gokage low-mid diff.


None of them are Edo Madara.

 

[LuckyMan]

You mention that, yet don't mention that Bee easily intercepted his punch? Not to mention that punch was at point blank range, and wasn't actually a speed feat at all?

Ay's fast, but lets not go making up feats.

Its a speed feat that falls under hand speed. If Ay can land punches before someone like KCM Naruto have time to make Shadow Clones the odds of Kakashi making clones in that same situation is slim to none. It being point blank means nothing because when he blitzes Kakashi, it'll end up the same situation which is Ay in his face.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

Kakashi's kamui reacted to susanoo arrows at 20-ish meters:

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And that was with him being completely taken by surprise, as he had no intel on what Sasuke's susanoo could do.

40 meters with full intel?

Hell, there's nothing stopping Kakashi saying **** it and just sniping Ay right off the bat..so, with full intel, Kakashi can properly deduce whether or not he could react(and I don't see why he couldn't), and if there's any worry at all, he just gets rid of Ay at the start, before he can activate raiton cloak, before Mei can use mist, or before the kages can so much as think about what they're going to do.

with full intel raikage also would know all about kamui so your point is stupid.

distance can be covered and then blitz can be used. Deal with it Kakashi isn´t reacting to V2 Raikage speed

 

[EliteKakashi]

with full intel raikage also would know all about kamui so your point is stupid.

distance can be covered and then blitz can be used. Deal with it Kakashi isn´t reacting to V2 Raikage speed

Knowing about something doesn't give him the reaction speed for it. He has to activate up to the v2 cloak and then move. Kamui works much faster than that.

The only person on the kage's team that can react to kamui from the jump is Gaara, because his sand instantly protects him. However, he'd have to move the sand to protect Ay and the others, and the kamui snipe would be over by that point.

You've yet to prove how he gets to Kakashi quickly enough to kill him without him or Gai reacting, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Its a speed feat that falls under hand speed. If Ay can land punches before someone like KCM Naruto have time to make Shadow Clones the odds of Kakashi making clones in that same situation is slim to none. It being point blank means nothing because when he blitzes Kakashi, it'll end up the same situation which is Ay in his face.

So lemme get this straight.

Base Bee > v2 Ay > KCM Naruto's handseal speed.

Is that what we're deducing here?

Any bit of impressiveness that punch might have had is ruined by Bee intercepting it at point blank range. Gai and Kakashi both have the speed feats to match Base Bee, meaning they too can react and intercept or avoid this punch.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

Knowing about something doesn't give him the reaction speed for it. He has to activate up to the v2 cloak and then move. Kamui works much faster than that.

The only person on the kage's team that can react to kamui from the jump is Gaara, because his sand instantly protects him. However, he'd have to move the sand to protect Ay and the others, and the kamui snipe would be over by that point.

You've yet to prove how he gets to Kakashi quickly enough to kill him without him or Gai reacting, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



So lemme get this straight.

Base Bee > v2 Ay > KCM Naruto's handseal speed.

Is that what we're deducing here?

Any bit of impressiveness that punch might have had is ruined by Bee intercepting it at point blank range. Gai and Kakashi both have the speed feats to match Base Bee, meaning they too can react and intercept or avoid this punch.

if Kamui warping have that speed like you are represanting, Kakashi would be invicible.

 

[EliteKakashi]

if Kamui warping have that speed like you are represanting, Kakashi would be invicible.

He pretty much is when it comes to fighting people that aren't massively stronger than him, when combined with his war arc stamina reserves that allowed him to use 8 raikiri, 5 kamui, 2 shadow clones and a doton wall before running out of chakra and receiving some from Kurama. That's why most debate threads with Kakashi either restrict Kamui(or at least offensive kamui), or pit him against one of the few people in the manga that have the means to defend against it.

 

[LuckyMan]

Knowing about something doesn't give him the reaction speed for it. He has to activate up to the v2 cloak and then move. Kamui works much faster than that.

The only person on the kage's team that can react to kamui from the jump is Gaara, because his sand instantly protects him. However, he'd have to move the sand to protect Ay and the others, and the kamui snipe would be over by that point.

You've yet to prove how he gets to Kakashi quickly enough to kill him without him or Gai reacting, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



So lemme get this straight.

Base Bee > v2 Ay > KCM Naruto's handseal speed.

Is that what we're deducing here?

Any bit of impressiveness that punch might have had is ruined by Bee intercepting it at point blank range. Gai and Kakashi both have the speed feats to match Base Bee, meaning they too can react and intercept or avoid this punch.

Bro, I'm taking about V2 Ay blitzing Kakashi with his shunshin, which I don't believe Kakashi will be able to react. I already explained to you how Kakashi could not dodge Susanoo Arrows which he claimed were "way too fast" and he was forced to use Kamui so how can he react to let alone avoid something (Ay) moving way faster than those arrows were? Not only that but Sasukes MS couldn't even follow Ay so Kakashi seeing Ay coming, let alone reacting, and let alone avoiding him is flat out ridiculous. He'll be gone before his eyes and appear right behind like he did Sasuke but this time hes not stopping and nothing is saving Kakashi from losing his neck.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Bro, I'm taking about V2 Ay blitzing Kakashi with his shunshin, which I don't believe Kakashi will be able to react. I already explained to you how Kakashi could not dodge Susanoo Arrows which he claimed were "way too fast" and he was forced to use Kamui so how can he react to let alone avoid something (Ay) moving way faster than those arrows were? Not only that but Sasukes MS couldn't even follow Ay so Kakashi seeing Ay coming, let alone reacting, and let alone avoiding him is flat out ridiculous. He'll be gone before his eyes and appear right behind like he did Sasuke but this time hes not stopping and nothing is saving Kakashi from losing his neck.

What you're trying to tell me is that Ay is going to activate both versions of his raiton cloak and blitz in a 40 meter distance before Kakashi can use a bunshin feint or other tactics, against a Kakashi that has full intel. Which is simply wrong.

You're comparing this to a 20 meter away susanoo arrow that Kakashi wasn't expecting at all. That's a fail comparison.

 

[Lariatoo]

Hmm..
I don't know...
Im going with the Gokage...
Backpack Ay can probably tag Gai, and a Gaara powered up by Tsunade can probably defend the team against Kamui snipe.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Just as a note, I agree the Gokage ultimately take it.

But the blitzing is nonsense at this distance, with this intel, in this scenario.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Gokage low-mid diff.


None of them are Edo Madara.

Because in some bizzaro world you have to be edo madara to beat Gokage..... Lmfao your reasoning always brings mirth to me

 

[Selan]

Gai and Kakashi literally rape the hell out of the Gokage. They are on a completely different level.

 

[EZQ]

If Ay manages to speedblitz kakashi with an elbow to the face before he starts kamui sniping everyone then the gokage win. But don't forget Gai is there. Gai can keep up with ay's movements at least for enough time for kakashi to warp gaara and oonoki away, wich are the most dangerous, after that the raikage is warped away with kamui too since it works faster than summoning jutsu and then the females get ass raped.

 

[ARGUS]

Gokage win this, mid diff

 

[-immortal-]

Teak 1 wins