[VS] (Kages) vs (DrProof) Kakashi vs Kisame Debate!

[BlacLord™]

Kisame is skilled enough to even just outlast Kakashi in 1vs1. Kamui is his only chance and he avoids it until the nearer the end of a battle, and if by that point Kisame is using Water Prison Shark Dance, He'll have to keep Kamui running long enough to suck up all the water before he gets to Kisame and that'll not only take too much chakra (if its even possible with the density and mass of the technique), but it will physically hinder him to the point that Kisame could make an easy hit with the speed increase he gets upon fusing with Kisame underwater.

Kisame>Kakashi (in battle)
Kakashi>Kisame (in skills)

 

[CharlieBundels]

Kages

You started out pretty well, and I liked the way you used Kakashi's moniker to his advantage. At that stage, you were being realistic, and you seemed to have backed up your claims pretty well, it was a pretty decent first post if I may say so myself. Excluding your mystical palm assumption, which I'm not sure where you got that from. Kakashi is no medical nin... I also liked the fact you were able to back up some of your claims with early manga facts, good job. Kakashi's speed advantage also seemed to be on point.

Kages, overall though, your arguments were mainly centralised on speculation, and speculation alone. It seems as if you've built your argument on Kisame standing still, allowing Kakashi to proceed with your said argument. I mean, mystical palm? Not really. I also believe you could have capitalized on Kamuis' speed, and used it against Proof. It's a manga fact that Kakashi's Kamui is faster than Obito's, by quite a bit, shown where he was able to warp Naruto at near instantaneous speed. I also disagree with Kisame being held down with Kakashi's dogs. You see, I think you're mistaking Kisame for Zabuza, which is a mistake in it's own right. Kisame has been shown to break Mokuton: Stock. Considering Gai just destroyed him, and Yamato was suppressing his chakra, that's a darn good strength feat. Let's be honest here, one swing from Samehada would murder all of those dogs. I also noticed you failed to counter Proof's comments, but instead changed Kakashi's counters multiple times. Also, I believe you're mistaken on Earth walls capabilities. It's simply a technique to provide protection from head on attacks. Using it in a water dome does absolutely nothing. Using Kamui on the water dome is quite iffy. You see, the water dome covers a 360 degree radius, wherein Kakashi can only focus his Kamui on one side at a time. I believe if he were to Kamui the water dome, and if he can, his chakra toll would take a huge plunge...

All in all, mediocre post, at best.

DrProof

You began your counter-argument very well, as you were able to counter every point Kages displayed. You provided facts, manga pages, and databook pages, making your argument all the more solid.

Your arguments concerning the water dome was spot on, as Kisame is fused with a chakra absorbing tool. I also agree on the general basis of Kisame outlasting Kakashi, meaning Kakashi cannot keep copying Kisame's jutsu, as he'd be depleted of chakra rather fast. Considering Kisame's large scale Suiton techniques, I doubt Kakashi could maintain it. I did, however disagree with your kamui argument. As Kages failed to properly counter your claims though, I have no objections. You see, Kakashi's Kamui is simply too fast for Kisame to react too. Naruto, who was about to be momentarily warped by Kamui, was saved by Kakashi's near instant Kamui. Obito, the Kamui master was left in awe. But like I said, I'm not the debater here.

Winner: DrProof

 

[Kages]

Kages

You started out pretty well, and I liked the way you used Kakashi's moniker to his advantage. At that stage, you were being realistic, and you seemed to have backed up your claims pretty well, it was a pretty decent first post if I may say so myself. Excluding your mystical palm assumption, which I'm not sure where you got that from. Kakashi is no medical nin... I also liked the fact you were able to back up some of your claims with early manga facts, good job. Kakashi's speed advantage also seemed to be on point.

Kages, overall though, your arguments were mainly centralised on speculation, and speculation alone. It seems as if you've built your argument on Kisame standing still, allowing Kakashi to proceed with your said argument. I mean, mystical palm? Not really. I also believe you could have capitalized on Kamuis' speed, and used it against Proof. It's a manga fact that Kakashi's Kamui is faster than Obito's, by quite a bit, shown where he was able to warp Naruto at near instantaneous speed. I also disagree with Kisame being held down with Kakashi's dogs. You see, I think you're mistaking Kisame for Zabuza, which is a mistake in it's own right. Kisame has been shown to break Mokuton: Stock. Considering Gai just destroyed him, and Yamato was suppressing his chakra, that's a darn good strength feat. Let's be honest here, one swing from Samehada would murder all of those dogs. I also noticed you failed to counter Proof's comments, but instead changed Kakashi's counters multiple times. Also, I believe you're mistaken on Earth walls capabilities. It's simply a technique to provide protection from head on attacks. Using it in a water dome does absolutely nothing. Using Kamui on the water dome is quite iffy. You see, the water dome covers a 360 degree radius, wherein Kakashi can only focus his Kamui on one side at a time. I believe if he were to Kamui the water dome, and if he can, his chakra toll would take a huge plunge...

