[Theory] Kaguya, Juubi & Shinju | We are all, we are the land!

Shinato

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The Shinju
The Shinju was looked upon as a God, and was said to have created the world. The Shinju itself takes the form a huge tree carrying a single fruit every millennium, or 1000 years. The origins of this tree is still unknown, however we have some solid fact regarding this tree as of right now.

  • Its the origin of the chakra in the Narutoverse.
  • Its the origin of the Juubi.
  • It existed before humans did.

But we, as I've stated have no idea where this tree originated from. However I have a theory of its origin. I think the Shinju was created and originated from Kaguya herself, and that is why she claims that all chakra belongs to her. But if that is true, then why did she create the Shinju and what happen? What was her goal and why does she want an army of Zetsus created by the humans of the earth? Before stating more about the Shinju, lets get over to Kaguya a little.

Princess Kaguya
The earliest evidence we have of her in the Naruto timeline is around the re-growth of the fruit. Now, why would she randomly appear at the exact moment the fruit grew again, unless she knew about it or she couldn't appear before the fruit did. Now this is were the theory starts to be come a little far fetched for some people, so let me try to explain in detail. I still believe that Kaguya comes from another location than the Earth, the place where they are currently fighting in Chapter 680 is what I believe is her home planet/dimension. But as we've seen, its inhabitable and and thus no one lives/exists there any more.

We also know that Kaguya is seeking an army of Zetsus for some unknown goal we have yet to hear about. But why does she need an army if everyone on the planet is under her control? She must have another goal in mind and she does refer to the Earth as "This Earth" rather than simply Earth, meaning she is talking in a form as if there are more "Earths" in existence right now. This is one of the main reasons I believe that she is from another planet. She also refers to "this Earth" as her Nursery, meaning she is growing or giving birth to something using "this Earth" which we know are the Zetsu army she wants.

So I believe that Kaguya came from a different planet with a goal of creating her Zetsu army on "Earth" in order to use them for something on her home planet. Now I believe that Kaguya herself is the Shinju, Juubi and the Fruit but I will get back to that in a split second. What I would first like to point out is that Kaguya was first witnessed a goddess and later a demon. Now, how could this change so drastically? Either she went crazy or something else happen. I believe that she never went crazy, she was simply keeping up an act to make people like her. She was plotting to create every human into Zetsus, but hid it behind a façade of being a strong and kind leader.

Kaguya's Goal
Kaguya's home planet/location has been shown to be inhabitable, and the reason because of this is nature itself. Nature is the one thing no one can deny, not even the gods. Only way to beat nature is with nature itself, as nothing lasts forever and nature will break itself over the course of time. Kaguya is using the Shinju, the Holy Tree, a God to create soldiers of nature, namely White Zetsus. Which has been shown to turn into trees in response to Tailed Beast Chakra. Kaguya holds the chakra of the Shinju, meaning the chakra of the Tailed Beasts and she has the humans who are turning to Zetsus connected to the Shinju. Black Zetsu at a point stated that he was the very land that they stood on, and that he was a lot more powerful than anyone thought. It was proven that Black Zetsu was the will of Kaguya, and not Madara meaning that some, if not all of her traits are visible in Black Zetsu's personality.

That may mean that Kaguya sees herself as the land, the Earth that they stand on. So if that is the case, then in some sense she is the Mother of Nature that created the Earth. The legends speaks however, that this was the work of the Juubi, but not the Shinju. Now we know that legends often are based off some interpretation of the truth, but is often changed over the course of time and mixed with other ideals. So say that Kaguya created the world, which I will describe in detail further down. Now if she created the Earth using her own power and the Shinju. What was her goal in doing so and why didn't she do it on her home planet? Her home planet/location was show to be covered in magma/lava in which it would make it impossible for her to grow a new nature and tree. (Even with her power, nature would fight back.)

