Kaguya just simply was not the final villain of Shippuden.

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Alright, so hear me out. The final battle might be a little more complex & interesting than you might think....it seems that just we all were looking in the wrong place.

I think a huge factor as to why people dislike The final battle arc as a whole is that they expect too much from the woman in charge. Kaguya was not the final threat, it was Zetsu.

It's why he had all of Kaguya's lines, development panels and exposition. He was the one who laid out the story of Naruto which like it or not (Im not a huge fan of) entitles him as the series big villain. People ask why Kaguya had no lines or development but she didn't need to. We heard of her story briefly and that's all we needed- that's not what Kishi wanted to focus on. The development WAS there, but it was merely Zetsu's story.

Now stay with me, Kaguya was just the powerhouse of ability that Zetsu didn't have. When he became one with his mother again he became the FV. Does anybody actually believe BZ was Kaguya's physical 'child'? Like...you think she gave birth to 2 normal sons & then a glob of black goo? Zetsu was a part of Kaguya- the same way Father from FMA turned parts of his personality or goals into living homonculus. Not Madaras will, but Kaguya's...he directly says this, not that he serves Kaguya...that he literally IS Kaguya's will. Strange wording.

Zetsu IS kaguya. Kaguya is Zetsu. Their plans, sttories & motive and the same.

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Zetsu was using Kaguyas powers in the same way as Madara & Obito did, only that Zetsu could physically manifest Kaguya & therefore was the strongest of them. That's why Kaguya was silent. She was doing her talking, just through her intelligent fragment. Kaguya was almost a husk.

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(Kaguya/Zetsu's brains ordering the body (the power) as to how to fight)

It's why the final hit of the manga isn't the trio sealing Kaguya, it was Naruto punching Zetsu into the final attack. The living EMBODIMENT of hate in the ninja world incarnate. That was Narutos goal in Shippuden- characterised for him into one character. A black mass of living hatred.

Spoiler

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So there you go, ive just made the Kaguya arc that little bit better for you.​

 

[Cfighter]

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Zetsu in the final fight was not a villain, but was simply doing what his character has always been doing. From the get-go, Zetsu has been established as nothing more than a spectator; someone who has intel on just about everything but has no backbone for himself when it comes down to it.

There are a few factors that need consideration when it comes to what constitutes a "villain" of a series, especially the final villain. And when all is said and done, there was no final villain. It was poor writing no matter how you slice it. The true "final villain" was and always is Madara Uchiha, however for reasons that baffle me, Madara was killed off with an ass pull to make room for Kaguya and Zetsu. This might have worked in some bizarre scenario, but Kishi rushed things. If there was another 20-50 chapters to really flesh out the arc prior [note I said arc, not fight], then maybe it could have worked [maybe].

But when it boiled down to it, Kaguya was all hype with no motives. She had no character development, no clear motivation, nothing for the audience to latch on to, and no voice [literally]. While on the flip side, Zetsu was all bark and no bite. Hardly intimidating even as a team, and was a laughable excuse for a villain much less a final villain.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Zetsu in the final fight was not a villain, but was simply doing what his character has always been doing. From the get-go, Zetsu has been established as nothing more than a spectator; someone who has intel on just about everything but has no backbone for himself when it comes down to it.

There are a few factors that need consideration when it comes to what constitutes a "villain" of a series, especially the final villain. And when all is said and done, there was no final villain. It was poor writing no matter how you slice it. The true "final villain" was and always is Madara Uchiha, however for reasons that baffle me, Madara was killed off with an ass pull to make room for Kaguya and Zetsu. This might have worked in some bizarre scenario, but Kishi rushed things. If there was another 20-50 chapters to really flesh out the arc prior [note I said arc, not fight], then maybe it could have worked [maybe].

But when it boiled down to it, Kaguya was all hype with no motives. She had no character development, no clear motivation, nothing for the audience to latch on to, and no voice [literally]. While on the flip side, Zetsu was all bark and no bite. Hardly intimidating even as a team, and was a laughable excuse for a villain much less a final villain.

The second the story dumped Madara, it was no longer his story. I'm sorry if that's what you would've preferred (?) but the reality of the manga's ending- what we got given wasn't his story. In the same way Obito wasn't the final villain. (even though imo he totally should've been)

Zetsu (as we know him) WAS the bark and his original body (Kaguya) was the BITE. OF THE NINJA WORLD. Through words and trickery Zetsu led the world to destruction and to the point where the Bite could eliminate the entire ninja world.

