NaruSasuRival
Leaf Village Regular 🍃
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Guys, I lost my concentration, and decided to relax on a discussion topic that will make more than one person shed some word, logic, flaming, and probably bashing. As the title says, I will be trying to raise the issue of who is the strongest - that is Hagoromo or Kaguya. Then, we will discuss why the conclusion may or may not hold. Now, this thread tied implicitly to both Sasuke and Naruto, and I will do my best to remove all biases.
I. Meat for thoughts
(a) Hagoromo claimed that he is the one who brought peace and order
(b) To Naruto's question about his mother's strength, Hagoromo claimed that she was stronger than anyone else
Preliminary comments
Based on (a), I am inclined to say that Hagoromo was stronger than his mother. Better, if we take his brother into account, I would say that Hagoromo and his brother were stronger than their mother and Shinju. The reason I make his brother secondary is that Hagoromo did not give him any credit.
Based on (a), many people believe that Kaguya is the strongest person in the Narutoverse since the beginning till now. However, there could also be another interpretation of what Hagoromo said to Naruto. Taken in the contest of Haogoromo talking about his mother ruling other the world, we could say that Hagoromo was speaking of her power relative to other human, excluding him, or him and his brother.
II.Using Analogy between Narutoverser and Christianity
1. On the origin
According to Rikudo, his mother came from another land, and ate the fruit, then got power. Her goal was to restore peace, but with the amount of power she gained, she lost control and went berserk. Thus, she turn evil. All these can be deduced fom Hagoromo's statement on him and his brother trying to atone for their mother's sin. Here, if kishi respect us, then he knows good readers will not accept this as all the story. Where did Kaguya come from, just as Naruto asked? Why was she concerned about the peace of the world? How did she know eating the fruit gives power? Why did she not care about the worship of the tree? These lead to many other speculation, and my take goes in the Bible.
Now, in the Bible, Adam and Eve where in the garden and doing their daily things. Basically, they were worshiping God everyday and hours. They were instructed not to eat the fruit from the tree with the risk of death if they disobey. However, for those who are Christians and know the Bible, the death mentioned therein is not physical death. Rather, it is moral death, spiritual death - that is the rupture of the natural connection between them and God. This rupture was caused by knowledge, and therefore, they could now argue with God, create things on their own, build their own power, etc, rather than relying solely on God.
The most interesting thing here is the source of the corruption of Adam and Eve. Eve was tricked by the Serpent or devil (could be said by Orochimaru). Here, again, well advised Christians knows that the Serpent or devil came from another land. To know that, you need to go beyond genesis and read the rest of the bible. The Serpent was thrown from Heaven by God because he disobeyed.
2. Orochimaru?
So basically, what I was saying is that Kakguya is simply used by hagoromo to represent the evil force that possessed her body. That force knew the truth about the Shinju tre, and wanted its power, but did not have the power to eat it. Thus, that devil, or Orochimaru tricked Kaguya in order to take that power.
This could be explained through Orochimaru's obsession of the Sharingan, which he think can give him all knowledge of ninjutsus and lead to immortality.
III. Hagoromo's Rinnegan is definitely the strongest dojutsu
Normally, I should say Hagoromo is the strongest - that is his senjutsu and Rinnegan form the strongest power in the narutoverse. However, I know we all agree with the Senjutsu. The problem is that some people think that Kakguya's eye is the super eye, and the strongest dojutsus. Should we argue?
Normally, no, but let try. I can say that Kaguya's eye is a subset of Rinnegan power. That is once you have Rinnegan, the Rinnegan power can generate a third eye, which is Kaguya's eye. Therefore, having Rinnegan is the strongest dojutsu possible.
Now, you may say that Hagoromo got Rinnegan beacuse he was kaguya's child. Well, no. Hagoromo's Rinnegan is unexplained yet. We don't know his father, and we don't know whether his father had power, or not. Note also that he is a priest, and I think this priesthood is the Christianity conterpart in this analogy. Thus, Rinnegan may actually be a power bestowed onto Hagoromo by the god of the Narutoverse to restore the order of things as it was before the corruption of his mother.
Back to Christianity, after the corruption, God told eve that the serpent will bite her heel. He also said that the serpent will be crushed by the child of the woman. Could it be that hagoromo was just the first occurence of the child of the woman. Ashura could be another one, then Hashirama, and finally Naruto.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that the Uchiha are children of the devil. Rather, the logic her is that the devil always possess human to do his job. Just like Adam's son Cain killed his brother Abel because God was pleased with Abel, Indra fight to the death with Ashura because their father was pleased with Ashura's will. The same cycle is what is being repeated, and we think Naruto and Sasuke will end it. Will they end it by becoming equal, or will they end it by accepting each other's power?