So she found a new an empty planet, created the Shinju using herself and started "growing" a new world of nature and people in which she could turn into Zetsus. Upon creating her army of Zetsus, she may aim to get them all back to her home planet/location and use them as trees to battle nature alongside her, to change the course of nature on her home planet and saving it from destruction.

The Shinju ~ Part II
I stated that the Shinju may originate from Kaguya herself, which again means that the Juubi, Fruit and all chakra originates from her as well. Which is why she claims that all chakra belongs to her, because originally it did. Now if she came to "this Earth" in order to plant a tree and grow more, then why did she become a tree herself and what is the fruit and Juubi really? Kaguya comes to "this planet" in a hope to create an army to fight mother nature on her own planet, becoming a sort of "Mother of Nature" herself in the progress.

The Chakra Fruit
What is the fruit? Well, if my theory is correct and the Shinju itself was created from Kaguya and her body then the Fruit is nothing more than an "egg" of the Shinju and function to re-birth Kaguya after enough time has passed in order for her to gain her army and take them back to her home planet. That is why I think she appeared as the fruit did, not because she wanted to eat it, but rather because she was born from it. The way the fruit has been portrayed in as if it was concealing something and was "opening" to reveal that, the size of it also fits with the size of a human person. (If the fruit was as big as Kaguya, then she would have a hard time eating it.)

The Shinju ~ Part III
After Kaguya's rebirth from the fruit, the Shinju died off as Kaguya now held all of its power again. (Meaning that the tree had no power to keep it alive anymore.) With the Shinju dead and gone for now, she needed to find a way to turn everyone into her army of nature. So she started making a plan, the Mugen Tsukuyomi plan and as she was doing so she gave birth to two children whom I will be talking about in a short while. But why didn't Kaguya just leave the Shinju there if she planned on using it later? Well, she may need the powers from the Shinju to actually start her plan, that we don't know and most likely never will.


The Two Sons
Kaguya had two sons, Hagoromo and Hamura. But why did she have them if they weren't a part of her plan? One could argue that she just accidentally had them or that she was lonely and wanted a family. (We know how strong the urge for a family can be, just look at Naruto.) But I also think she was planning on using them for her plan, which is why I think they were thought how to use Chakra by her. I think she wanted to use her sons as medium to connect to everyone in the world, but her plan backfired when her sons didn't share the same ideals as her and rather wanted to connect the world with Ninshuu in order to bring peace. (Rather than creating an army and destroying the world.) Because of this, a battle brought out between the sons and mother, a battle in which one of the sons died.

Juubi & The Battle
I believe that the battle originally started with Kaguya vs Hagoromo & Hamura, mother vs sons. The reason I say this is because in the newest chapter we saw that Kaguya remembered Hagoromo flying and lifting his hand in a motion that I would say is an attack position. If she didn't either fight him or saw him in combat then she wouldn't have had remembered that and it also proves that Kaguya was around when Hagoromo and Hamura was adults. I think the battle started because Kaguya wanted to use the chakra connected to the world in order to make Zetsus, while Hagoromo and Haumra wanted to bring peace and help the world she had created. Now during the battle, I believe that Kaguya either released or lost control over her powers and mutated/transformed in to the Juubi.

One reason that I say this is that it was stated that the Juubi originated from the Shinju and that they were the same being at different times. Another reason I say this is that Kaguya was known for her beauty and she was indeed fairly beautiful, which is why the Juubi's final form is deformed, disgusting and ugly in every way. Her power corrupted her and turned her into a monster of pure anger, lust and cruelty. A power that would prove to be very difficult to beat. We already know that the battle ends with only Hagoromo surviving and becoming the Jin of the Juubi while Hamura dies.

