Kaguya or Madara: who's better at manipulation?

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Madara's feats at manipulation:

Well, he has a long list:

Firstly, he managed to fool Hashirama and the shinobi world into thinking that he was dead.

You must be registered for see images

He achieved control over Kirigakure a lot before Obito did.

And by the way, manipulated Rin to be killed and trigger evil in Obito's heart.......

You must be registered for see images

Coming to one of his most important feats: creating Akatsuki and the Nagato we know, who would latter fulfill his goal: destroy Konoha and revive him (even if it wasn't exactly as he planned).

You must be registered for see images

Coming to Kaguya, well, I would consider she is quite a manipulator IF we consider that Black Zetsu is her will and has her way of thinking.

You must be registered for see images

And we can confirm that she knows of the circumstances that happened after she was sealed as she knows about Indra and Ashura - her gransdsons.


And let's not forget: she manipulated the clan that could fool anyone with eye powers or intellect - The Uchiha Clan.

You must be registered for see images

So....Who's the better manipulator: Madara or Kaguya?

 

[VVolfVVarrior]

Zetsu played whole world for centuries.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

I'd say madara, being the will of kaguya doesn't necessarily mean he was kaguya, he calls himself her son doesn't he? He was also a hell of a lot smarter than she was from what we saw. So madara if we're talking kaguya sans zetsu

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Zetsu played whole world for centuries.

Yes, that's something I was in doubt when I made this thread, if I would put Kaguya or Black Zetsu.....Kaguya won because she created him.

But yes, Madara got himself as a fool when he thought so high of himself that he said: "Well, I can not be manipulated at this rate", and then this fact became his demise.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

I'd say madara, being the will of kaguya doesn't necessarily mean he was kaguya, he calls himself her son doesn't he? He was also a hell of a lot smarter than she was from what we saw. So madara if we're talking kaguya sans zetsu

Well, Madara is indeed smarter than the Kaguya we saw by miles XD

But at least Kaguya isn't so arrogant to think that she wouldn't need back up (her army of Zetsu) to defeat enemies and reach her goals, don't you think?:wut:

 

[VVolfVVarrior]

Yes, that's something I was in doubt when I made this thread, if I would put Kaguya or Black Zetsu.....Kaguya won because she created him.

But yes, Madara got himself as a fool when he thought so high of himself that he said: "Well, I can not be manipulated at this rate", and then this fact became his demise.

Well Its her creation, her will. It was create to bring her back. I would count it to her.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Well, Madara is indeed smarter than the Kaguya we saw by miles XD

But at least Kaguya isn't so arrogant to think that she wouldn't need back up (her army of Zetsu) to defeat enemies and reach her goals, don't you think?:wut:

What does not being arrogant have to do with being manipulative?

 

[Melanin]

Kaguya was smart enough to leave a peice of herself behind that could insure her complete return and since that extension of herself comes from her actual self, Kaguya>>>>>>>>

 

[Frois]

Madara, as Kaguya herself didn't do most of the manipulating - it was her son, Black Zetsu.

 

[Melanin]

Madara, as Kaguya herself didn't do most of the manipulating - it was her son, Black Zetsu.

He's not her son.. BZ is a manifestation of her will that sees itself as Kaguya's son because she created him.

 

[Frois]

He is her son.

I agree.

 

[Imperious]

Neither Kaguya nor Madara manipulated anyone, ever. Being a figure of power and authority, people simply listened to whatever Kaguya said. She never needed to intentionally control or manipulate anyone. Madara never manipulated anyone either. He shared his thoughts and ideals with Obito, but never did anything to manipulate or control him rather than use logical reasoning that Obito needed to stay in the cave to heal his arm. Black Zetsu manipulated the events that lead to Rin's death, manipulated Obito into creating the Akatsuki. Manipulated almost everything that happened down to Naruto and Sasuke fighting Kaguya. However, I think Madara is more capable of manipulating the mind of others than Kaguya is.​

​

 

[Melanin]

I agree with Rasta.

You should.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

What does not being arrogant have to do with being manipulative?

I agree with you that Madara is more capable of manipulating, but a feat that I would say that Kaguya has and Madara doesn't is being wise enough to not let pride cover your eyes for things that may go wrong in your plans (or Madara has this weakness: he trusts too much in people who apparently are on his side).

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

stealing threads now?...lololololol

OT: kaguya

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Neither Kaguya nor Madara manipulated anyone, ever. Being a figure of power and authority, people simply listened to whatever Kaguya said. She never needed to intentionally control or manipulate anyone. Madara never manipulated anyone either. He shared his thoughts and ideals with Obito, but never did anything to manipulate or control him rather than use logical reasoning that Obito needed to stay in the cave to heal his arm. Black Zetsu manipulated the events that lead to Rin's death, manipulated Obito into creating the Akatsuki. Manipulated almost everything that happened down to Naruto and Sasuke fighting Kaguya. However, I think Madara is more capable of manipulating the mind of others than Kaguya is.​

​

I agree completely, I mean, he was so good at it he could teach it lol

You must be registered for see images

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

stealing threads now?...lololololol

OT: kaguya

Oh goodness, of couse not lolololol, this was running through my head all day. I mean Madara deserves a thread to honor his intellect feats ekoms2:

 

[Frois]

Sorry, but I've come to the realization that all of my arguments are invalid, and Tenten is the true NB god whom I shall sacrifice my children to.

Good.

 

[deidara8621]

Definitely Kaguya, because she was the one that created Black zetsu, and Black zetsu manipulated madara!

 

[Imperious]

I agree completely, I mean, he was so good at it he could teach it lol

You must be registered for see images

Madara said a good amount of that just to hurt Obito, but most of it was not true. Madara did not pick Obito, as he was old, immobilized, and stuck underground. Black Zetsu chose Obito, planted darkness in his heart by manipulating the events leading to Rin's death, and then proceeded to be by Obito's side for the rest of his life, teaching him how to manipulate others or doing it for him. Hell, they say that whenever Tobi acted like a goofball it was really White Zetsu, and whenever he acted seriously it was Obito. But I disagree. Whenever Tobi acted seriously, and began claiming to be Madara Uchiha, it was not Obito but rather Black Zetsu. At a certain point, Obito stopped using White Zetsu to become Tobi and started using Black Zetsu to become Madara.​

​