All in all, mediocre post, at best.

DrProof

You began your counter-argument very well, as you were able to counter every point Kages displayed. You provided facts, manga pages, and databook pages, making your argument all the more solid.

Your arguments concerning the water dome was spot on, as Kisame is fused with a chakra absorbing tool. I also agree on the general basis of Kisame outlasting Kakashi, meaning Kakashi cannot keep copying Kisame's jutsu, as he'd be depleted of chakra rather fast. Considering Kisame's large scale Suiton techniques, I doubt Kakashi could maintain it. I did, however disagree with your kamui argument. As Kages failed to properly counter your claims though, I have no objections. You see, Kakashi's Kamui is simply too fast for Kisame to react too. Naruto, who was about to be momentarily warped by Kamui, was saved by Kakashi's near instant Kamui. Obito, the Kamui master was left in awe. But like I said, I'm not the debater here.

Winner: DrProof

It was fun while it lasted

Edit- The reason I didn't prove Kamui on Kisame wrong was because I knew he was gonna keep debating and speculating some things, and I thought that some of the judges will believe him :y

 

[Penguin]

At least he didn't rage quit! Congratz Doctor. Maybe next time Kage.

 

[DrProof]

It was fun while it lasted

Edit- The reason I didn't prove Kamui on Kisame wrong was because I knew he was gonna keep debating and speculating some things, and I thought that some of the judges will believe him :y

I didn't speculate Kamui was chakra lol. I didn't speculate that Samehada can absorb chakra (kamui). However the judge obviously disagreed that Kamui's speed would probably get the better of Kisame. But due to anyone trying to contradict that Kamui isn't chakra it would be moot.

 

[Kages]

At least he didn't rage quit! Congratz Doctor. Maybe next time Kage.

I still didn't lose.. There are two judges left xd

 

[SilverSlick]

At least he didn't rage quit! Congratz Doctor. Maybe next time Kage.

There's still 2 other judges and me if necessary.

 

[DrProof]

At least he didn't rage quit! Congratz Doctor. Maybe next time Kage.

Still two judges left (including SilverSlick if a judge isn't on)

 

[Bijuu13]

That was weak U_U

 

[Penguin]

Oops, my bad. This is my first debate. Good luck Kage!

 

[DrProof]

That was weak U_U

I agree. Partially fault my as I had to debate against Owarij which devoted most of my time/intelligence in our thread.

You must be registered for see links

 

[Kages]

That was weak U_U

What was?

Oops, my bad. This is my first debate. Good luck Kage!

Thank you

 

[CharlieBundels]

It was fun while it lasted

Edit- The reason I didn't prove Kamui on Kisame wrong was because I knew he was gonna keep debating and speculating some things, and I thought that some of the judges will believe him :y

I actually disagreed with Proof on Kamui, but you just couldn't counter him properly. Btw, Kamui is chakra based. It's a debate bro, you have to throw your arguments across.

 

[Kages]

I actually disagreed with Proof on Kamui, but you just couldn't counter him properly. Btw, Kamui is chakra based. It's a debate bro, you have to throw your arguments across.

Agreed, this was my second debate so yeah It was sort of hard to counter that arguement though since Kamui is confusing when facing an opponent like Kisame or Preta Path :y

 

[Souji]

Kages

-Your argument for using Lightning Cutter in Water Dome is very feasible. Even if Samehada would be able to absorb the technique, it would still cause some damage to Kisame. However, you failed to capitalize on Samehada's pickiness or distates (remember when Kisame himself stated that Samehada does not like Fire Technique Chakra? The same principle (while speculation at that point) could be applied to lightning style jutsu.

-Yes, the Sharingan is capable of copying almost every non-KKG technique in the NV. However, this does not mean that copying a technique means that the character can counter it immediately, as it is inherently independent on the user's chakra levels. Meaning, Kakashi's chakra levels may not be enough to be able to counter something like Water Dome with an equal Water Dome (or the Shark Bomb jutsu). When concerning elemental releases, it is also dependent on the environment, so this point is just a future reminder.

-Unfortunately, while Kakashi has the strength to counter Samehada, it is most likely that his own chakra would be absorbed by grazing blows, and since Samehada is a sentient being, it can attack irregularly, causing more trouble for Kakashi. Kages, you should have capitalized on the Sharingan's perception abilities combined with Kakashi's natural fast speeds as a counter argument to DrProof's statements about Kisame's taijutsu (Kakashi has the natural speed to be able to avoid Kisame's attacks, etc.)

-Kamui is every Kakashi fanboy's trump card. And yes, no one here will deny its effectiveness. I will comment on DrProof's statements regarding Kamui absorption later. Your "one shot" argument, while easily being able to be accused of fanboyism, is actually possible.

