KAGUYA OOTSUTSUKI Fantheory 2016

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Kaguya Ootsutsuki was not the final villain of Naruto. Well, she was. But there's more to it. Let me explain.

[video=youtube;c2GPmZFa0ko]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GPmZFa0ko&ab_channel=SamyulDavis[/video]
 
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great video man, so many people choose to gloss over black zetsu even tho he's this huge character in the series, more relevant than Madara or Kakashi tbh. I dont know whether its bc he's not in the games or a battle nin to wank in VS threads but
 

Vulpini

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Well, I'm okay with the possibility of Kaguya not being the final villain, as long as the new one isn't a Uchiha or Ootsutsuki.
 
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SenseiSama

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The origin of the tree is the final villain, that Rabbit was the source of her power but also the source of her hatred.
 

Cfighter

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Honestly, I still genuinely have no idea what happened in that final arc of Naruto. Kishi really rushed things and quite obviously started making up things as he went along. There is even an interview out there with Kishi where he admitted towards the end of the series [when Madara was at the "height" of his reanimated power] that he had NO IDEA how to the other characters could defeat Madara/how to kill him off.

Around the time of Madaras defeat by BZ, things were already getting shaky with the new information regarding the Sage and his sons. But then Kaguya showed up somehow, BZ was revealed to be a third son of Kaguya [I think], basically everything from Madara's defeat onward was SO rushed and obviously had little work put into it I couldn't follow it at all. These are some genuine questions that I have because I have zero memory of them from the manga: Is kaguya an alien? Was she a human who ate the sacred fruit, or an alien that had powers? Didn't Kaguya say she was the tree itself? Then what the f*ck is the Juubi? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? If Kaguya is the tree, then what was sealed on the moon? If Kaguya is the Juubi, then why was there a tree? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? What was the point of the fruit if Kaguya was either the tree or the Juubi? What was the deal with the villains from Boruto? Were they of the same race as Kaguya? Then why did they want the fruit? Why was Kaguya a rabbit?

Do you see what I mean? This is the largest reason why I HATED THE KAGUYA ARC.
 

Vanto

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Honestly, I still genuinely have no idea what happened in that final arc of Naruto. Kishi really rushed things and quite obviously started making up things as he went along. There is even an interview out there with Kishi where he admitted towards the end of the series [when Madara was at the "height" of his reanimated power] that he had NO IDEA how to the other characters could defeat Madara/how to kill him off.

Around the time of Madaras defeat by BZ, things were already getting shaky with the new information regarding the Sage and his sons. But then Kaguya showed up somehow, BZ was revealed to be a third son of Kaguya [I think], basically everything from Madara's defeat onward was SO rushed and obviously had little work put into it I couldn't follow it at all. These are some genuine questions that I have because I have zero memory of them from the manga: Is kaguya an alien? Was she a human who ate the sacred fruit, or an alien that had powers? Didn't Kaguya say she was the tree itself? Then what the f*ck is the Juubi? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? If Kaguya is the tree, then what was sealed on the moon? If Kaguya is the Juubi, then why was there a tree? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? What was the point of the fruit if Kaguya was either the tree or the Juubi? What was the deal with the villains from Boruto? Were they of the same race as Kaguya? Then why did they want the fruit? Why was Kaguya a rabbit?

Do you see what I mean? This is the largest reason why I HATED THE KAGUYA ARC.

Not defending but here we go.

Kaguya was from a "foreign land". It can means either a far-away continent or another planet entirely, or even the moon. A continent full of horned people would've been noticed.

She wasn't an human to begin with, since she had horns before eating the fruit (unless it's a fancy crown), maybe she was an alien with no powers or maybe said powers weren't strong enough to end the war.

She is the tree, she fused with it to kill her sons and get her chakra back. The Juubi is the result of the fusion dance of Kaguya and the Shinju.

No, it started out as a non-sentient (IIRC), humongous tree that grew with the blood shed by combatants during the war. It was content with being a tree.

The fruit was there before Kaguya even fused with the Shinju.

They wanted to get power, she seemingly made her army to fight them so maybe they wanted to conquer the world or steal her chakra.

Yes, they have the same name, the same pale skin, the Byakugan and the horn. As for their chakra manipulation, Shinjus exist in other planets.

For moar powah.

Kaguya wasn't a rabbit, it's mostly because of her horns. The rabbit transformation is more of a degenerate transformation than anything.
 