 

[SatanicGod]

Kaguya did do talking, and I actually liked every line she had. Just because in your opinion, BZ was the FV doesn't make it true.
Kaguya was the FV and that's all there is to it

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Kaguya did do talking, and I actually liked every line she had. Just because in your opinion, BZ was the FV doesn't make it true.
Kaguya was the FV and that's all there is to it

Which was why BZ was the final villain to be defeated...? Interesting.

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---


She was capable of short sentences and emotion. But she was literally taking orders from her 'son'. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME BEING. No need to be redundant and a **** about a theory buddy.

 

[Wood Style Tenzo]

wow best theory i've read on here for a while.

It also completely explains how we never really learned how Zetsu was born or what he really even is......

 

[To Whatever]

Which was why BZ was the final villain to be defeated...? Interesting.

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---


She was capable of short sentences and emotion. But she was literally taking orders from her 'son'. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME BEING. No need to be redundant and a **** about a theory buddy.

......
if they're the same why was this thread made?

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

......
if they're the same why was this thread made?

Because people act as if Kaguya had next to no development or lines when in reality she did. But it was said through her second mouth.

 

[Cfighter]

The second the story dumped Madara, it was no longer his story. I'm sorry if that's what you would've preferred (?) but the reality of the manga's ending- what we got given wasn't his story. In the same way Obito wasn't the final villain. (even though imo he totally should've been)

Zetsu (as we know him) WAS the bark and his original body (Kaguya) was the BITE. OF THE NINJA WORLD. Through words and trickery Zetsu led the world to destruction and to the point where the Bite could eliminate the entire ninja world.

You are forgetting one simple thing, my friend; this story is not Zetsu's. It's not Kaguya's. It's not Obito's. It's not Madara's. This story, is Naruto's - and to a degree Sasuke's.

Yes, by technicality Zetsu was behind everything through his own manipulation. However, that is not the conclusion to the story presented - that is the origin of it. As a mention before, there are many things that need to be considered when talking about the "Final Villain" of a story. As there is a very distinct difference between a "villain" and an "antagonist". The villain of a story is the ultimate evil; this is the force that the hero must confront in order to solve his dilemma. The antagonist is the opposition to the Hero [or protagonist]. In simple stories, the Villain and the Antagonist are the same, but a lot of the times they are not. Here is where things get tricky, please try and stay with me now =D

Determining whether a character is a villain or an antagonist is subjective and has plenty of room for debate; but one thing that is sure is that it is possible for a villain to become an antagonist, or vice versa. Darth Vader in the Star Wars trilogy for example, was introduced as the villain of the story. However, when he had a change of heart in Return of the Jedi, he became not the villain [that role was taken on by the Emperor], but the antagonist as Luke Skywalker made him realize the error in his ways.

Now, if I was making a thread out of this, I would now examine the entirety of Naruto's plot to determine the qualifications for the story's villains and then for it's antagonists. However, this is not a thread, this is a response so if you do not mind I shall skip that analysis in favor of my point.

Obito was an antagonist. Now, we can debate on if he was ever a villain, but there is no doubt that he transitioned into nothing more than a antagonist by the time Madara was introduced in the war arc. Madara was a villain; he may not have been the "final" villain at the time of introduction, but there is no denying that was a villain. The issue at hand however is when Kaguya and Zetsu were properly introduced into the story, and now I will explain briefly why they were simply antagonists:

Madara's motives were the entire reason for the War Arc, and was the singularity that the entire world banned together to defeat. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke's arcs were developing with Madara as the villain [because remember, this story is about Naruto and Sasuke, not Zetsu]. The Sage of 6 Paths had furthered both of Naruto's and Sasuke's arcs in the hopes of defeating Madara. By the time Kaguya and Zetsu came along, the main threat had already been eliminated and Naruto and Sasuke's arcs had been put on halt until their final fight. Halted by an opposition. Halted by an antagonist.

I don't think that there is any denying that Kaguya was merely an antagonist. Even your argument is for Zetsu as the villain, not Kaguya. And while there may be an argument to be made that Zetsu was an antagonist turned villain, the fact remains that there simply was not enough development time to flesh out that argument. The writing and transitions were so horrible between Madara and Kaguya, that Zetsu cannot even be considered a "villain" but an antagonist. I would however consider the possibility of Sasuke being the final villain, but that's a whole different debate.

I look forward to your reply. *_*

 

[Seventh Sama]

They're separate beings tho. Besides bz was talking to kaguya at times, would that mean she has a dual personality?
BZ was there just for advice.