Hamura & Gedo Mazou
Another thing I believe is that the Gedo Mazou was created by Hamura or is Hamura himself turned into a vessel to contain the Juubi. (Much like a gun is a vessel for its bullets) Which explains the sealing abilities of the Gedo Mazou statue and how Hamura lost his life. It also explains why the Gedo and Bijuu Chakra was extracted from Obito separately. The Gedo wasn't the original body of the Juubi, it was the original body of Hamura and thus it has the chakra closest to Kaguya. The chakra that Hamura and Hagoromo had, which were close to the chakra of the Shinju/Kaguya. Which is why the Gedo could be used to produce weaker Zetsus. As it holds a weaker form of the same chakra nature mixed with that of the Juubi.

 

IntensitySage

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Wow. Great theory! I like it.

Kaguya kinda looks like Hinata though....

To be honest, I already miss Madara!!! ;-( :T_T::NO:
 

Rohan

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Amazing Read. :)
 

Shinato

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Wow. Great theory! I like it.

Kaguya kinda looks like Hinata though....

To be honest, I already miss Madara!!! ;-( :T_T::NO:



The Hyuuga are most likely either remnants of the people Kaguya brought with her to this new earth or blood related to Hamura. (If he had children prior to fighting the Juubi. If not then they are probably related Hagoromo. But I've always thought that Kaguya looked more like Kushina.)

 

Dirty Deeds

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I am not certain what you mean by this..


i can see right through you're blasphemy @.@ you're using the smallest size of text to torture us because you have a grudge on the world because you probably use glasses and we don't U_U nice theory though well done
[/QUOTE]
 

Dirty Deeds

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I am not certain what you mean by this..


i can see right through you're blasphemy @.@ you're using the smallest size of text to torture us all because you probably use glasses and we don't U_U great theory though well done
 

AWSUM SID

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Nice theory. This just goes to show that Kaguya may think all existence in the current Naruto world should not have existed in the first place.

but, what you wrote made me think of some weird possibilities:

I have a feeling that she came to this naruto world dimension from her dimension to make an army to fight off another god or dimensional deity.

She was praised as a god right? There's also the other god Jashin. And most probably, 6 gods in total. Why six? Because of the six paths that the rinnegan user can use. Each path refers to a dimension and each path of the rinnegan is a power belonging to the gods of each dimension. You know how Jashin worshipers cannot die, same ways the rinnegan user can prevent people from dying by giving them life(how rinne tensei works or how Nagato managed to re-animate the fallen Pain bodies).

A person as powerful as her couldnt possibly need soldiers for anything. But, if she were to fight against someone as powerful as her? That would explain the army right?

But then Naruto would cease to become a story of a ninja boy and become something else entirely, at which point the only people still reading the manga would be Kishimoto and the editor.


Nice theory btw! Hope what i wrote never comes to fruition
 

Dirty Deeds

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I am not certain what you mean by this..


i can see right through you're blasphemy @.@ you're using the smallest size of text to torture us all because you probably use glasses and we don't U_U great theory though well done
 

NaruSasuRival

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The Shinju
The Shinju was looked upon as a God, and was said to have created the world. The Shinju itself takes the form a huge tree carrying a single fruit every millennium, or 1000 years. The origins of this tree is still unknown, however we have some solid fact regarding this tree as of right now.

  • Its the origin of the chakra in the Narutoverse.
  • Its the origin of the Juubi.
  • It existed before humans did.

But we, as I've stated have no idea where this tree originated from. However I have a theory of its origin. I think the Shinju was created and originated from Kaguya herself, and that is why she claims that all chakra belongs to her. But if that is true, then why did she create the Shinju and what happen? What was her goal and why does she want an army of Zetsus created by the humans of the earth? Before stating more about the Shinju, lets get over to Kaguya a little.

Princess Kaguya
The earliest evidence we have of her in the Naruto timeline is around the re-growth of the fruit. Now, why would she randomly appear at the exact moment the fruit grew again, unless she knew about it or she couldn't appear before the fruit did. Now this is were the theory starts to be come a little far fetched for some people, so let me try to explain in detail. I still believe that Kaguya comes from another location than the Earth, the place where they are currently fighting in Chapter 680 is what I believe is her home planet/dimension. But as we've seen, its inhabitable and and thus no one lives/exists there any more.