Cfighter

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Not defending but here we go.

Kaguya was from a "foreign land". It can means either a far-away continent or another planet entirely, or even the moon. A continent full of horned people would've been noticed.

She wasn't an human to begin with, since she had horns before eating the fruit (unless it's a fancy crown), maybe she was an alien with no powers or maybe said powers weren't strong enough to end the war.

She is the tree, she fused with it to kill her sons and get her chakra back. The Juubi is the result of the fusion dance of Kaguya and the Shinju.

No, it started out as a non-sentient (IIRC), humongous tree that grew with the blood shed by combatants during the war. It was content with being a tree.

The fruit was there before Kaguya even fused with the Shinju.

They wanted to get power, she seemingly made her army to fight them so maybe they wanted to conquer the world or steal her chakra.

Yes, they have the same name, the same pale skin, the Byakugan and the horn. As for their chakra manipulation, Shinjus exist in other planets.

For moar powah.

Kaguya wasn't a rabbit, it's mostly because of her horns. The rabbit transformation is more of a degenerate transformation than anything.

I appreciate your explanation, and I think I get what was happening now. With that said, the whole thing was still a mess. What you explained honestly would have been more interesting/relevant if it was made into it's own manga, because it just did not work in the context of Naruto - or at the very least it wold have needed another 20-50 chapters to REALLY get into detail what had happened.
 

Vanto

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Yeah, Kaguya was introduced pretty hastily and that's why her story doesn't, honestly, make much sense. A spin-off or at least some flashbacks on her life much earlier would've been good.
 

davidou

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Honestly, I still genuinely have no idea what happened in that final arc of Naruto. Kishi really rushed things and quite obviously started making up things as he went along. There is even an interview out there with Kishi where he admitted towards the end of the series [when Madara was at the "height" of his reanimated power] that he had NO IDEA how to the other characters could defeat Madara/how to kill him off.

Around the time of Madaras defeat by BZ, things were already getting shaky with the new information regarding the Sage and his sons. But then Kaguya showed up somehow, BZ was revealed to be a third son of Kaguya [I think], basically everything from Madara's defeat onward was SO rushed and obviously had little work put into it I couldn't follow it at all. These are some genuine questions that I have because I have zero memory of them from the manga: Is kaguya an alien? Was she a human who ate the sacred fruit, or an alien that had powers? Didn't Kaguya say she was the tree itself? Then what the f*ck is the Juubi? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? If Kaguya is the tree, then what was sealed on the moon? If Kaguya is the Juubi, then why was there a tree? Wasn't the Juubi the tree? What was the point of the fruit if Kaguya was either the tree or the Juubi? What was the deal with the villains from Boruto? Were they of the same race as Kaguya? Then why did they want the fruit? Why was Kaguya a rabbit?

Do you see what I mean? This is the largest reason why I HATED THE KAGUYA ARC.


Don't take that crazy woman's statement as a fact.
We saw a draw of Kaguya eating the fruit of the god tree.
Kaguya isn't the tree, because mangafact>Kaguya's statements.

For Momoshiki and Kinshiki, they were Ootsutsuki like Kaguya and it seems that they were going from planet to planet to harvest chakra fruits of other god trees.
Momoshiki's final transformation was one shotted by an accademy student that just failed his exams to become a genin...
Do you really think he would be a threat to Kaguya?
What if Kaguya feared Momo and Kin's leader? Momo and Kin being harvest men, their leader having a good amount of big chakra fruits in store, he would probably be a big threat to Kaguya.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Yeah, Kaguya was introduced pretty hastily and that's why her story doesn't, honestly, make much sense. A spin-off or at least some flashbacks on her life much earlier would've been good.

I'm amazed the 2 following movies dared to have more Ootsutsuki villains too without much exposition or explanation. The Last just added MORE unexplained mythos around them without really answering any of it whilst Boruto's villains they just got lazy with.
 

Seventh Sama

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Someone give me a tl;dr. I cant watch it on my phone.
 

Vanto

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I'm amazed the 2 following movies dared to have more Ootsutsuki villains too without much exposition or explanation. The Last just added MORE unexplained mythos around them without really answering any of it whilst Boruto's villains they just got lazy with.

To be honest, Ootsutsukis are the only ones who can match the two MCs now. Anyone else being able to even inconvenience them would be laughable.
 