 

[Rohan]

You are forgetting one simple thing, my friend; this story is not Zetsu's. It's not Kaguya's. It's not Obito's. It's not Madara's. This story, is Naruto's - and to a degree Sasuke's.

Yes, by technicality Zetsu was behind everything through his own manipulation. However, that is not the conclusion to the story presented - that is the origin of it. As a mention before, there are many things that need to be considered when talking about the "Final Villain" of a story. As there is a very distinct difference between a "villain" and an "antagonist". The villain of a story is the ultimate evil; this is the force that the hero must confront in order to solve his dilemma. The antagonist is the opposition to the Hero [or protagonist]. In simple stories, the Villain and the Antagonist are the same, but a lot of the times they are not. Here is where things get tricky, please try and stay with me now =D

Determining whether a character is a villain or an antagonist is subjective and has plenty of room for debate; but one thing that is sure is that it is possible for a villain to become an antagonist, or vice versa. Darth Vader in the Star Wars trilogy for example, was introduced as the villain of the story. However, when he had a change of heart in Return of the Jedi, he became not the villain [that role was taken on by the Emperor], but the antagonist as Luke Skywalker made him realize the error in his ways.

Now, if I was making a thread out of this, I would now examine the entirety of Naruto's plot to determine the qualifications for the story's villains and then for it's antagonists. However, this is not a thread, this is a response so if you do not mind I shall skip that analysis in favor of my point.

Obito was an antagonist. Now, we can debate on if he was ever a villain, but there is no doubt that he transitioned into nothing more than a antagonist by the time Madara was introduced in the war arc. Madara was a villain; he may not have been the "final" villain at the time of introduction, but there is no denying that was a villain. The issue at hand however is when Kaguya and Zetsu were properly introduced into the story, and now I will explain briefly why they were simply antagonists:

Madara's motives were the entire reason for the War Arc, and was the singularity that the entire world banned together to defeat. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke's arcs were developing with Madara as the villain [because remember, this story is about Naruto and Sasuke, not Zetsu]. The Sage of 6 Paths had furthered both of Naruto's and Sasuke's arcs in the hopes of defeating Madara. By the time Kaguya and Zetsu came along, the main threat had already been eliminated and Naruto and Sasuke's arcs had been put on halt until their final fight. Halted by an opposition. Halted by an antagonist.

I don't think that there is any denying that Kaguya was merely an antagonist. Even your argument is for Zetsu as the villain, not Kaguya. And while there may be an argument to be made that Zetsu was an antagonist turned villain, the fact remains that there simply was not enough development time to flesh out that argument. The writing and transitions were so horrible between Madara and Kaguya, that Zetsu cannot even be considered a "villain" but an antagonist. I would however consider the possibility of Sasuke being the final villain, but that's a whole different debate.

I look forward to your reply. *_*

10/10 Post. Aizen Approves.

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[UnknownJin]

No she is not . That mimoshiki is or w.e his name is

 

[Goetia]

10/10 Post. Aizen Approves.

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I do not approve of such things so lightly.

OT:

Neither of the characters were well-written, if you can even call their backstory and personality writing of any standard.

 

[Itachi Edo]

Garbage is still garbage, even if you put water on it. In fact it makes it stink all the more. Hated that last arc with her in it.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Kaguya was not the FV and neither Madara nor Sasuke. They just a rides in Naruto stories

 

[KingHashirama]

Sasukr uchiha was the final villain...

 

[solo king]

I personally loved kaguya.i know I'm gona get hate for it but she was the ultimate threat of the manga.it all started with her and even after being sealed she left zetsu to revive her.even now that there both sealed sasuke spend years searching for her hidden army.her strength and effect on the naruto world as a whole are much greater than madaras
??????

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

You are forgetting one simple thing, my friend; this story is not Zetsu's. It's not Kaguya's. It's not Obito's. It's not Madara's. This story, is Naruto's - and to a degree Sasuke's.

Yes, by technicality Zetsu was behind everything through his own manipulation. However, that is not the conclusion to the story presented - that is the origin of it. As a mention before, there are many things that need to be considered when talking about the "Final Villain" of a story. As there is a very distinct difference between a "villain" and an "antagonist". The villain of a story is the ultimate evil; this is the force that the hero must confront in order to solve his dilemma. The antagonist is the opposition to the Hero [or protagonist]. In simple stories, the Villain and the Antagonist are the same, but a lot of the times they are not. Here is where things get tricky, please try and stay with me now =D

Determining whether a character is a villain or an antagonist is subjective and has plenty of room for debate; but one thing that is sure is that it is possible for a villain to become an antagonist, or vice versa. Darth Vader in the Star Wars trilogy for example, was introduced as the villain of the story. However, when he had a change of heart in Return of the Jedi, he became not the villain [that role was taken on by the Emperor], but the antagonist as Luke Skywalker made him realize the error in his ways.