We also know that Kaguya is seeking an army of Zetsus for some unknown goal we have yet to hear about. But why does she need an army if everyone on the planet is under her control? She must have another goal in mind and she does refer to the Earth as "This Earth" rather than simply Earth, meaning she is talking in a form as if there are more "Earths" in existence right now. This is one of the main reasons I believe that she is from another planet. She also refers to "this Earth" as her Nursery, meaning she is growing or giving birth to something using "this Earth" which we know are the Zetsu army she wants.

So I believe that Kaguya came from a different planet with a goal of creating her Zetsu army on "Earth" in order to use them for something on her home planet. Now I believe that Kaguya herself is the Shinju, Juubi and the Fruit but I will get back to that in a split second. What I would first like to point out is that Kaguya was first witnessed a goddess and later a demon. Now, how could this change so drastically? Either she went crazy or something else happen. I believe that she never went crazy, she was simply keeping up an act to make people like her. She was plotting to create every human into Zetsus, but hid it behind a façade of being a strong and kind leader.

Kaguya's Goal
Kaguya's home planet/location has been shown to be inhabitable, and the reason because of this is nature itself. Nature is the one thing no one can deny, not even the gods. Only way to beat nature is with nature itself, as nothing lasts forever and nature will break itself over the course of time. Kaguya is using the Shinju, the Holy Tree, a God to create soldiers of nature, namely White Zetsus. Which has been shown to turn into trees in response to Tailed Beast Chakra. Kaguya holds the chakra of the Shinju, meaning the chakra of the Tailed Beasts and she has the humans who are turning to Zetsus connected to the Shinju. Black Zetsu at a point stated that he was the very land that they stood on, and that he was a lot more powerful than anyone thought. It was proven that Black Zetsu was the will of Kaguya, and not Madara meaning that some, if not all of her traits are visible in Black Zetsu's personality.

That may mean that Kaguya sees herself as the land, the Earth that they stand on. So if that is the case, then in some sense she is the Mother of Nature that created the Earth. The legends speaks however, that this was the work of the Juubi, but not the Shinju. Now we know that legends often are based off some interpretation of the truth, but is often changed over the course of time and mixed with other ideals. So say that Kaguya created the world, which I will describe in detail further down. Now if she created the Earth using her own power and the Shinju. What was her goal in doing so and why didn't she do it on her home planet? Her home planet/location was show to be covered in magma/lava in which it would make it impossible for her to grow a new nature and tree. (Even with her power, nature would fight back.)

So she found a new an empty planet, created the Shinju using herself and started "growing" a new world of nature and people in which she could turn into Zetsus. Upon creating her army of Zetsus, she may aim to get them all back to her home planet/location and use them as trees to battle nature alongside her, to change the course of nature on her home planet and saving it from destruction.

The Shinju ~ Part II
I stated that the Shinju may originate from Kaguya herself, which again means that the Juubi, Fruit and all chakra originates from her as well. Which is why she claims that all chakra belongs to her, because originally it did. Now if she came to "this Earth" in order to plant a tree and grow more, then why did she become a tree herself and what is the fruit and Juubi really? Kaguya comes to "this planet" in a hope to create an army to fight mother nature on her own planet, becoming a sort of "Mother of Nature" herself in the progress.

The Chakra Fruit
What is the fruit? Well, if my theory is correct and the Shinju itself was created from Kaguya and her body then the Fruit is nothing more than an "egg" of the Shinju and function to re-birth Kaguya after enough time has passed in order for her to gain her army and take them back to her home planet. That is why I think she appeared as the fruit did, not because she wanted to eat it, but rather because she was born from it. The way the fruit has been portrayed in as if it was concealing something and was "opening" to reveal that, the size of it also fits with the size of a human person. (If the fruit was as big as Kaguya, then she would have a hard time eating it.)