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Black Zetsu was guy so he's definitely different even when you played Storm 4 in Dub , his voice tone sounds too deep which doesn't correlate with Kaguya voice so Black Zetsu is another entity upon from being born or being a creation.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Black Zetsu was guy so he's definitely different even when you played Storm 4 in Dub , his voice tone sounds too deep which doesn't correlate with Kaguya voice so Black Zetsu is another entity upon from being born or being a creation.

That's a little literal, remember Kaguya has a giant son complex. (It's her only real established character trait) Her making a son that doesn't betray her matches v. nicely. She's the mother of chakra, a mother in general.

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Plus in FMA, Father's Homonculus are all different voices, personalities and genders.
 

Seventh Sama

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Thanks for the tl;dr guys...
But i finally got to watch it and i have to disagree with it. Kaguya has a mind of her own, she wasn't "taking orders" from bz. More like getting advice since she herself has little to no battle sense, while BZ has a thousand years of knowledge on shinobi combat.
That's all i gotta say.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Thanks for the tl;dr guys...
But i finally got to watch it and i have to disagree with it. Kaguya has a mind of her own, she wasn't "taking orders" from bz. More like getting advice since she herself has little to no battle sense, while BZ has a thousand years of knowledge on shinobi combat.
That's all i gotta say.

fair do's, cool avatar btw- love Kuro :p
 

minamoto

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Thanks for the tl;dr guys...
But i finally got to watch it and i have to disagree with it. Kaguya has a mind of her own, she wasn't "taking orders" from bz. More like getting advice since she herself has little to no battle sense, while BZ has a thousand years of knowledge on shinobi combat.
That's all i gotta say.

me dizzagree!
 

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That's a little literal, remember Kaguya has a giant son complex. (It's her only real established character trait) Her making a son that doesn't betray her matches v. nicely. She's the mother of chakra, a mother in general.

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Plus in FMA, Father's Homonculus are all different voices, personalities and genders.

I still think Both Kaguya and Black Zetsu are the mastermind villain however both goes different ways since Kaguya was originally the first one who planned the Infinite Tsukoymi and turn everyone into White Zetsu so that she could nurture her planet and keeps all the chakra.
Black Zetsu was literally born right before Kaguya was sealed and he was ordered to revive her. But Kaguya didn't simply told Black Zetsu "WHAT" or "HOW" to do it. She literally entrusted him in which Black Zetsu devise his own plan and this is when he sets the foundation of Shinobi history which corrupted the system by manipulating everyone FOR CENTURIES in order to bring Kaguya back for that purpose.

When Kaguya was revived, she thought it was Indra and Asura but Black Zetsu corrected her that it was Naruto and Sasuke. Which means she has no knowledge after the Sage of 6th path era or anything about Ninjutsu and she holds no responsible for that mess which her "son" caused.

So in essence I think it all comes down to who made the most accomplishment here in this series. Kaguya made an accomplishment when she had all the chakra and use her power for herself before splitting to her own sons. She also achieved casting Infinite Tsukoymi and made everyone becoming White Zetsu which both Hagoromo and Hamura failed to prevent it.

PROBLEM is that everything takes back in the past and Kaguya was never introduced within the context of the story until near the end of this series.

Black Zetsu probably achieved the most when it comes to demonizing the world which he's able to find someone powerful like Madara who was caught in his bait in which led to the creation of the Akatsuki , however most of it was done indirectly and Black Zetsu in almost every arc had little to no roles and always rely someone so powerful to do the job for him.

I understand why Black Zetsu always being a shady type to hide lurking behind the shadow to record everything which fits his character However Kishi keeps bringing out so many Central Villains that had more impact to the story. First we thought it was Orochimaru, then it was Pain then it was Kabuto then it was Tobi who was Obito and lastly Madara.

Kishi keeps brushing Zetsu to the side so we don't deemed to find him suspicious type character just because of his design and how he act.

It's further reasoning why Suspicious characters are often too predictable in most Anime so if all this was Kishimoto intention then I suppose he KINDA made a smart play but not in a good way since we always had an impression that he was a Minor and most forgetful Character until the end of the series.

Both Black Zetsu and Kaguya intertwined each other, this is how Black Zetsu shows his true color as a powerful threat being under Kaguya sleeve.


Personally I'm always a fan of Zetsu because of how suspicious he was until Pain and then being Madara will which he becomes so irrelevant that I thought it just be me being wishful thinking that he's Final Villain when he was introduced back in Part 1 but then this whole Madara shit happen out of nowhere lol.
 
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