Now, if I was making a thread out of this, I would now examine the entirety of Naruto's plot to determine the qualifications for the story's villains and then for it's antagonists. However, this is not a thread, this is a response so if you do not mind I shall skip that analysis in favor of my point.

Obito was an antagonist. Now, we can debate on if he was ever a villain, but there is no doubt that he transitioned into nothing more than a antagonist by the time Madara was introduced in the war arc. Madara was a villain; he may not have been the "final" villain at the time of introduction, but there is no denying that was a villain. The issue at hand however is when Kaguya and Zetsu were properly introduced into the story, and now I will explain briefly why they were simply antagonists:

Madara's motives were the entire reason for the War Arc, and was the singularity that the entire world banned together to defeat. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke's arcs were developing with Madara as the villain [because remember, this story is about Naruto and Sasuke, not Zetsu]. The Sage of 6 Paths had furthered both of Naruto's and Sasuke's arcs in the hopes of defeating Madara. By the time Kaguya and Zetsu came along, the main threat had already been eliminated and Naruto and Sasuke's arcs had been put on halt until their final fight. Halted by an opposition. Halted by an antagonist.

I don't think that there is any denying that Kaguya was merely an antagonist. Even your argument is for Zetsu as the villain, not Kaguya. And while there may be an argument to be made that Zetsu was an antagonist turned villain, the fact remains that there simply was not enough development time to flesh out that argument. The writing and transitions were so horrible between Madara and Kaguya, that Zetsu cannot even be considered a "villain" but an antagonist. I would however consider the possibility of Sasuke being the final villain, but that's a whole different debate.

I look forward to your reply. *_*

Great read. You deserve a rep for this.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

You are forgetting one simple thing, my friend; this story is not Zetsu's. It's not Kaguya's. It's not Obito's. It's not Madara's. This story, is Naruto's - and to a degree Sasuke's.

Yes, by technicality Zetsu was behind everything through his own manipulation. However, that is not the conclusion to the story presented - that is the origin of it. As a mention before, there are many things that need to be considered when talking about the "Final Villain" of a story. As there is a very distinct difference between a "villain" and an "antagonist". The villain of a story is the ultimate evil; this is the force that the hero must confront in order to solve his dilemma. The antagonist is the opposition to the Hero [or protagonist]. In simple stories, the Villain and the Antagonist are the same, but a lot of the times they are not. Here is where things get tricky, please try and stay with me now =D

Determining whether a character is a villain or an antagonist is subjective and has plenty of room for debate; but one thing that is sure is that it is possible for a villain to become an antagonist, or vice versa. Darth Vader in the Star Wars trilogy for example, was introduced as the villain of the story. However, when he had a change of heart in Return of the Jedi, he became not the villain [that role was taken on by the Emperor], but the antagonist as Luke Skywalker made him realize the error in his ways.

Now, if I was making a thread out of this, I would now examine the entirety of Naruto's plot to determine the qualifications for the story's villains and then for it's antagonists. However, this is not a thread, this is a response so if you do not mind I shall skip that analysis in favor of my point.

Obito was an antagonist. Now, we can debate on if he was ever a villain, but there is no doubt that he transitioned into nothing more than a antagonist by the time Madara was introduced in the war arc. Madara was a villain; he may not have been the "final" villain at the time of introduction, but there is no denying that was a villain. The issue at hand however is when Kaguya and Zetsu were properly introduced into the story, and now I will explain briefly why they were simply antagonists:

Madara's motives were the entire reason for the War Arc, and was the singularity that the entire world banned together to defeat. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke's arcs were developing with Madara as the villain [because remember, this story is about Naruto and Sasuke, not Zetsu]. The Sage of 6 Paths had furthered both of Naruto's and Sasuke's arcs in the hopes of defeating Madara. By the time Kaguya and Zetsu came along, the main threat had already been eliminated and Naruto and Sasuke's arcs had been put on halt until their final fight. Halted by an opposition. Halted by an antagonist.