Give your take for this wall of text.
I. Meat for thoughts
(a) Hagoromo claimed that he is the one who brought peace and order
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(b) To Naruto's question about his mother's strength, Hagoromo claimed that she was stronger than anyone else
You must be registered for see images
Preliminary comments
Based on (a), I am inclined to say that Hagoromo was stronger than his mother. Better, if we take his brother into account, I would say that Hagoromo and his brother were stronger than their mother and Shinju. The reason I make his brother secondary is that Hagoromo did not give him any credit.
Based on (a), many people believe that Kaguya is the strongest person in the Narutoverse since the beginning till now. However, there could also be another interpretation of what Hagoromo said to Naruto. Taken in the contest of Haogoromo talking about his mother ruling other the world, we could say that Hagoromo was speaking of her power relative to other human, excluding him, or him and his brother.
II.Using Analogy between Narutoverser and Christianity
1. On the origin
According to Rikudo, his mother came from another land, and ate the fruit, then got power. Her goal was to restore peace, but with the amount of power she gained, she lost control and went berserk. Thus, she turn evil. All these can be deduced fom Hagoromo's statement on him and his brother trying to atone for their mother's sin. Here, if kishi respect us, then he knows good readers will not accept this as all the story. Where did Kaguya come from, just as Naruto asked? Why was she concerned about the peace of the world? How did she know eating the fruit gives power? Why did she not care about the worship of the tree? These lead to many other speculation, and my take goes in the Bible.
Now, in the Bible, Adam and Eve where in the garden and doing their daily things. Basically, they were worshiping God everyday and hours. They were instructed not to eat the fruit from the tree with the risk of death if they disobey. However, for those who are Christians and know the Bible, the death mentioned therein is not physical death. Rather, it is moral death, spiritual death - that is the rupture of the natural connection between them and God. This rupture was caused by knowledge, and therefore, they could now argue with God, create things on their own, build their own power, etc, rather than relying solely on God.
The most interesting thing here is the source of the corruption of Adam and Eve. Eve was tricked by the Serpent or devil (could be said by Orochimaru). Here, again, well advised Christians knows that the Serpent or devil came from another land. To know that, you need to go beyond genesis and read the rest of the bible. The Serpent was thrown from Heaven by God because he disobeyed.
2. Orochimaru?
So basically, what I was saying is that Kakguya is simply used by hagoromo to represent the evil force that possessed her body. That force knew the truth about the Shinju tre, and wanted its power, but did not have the power to eat it. Thus, that devil, or Orochimaru tricked Kaguya in order to take that power.
This could be explained through Orochimaru's obsession of the Sharingan, which he think can give him all knowledge of ninjutsus and lead to immortality.
III. Hagoromo's Rinnegan is definitely the strongest dojutsu
Normally, I should say Hagoromo is the strongest - that is his senjutsu and Rinnegan form the strongest power in the narutoverse. However, I know we all agree with the Senjutsu. The problem is that some people think that Kakguya's eye is the super eye, and the strongest dojutsus. Should we argue?
Normally, no, but let try. I can say that Kaguya's eye is a subset of Rinnegan power. That is once you have Rinnegan, the Rinnegan power can generate a third eye, which is Kaguya's eye. Therefore, having Rinnegan is the strongest dojutsu possible.
Now, you may say that Hagoromo got Rinnegan beacuse he was kaguya's child. Well, no. Hagoromo's Rinnegan is unexplained yet. We don't know his father, and we don't know whether his father had power, or not. Note also that he is a priest, and I think this priesthood is the Christianity conterpart in this analogy. Thus, Rinnegan may actually be a power bestowed onto Hagoromo by the god of the Narutoverse to restore the order of things as it was before the corruption of his mother.
Back to Christianity, after the corruption, God told eve that the serpent will bite her heel. He also said that the serpent will be crushed by the child of the woman. Could it be that hagoromo was just the first occurence of the child of the woman. Ashura could be another one, then Hashirama, and finally Naruto.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that the Uchiha are children of the devil. Rather, the logic her is that the devil always possess human to do his job. Just like Adam's son Cain killed his brother Abel because God was pleased with Abel, Indra fight to the death with Ashura because their father was pleased with Ashura's will. The same cycle is what is being repeated, and we think Naruto and Sasuke will end it. Will they end it by becoming equal, or will they end it by accepting each other's power?
Give your take for this wall of text.