The Shinju ~ Part III
After Kaguya's rebirth from the fruit, the Shinju died off as Kaguya now held all of its power again. (Meaning that the tree had no power to keep it alive anymore.) With the Shinju dead and gone for now, she needed to find a way to turn everyone into her army of nature. So she started making a plan, the Mugen Tsukuyomi plan and as she was doing so she gave birth to two children whom I will be talking about in a short while. But why didn't Kaguya just leave the Shinju there if she planned on using it later? Well, she may need the powers from the Shinju to actually start her plan, that we don't know and most likely never will.


The Two Sons
Kaguya had two sons, Hagoromo and Hamura. But why did she have them if they weren't a part of her plan? One could argue that she just accidentally had them or that she was lonely and wanted a family. (We know how strong the urge for a family can be, just look at Naruto.) But I also think she was planning on using them for her plan, which is why I think they were thought how to use Chakra by her. I think she wanted to use her sons as medium to connect to everyone in the world, but her plan backfired when her sons didn't share the same ideals as her and rather wanted to connect the world with Ninshuu in order to bring peace. (Rather than creating an army and destroying the world.) Because of this, a battle brought out between the sons and mother, a battle in which one of the sons died.

Juubi & The Battle
I believe that the battle originally started with Kaguya vs Hagoromo & Hamura, mother vs sons. The reason I say this is because in the newest chapter we saw that Kaguya remembered Hagoromo flying and lifting his hand in a motion that I would say is an attack position. If she didn't either fight him or saw him in combat then she wouldn't have had remembered that and it also proves that Kaguya was around when Hagoromo and Hamura was adults. I think the battle started because Kaguya wanted to use the chakra connected to the world in order to make Zetsus, while Hagoromo and Haumra wanted to bring peace and help the world she had created. Now during the battle, I believe that Kaguya either released or lost control over her powers and mutated/transformed in to the Juubi.

One reason that I say this is that it was stated that the Juubi originated from the Shinju and that they were the same being at different times. Another reason I say this is that Kaguya was known for her beauty and she was indeed fairly beautiful, which is why the Juubi's final form is deformed, disgusting and ugly in every way. Her power corrupted her and turned her into a monster of pure anger, lust and cruelty. A power that would prove to be very difficult to beat. We already know that the battle ends with only Hagoromo surviving and becoming the Jin of the Juubi while Hamura dies.

Hamura & Gedo Mazou
Another thing I believe is that the Gedo Mazou was created by Hamura or is Hamura himself turned into a vessel to contain the Juubi. (Much like a gun is a vessel for its bullets) Which explains the sealing abilities of the Gedo Mazou statue and how Hamura lost his life. It also explains why the Gedo and Bijuu Chakra was extracted from Obito separately. The Gedo wasn't the original body of the Juubi, it was the original body of Hamura and thus it has the chakra closest to Kaguya. The chakra that Hamura and Hagoromo had, which were close to the chakra of the Shinju/Kaguya. Which is why the Gedo could be used to produce weaker Zetsus. As it holds a weaker form of the same chakra nature mixed with that of the Juubi.


I think the theory does not make sense. If the Shinju originated from Kaguya, then Hagoromo was lying when he spoke of his mother various stages of power handling. She went from a good person to a corrupt person. If she always had Shinju, then these stage would not make any sense.

I think you are confusing current character who looks like Kaguya and the original Kaguya who geniunely was looking for peace.
 

Shinato

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Nice theory. This just goes to show that Kaguya may think all existence in the current Naruto world should not have existed in the first place.

but, what you wrote made me think of some weird possibilities:

I have a feeling that she came to this naruto world dimension from her dimension to make an army to fight off another god or dimensional deity.

She was praised as a god right? There's also the other god Jashin. And most probably, 6 gods in total. Why six? Because of the six paths that the rinnegan user can use. Each path refers to a dimension and each path of the rinnegan is a power belonging to the gods of each dimension. You know how Jashin worshipers cannot die, same ways the rinnegan user can prevent people from dying by giving them life(how rinne tensei works or how Nagato managed to re-animate the fallen Pain bodies).