I don't think that there is any denying that Kaguya was merely an antagonist. Even your argument is for Zetsu as the villain, not Kaguya. And while there may be an argument to be made that Zetsu was an antagonist turned villain, the fact remains that there simply was not enough development time to flesh out that argument. The writing and transitions were so horrible between Madara and Kaguya, that Zetsu cannot even be considered a "villain" but an antagonist. I would however consider the possibility of Sasuke being the final villain, but that's a whole different debate.

I look forward to your reply. *_*

Yet your point of madara starting this war arc was invalid when he was just a pawn by BZ who read the monument stone which led everythingto happen. The point of the story is that the endless cycle repeat itself and zetsu was the cause who orchestrated the entire shinobi world which led to cause naruto vs sasuke in the first place.
Madara was an antagonist as soon as we learn more indepth to his backstory and we learned that he was being victimized like everyone else. Madara wasn't really a villain when he wanted true peace which in a dream world brings everyone happiness. The dream world isn't a bad thing however everything madara has done was set up by BZ and then we learn everything was a lie.

You simply jump the conclusion and assumed kaguya was the antagonist yet we knew she had one but as a reader we had no idea what her true intentions are.

In the end kaguya has to be defeated in order to prevent from demonizing the world. Everyone not just team 7 but all the kage including Hagoromo pour their souls to seal kaguya and this showcase all the past of the shinobi putting their work to change the destiny therefore kaguya concluded to be the villain until kishi decide to expand the story to learn more about her motive.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

You are forgetting one simple thing, my friend; this story is not Zetsu's. It's not Kaguya's. It's not Obito's. It's not Madara's. This story, is Naruto's - and to a degree Sasuke's.

Yes, by technicality Zetsu was behind everything through his own manipulation. However, that is not the conclusion to the story presented - that is the origin of it. As a mention before, there are many things that need to be considered when talking about the "Final Villain" of a story. As there is a very distinct difference between a "villain" and an "antagonist". The villain of a story is the ultimate evil; this is the force that the hero must confront in order to solve his dilemma. The antagonist is the opposition to the Hero [or protagonist]. In simple stories, the Villain and the Antagonist are the same, but a lot of the times they are not. Here is where things get tricky, please try and stay with me now =D

Determining whether a character is a villain or an antagonist is subjective and has plenty of room for debate; but one thing that is sure is that it is possible for a villain to become an antagonist, or vice versa. Darth Vader in the Star Wars trilogy for example, was introduced as the villain of the story. However, when he had a change of heart in Return of the Jedi, he became not the villain [that role was taken on by the Emperor], but the antagonist as Luke Skywalker made him realize the error in his ways.

Now, if I was making a thread out of this, I would now examine the entirety of Naruto's plot to determine the qualifications for the story's villains and then for it's antagonists. However, this is not a thread, this is a response so if you do not mind I shall skip that analysis in favor of my point.

Obito was an antagonist. Now, we can debate on if he was ever a villain, but there is no doubt that he transitioned into nothing more than a antagonist by the time Madara was introduced in the war arc. Madara was a villain; he may not have been the "final" villain at the time of introduction, but there is no denying that was a villain. The issue at hand however is when Kaguya and Zetsu were properly introduced into the story, and now I will explain briefly why they were simply antagonists:

Madara's motives were the entire reason for the War Arc, and was the singularity that the entire world banned together to defeat. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke's arcs were developing with Madara as the villain [because remember, this story is about Naruto and Sasuke, not Zetsu]. The Sage of 6 Paths had furthered both of Naruto's and Sasuke's arcs in the hopes of defeating Madara. By the time Kaguya and Zetsu came along, the main threat had already been eliminated and Naruto and Sasuke's arcs had been put on halt until their final fight. Halted by an opposition. Halted by an antagonist.

I don't think that there is any denying that Kaguya was merely an antagonist. Even your argument is for Zetsu as the villain, not Kaguya. And while there may be an argument to be made that Zetsu was an antagonist turned villain, the fact remains that there simply was not enough development time to flesh out that argument. The writing and transitions were so horrible between Madara and Kaguya, that Zetsu cannot even be considered a "villain" but an antagonist. I would however consider the possibility of Sasuke being the final villain, but that's a whole different debate.

I look forward to your reply. *_*

I don't get how Naruto being the main character overrules Zetsu/Kaguya being one and the same and also the FV.

Naruto is the main character, Shippuden his main motive was to bring about peace and remove hate from the Ninja World. Zetsu was the literal black good epitome of hate in the Ninja World. He was Kaguya and together they are the final villain.