DrProof

- Proof, instead on focusing on Kakashi's weaknesses (average chakra reserves, MS limited effectiveness), you based a good portion of your counterargument with the statement that Kisame can absorb Kamui. Now, Kamui is a S/T ninjutsu, and as far as we know (in the manga or the anime), the only known way to counter such a jutsu is to oppose it with another S/T jutsu. For example, it would be quite a feat if Kisame were able to somehow "absorb" Minato's FTG, which we can safely assume is near impossible due to the technique's speed. If Minato himself stated that Kamui was a more versatile jutsu than FTG, would it stand to reason that Samehada couldn't absorb Kamui?

- Other than that, your counters to Kages's arguments were very well written and justified (same goes to both of you, very well argued)

Outcome

Kages: Wins the Kamui argument (DrProof's counter was purely speculation and not feasible (in my eyes))

DrProof: Wins the Water Dome, Water Release Argument (although you could have used more arguments aimed towards Kakashi's weaknesses)

Overall, with 2/3 arguments won, DrProof takes the victory. However, I extend congratulations to both of the debaters for presenting no bias and putting in their best efforts.

Some notes for future debates:

- Please specify what stage of the plot the character is in (ex. Prewar or War Kakashi? a significant difference between these two Kakashis feat wise)

- Specify an intent to kill (or not); comment on mentalities, personalities, etc.

This was a very good debate, and I hope everyone who participated and viewed it enjoyed it.

 

[Kages]

Kages

-Your argument for using Lightning Cutter in Water Dome is very feasible. Even if Samehada would be able to absorb the technique, it would still cause some damage to Kisame. However, you failed to capitalize on Samehada's pickiness or distates (remember when Kisame himself stated that Samehada does not like Fire Technique Chakra? The same principle (while speculation at that point) could be applied to lightning style jutsu.

-Yes, the Sharingan is capable of copying almost every non-KKG technique in the NV. However, this does not mean that copying a technique means that the character can counter it immediately, as it is inherently independent on the user's chakra levels. Meaning, Kakashi's chakra levels may not be enough to be able to counter something like Water Dome with an equal Water Dome (or the Shark Bomb jutsu). When concerning elemental releases, it is also dependent on the environment, so this point is just a future reminder.

-Unfortunately, while Kakashi has the strength to counter Samehada, it is most likely that his own chakra would be absorbed by grazing blows, and since Samehada is a sentient being, it can attack irregularly, causing more trouble for Kakashi. Kages, you should have capitalized on the Sharingan's perception abilities combined with Kakashi's natural fast speeds as a counter argument to DrProof's statements about Kisame's taijutsu (Kakashi has the natural speed to be able to avoid Kisame's attacks, etc.)

-Kamui is every Kakashi fanboy's trump card. And yes, no one here will deny its effectiveness. I will comment on DrProof's statements regarding Kamui absorption later. Your "one shot" argument, while easily being able to be accused of fanboyism, is actually possible.

DrProof

- Proof, instead on focusing on Kakashi's weaknesses (average chakra reserves, MS limited effectiveness), you based a good portion of your counterargument with the statement that Kisame can absorb Kamui. Now, Kamui is a S/T ninjutsu, and as far as we know (in the manga or the anime), the only known way to counter such a jutsu is to oppose it with another S/T jutsu. For example, it would be quite a feat if Kisame were able to somehow "absorb" Minato's FTG, which we can safely assume is near impossible due to the technique's speed. If Minato himself stated that Kamui was a more versatile jutsu than FTG, would it stand to reason that Samehada couldn't absorb Kamui?

- Other than that, your counters to Kages's arguments were very well written and justified (same goes to both of you, very well argued)

Outcome

Kages: Wins the Kamui argument (DrProof's counter was purely speculation and not feasible (in my eyes))

DrProof: Wins the Water Dome, Water Release Argument (although you could have used more arguments aimed towards Kakashi's weaknesses)

Overall, with 2/3 arguments won, DrProof takes the victory. However, I extend congratulations to both of the debaters for presenting no bias and putting in their best efforts.

Some notes for future debates:

- Please specify what stage of the plot the character is in (ex. Prewar or War Kakashi? a significant difference between these two Kakashis feat wise)

- Specify an intent to kill (or not); comment on mentalities, personalities, etc.

This was a very good debate, and I hope everyone who participated and viewed it enjoyed it.

Well f***. Lol Proof, wanna do another debate please? wease:

 

[DrProof]

Well f***. Lol Proof, wanna do another debate please? wease:

Sure. We need people to give us characters.

@CharlieBundels want to give us our matchup? I want a character that I haven't used before.

 

[Kages]

Sure. We need people to give us characters.

@CharlieBundels want to give us our matchup? I want a character that I haven't used before.

Alright Looking forward to it

 

[SilverSlick]

Is my input still needed?

 

[Kages]

Is my input still needed?

No but I would still like it