A person as powerful as her couldnt possibly need soldiers for anything. But, if she were to fight against someone as powerful as her? That would explain the army right?

But then Naruto would cease to become a story of a ninja boy and become something else entirely, at which point the only people still reading the manga would be Kishimoto and the editor.


Nice theory btw! Hope what i wrote never comes to fruition



Only problem with this really is that an army of Zetsus would do no difference what so ever against someone equally powerful as Kaguya. They would be crushed by just the two Gods spreading their chakra around.

 

Rohan

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Only problem with this really is that an army of Zetsus would do no difference what so ever against someone equally powerful as Kaguya. They would be crushed by just the two Gods spreading their chakra around.


I think an army of White Zetsus fuelled by the chakra of the Shinju will be extremely powerful.
 

Shinato

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I think an army of White Zetsus fuelled by the chakra of the Shinju will be extremely powerful.

They aren't fuelled with chakra, like Kaguya stated. All chakra belongs to her, and her alone. She wants it all for herself, and she has already taken all the chakra from the Shinju and Shinobi. All that remains is the natural enegery within the Shinju, which will increase the overall power of the Zetsus, but I doubt it would be enough to rival a God.
 

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Very nice read. Making theories about Kaguya is always good:ls:

It's true that the relation between the Shinju/Juubi and Kaguya is one of the biggest mysteries in the plot.

A few things that bugged me a bit in your theory:

-We don't know if her home- "dimension", or -"world" is uninhabitable. We just saw the volcano, but that doesn't mean the whole world is like that. Some people theorized the coloured opening of the last chapter, where Team 7 is in a medieval looking world shows in fact Kaguya's world.

-Kaguya losing control of her power and thus turning into the Juubi seems strange considering Kaguya has more chakra than the Juubi. If she loses control of her powers, you would expect the resulting purely power manifested creature to be actually far more powerful than her...
 

Shinato

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Very nice read. Making theories about Kaguya is always good:ls:

It's true that the relation between the Shinju/Juubi and Kaguya is one of the biggest mysteries in the plot.

A few things that bugged me a bit in your theory:

-We don't know if her home- "dimension", or -"world" is uninhabitable. We just saw the volcano, but that doesn't mean the whole world is like that. Some people theorized the coloured opening of the last chapter, where Team 7 is in a medieval looking world shows in fact Kaguya's world.

-Kaguya losing control of her power and thus turning into the Juubi seems strange considering Kaguya has more chakra than the Juubi. If she loses control of her powers, you would expect the resulting purely power manifested creature to be actually far more powerful than her...



+ I doubt the medieval location is Kaguya's world, I think its just a random thing Kishi did. (Like the mech page.)

+ She was only more powerful than the Juubi after absorbing the chakra of Madara (including his Senjutsu), The Shinju, Juubi and the chakra of everyone alive. Remember that following my theory, at the time when she became the Juubi, she had two sons which both had a considerable amount of her chakra. (I would say that combined, they had about half of it.) Which is why she would only be at the level of the Juubi. (Meaning that right now, she is a whole lot stronger than what Hagoromo and Hamura faught.)

 

Rohan

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They aren't fuelled with chakra, like Kaguya stated. All chakra belongs to her, and her alone. She wants it all for herself, and she has already taken all the chakra from the Shinju and Shinobi. All that remains is the natural enegery within the Shinju, which will increase the overall power of the Zetsus, but I doubt it would be enough to rival a God.

But won't Kaguya become extremely powerful with all that chakra ? She could easily defeat all the gods with that power.
 

Shinato

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But won't Kaguya become extremely powerful with all that chakra ? She could easily defeat all the gods with that power.



I doubt she could, and if she could then she wouldn't need an army. If she wouldn't need an army then she wouldn't be fighting Sasuke and Naruto right now. She would just have headed to the other dimension and attack the God she wanted.

 
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