Kabuto vs Madara

Blaze Release

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Location: VOTE
Intel: Madara knows of mugen onsa. Kabuto knows of Madara's sharingan genjutsu prowess
Restrictions: E/MS. Rinnegan(Susanoo included). JJ. Mokuton. SM. Edo tensi.
Mindset: IC
Distance: 20m

Now, i believe in VS threads (or generally speaking) we restrict ourselves to feats.
So this thread is slightly different.

You can use techniques that a character hasn't shown.
But as long as you can come up with solid reasons why they most likely know/have these technique, it is viable.

So for example Madara hasn't shown, uchiha kaejin, izanami, or any other technique associated with the uchiha etc. Or kabuto didn't show all the techniques of the sound 5. So you could use these techniques (and others), as long as you could make solid claims for them and its viable.
 

Bronze

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Without harnessing Senjutsu sensory as a replacement for blindness, that means he would make eye-contact with Sharingan. So Base Kabuto is no different from Orochimaru, meaning he gets one-shotted with Genjutsu.
 

KidGamer65

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Madara stands no chance at beating Kabuto. Madara is heavily lacking when it comes to firepower, and that is what he needs to put Kabuto down. His most powerful technique in 3-Tomoe form would probably be his Katon, and that gets taken by Kabuto and then shrugged off with Oral Rebirth. Then we have the Sound 5 Techs that Kabuto has access to.

Madara doesn't stand a chance.
 

ARGUS

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3 Tomoe alive Madara
Yep, Madara doesnt stand a chance

--Knowing of mugen onsa dooesnt stop madara from getting paralysed, as once hes paralysed, kabutoo slits himm in half through a chakra scalpel

--madara also has no means to hurting kabuto here, his katons are garbage here, in front of oral rebirth and snake skin, and when kabuto can also use his suitons aided with a water source to counter them,

--Approaching in CQC is also meaningless when kabuto has liquifying to render all physical attacks uselesss and can use his snake based attackss to eat madara up,

--having manda 2 is also helpful for kabuto when madara has no way of taking it out, and when attempting genjutsu on it would just get the snake taken out of it through partner method,
 

madvictory

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Madara wins.
Fire Style: Great Fire Annihilation destroys any possible items that Kabuto could control via Organic Style.
Not just that, but Madara's Katon definitely cannot be dodged by Kabuto, as it's enormous.
 

Blaze Release

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Kabuto rapes.
U sure?
I never create rape threads lol.
Madara has a chance, believe me.

Madara stands no chance at beating Kabuto. Madara is heavily lacking when it comes to firepower, and that is what he needs to put Kabuto down. His most powerful technique in 3-Tomoe form would probably be his Katon, and that gets taken by Kabuto and then shrugged off with Oral Rebirth. Then we have the Sound 5 Techs that Kabuto has access to.

Madara doesn't stand a chance.
Remember he gets every uchiha based technique.
Also remember that oral rebirth consumes alot of chakra. I am willing to bet that madara can produce far more katons than kabuto can produce the oral rebirth. Surely he cannot rely on just that.

Sound 5 techniques are good, but without senjutsu boost im not sure what exactly they can do to Madara. Not when 3T Madara gets all uchiha based technique


Yep, Madara doesnt stand a chance

--Knowing of mugen onsa dooesnt stop madara from getting paralysed, as once hes paralysed, kabutoo slits himm in half through a chakra scalpel
But knowledge helps greatly here.
For a start, as we saw with itachi/sasuke. They got themselves out via genjutsu.
Knowledge means Madara who can use the kage bunshin. may keep a bunshin close to him, therefore that bunshin is a way of getting him out of the illusion, by casting an illusion on the original

Secondly sound genjutsu travels through the air.







Wind has shown to be a greate counter to sound genjutsu as it distorts the air/blows away the sound.

Madara; war fan/uchiha return

Reference from DB4

--madara also has no means to hurting kabuto here, his katons are garbage here, in front of oral rebirth and snake skin, and when kabuto can also use his suitons aided with a water source to counter them, [/COLOR]
Read what i said to KidGamer about oral rebirth.
Yes Suiton is viable. But even then surely Kabuto hasn't shown that level of degree even with a water source to counter Madara's katon. It took mei a superior suiton user to kabuto to produce 2 high tier suiton techniques just to counter 1 katon from madara

--Approaching in CQC is also meaningless when kabuto has liquifying to render all physical attacks uselesss and can use his snake based attackss to eat madara up,[/COLOR]
Madara molests him in any CQC confrontations as we have seen just how good Madara is.
Top it off. He doesn't have his sage sensing to help him out here. Majority of his abilities will help survive the onslaught, but im not actually not sure how Kabuto is going to put Madara down.

Snake based techniques are posing 0 threats to somebody who is highly skilled like Madara.

--having manda 2 is also helpful for kabuto when madara has no way of taking it out, and when attempting genjutsu on it would just get the snake taken out of it through partner method, [/COLOR]
Such a large animal isn't going to get a chance at Madara.
Secondly his katons will damage manda 2 no matter how big it is.
Summons have a time limit before they have to leave, Manda 2 doesn't stay in the field forever.

Does Madara have senju dna?
(despite the restricted mokuton)
Nope no mokuton.

**** why am i, im my own threat arguing for Madara.
Meh i need to save my post for something else, hoepfully some Madara fan will take over
 
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KidGamer65

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Remember he gets every uchiha based technique.
Also remember that oral rebirth consumes alot of chakra. I am willing to bet that madara can produce far more katons than kabuto can produce the oral rebirth. Surely he cannot rely on just that.
I've given this a bit more thought, and I'll post a case for Madara. I mean, there has to be something he has that lets him stand a chance since you did make this thread.


OT: Madara can win.

-First of all, his chakra is far above Kabuto's chakra level by feats, no real comparison here. Kabuto doesn't have the feat of fighting at any extended period of time let alone fighting for 24 hours, with Mangekyo techniques no less. Oral Rebirth costs a shitload of chakra as Hebi Sasuke showed us against Itachi, while Katon doesn't cost anywhere near that amount. One Katon from Madara is all it takes for Kabuto to be roasted, and forced into using Oral Rebirth. If that cycle continues, he wears himself out while Madara

-As Blaze mentioned, with knowledge on Mugen Onsa, keeping clones nearby let him break out of the Genjutsu just like the Uchiha Bros did in the manga, and with knowledge, he can also counter by having a clone use a jutsu, so he can convert that into Wind with Uchiha Gaeshi, and blow the Sound away, and inflict some damage on Kabuto. There's also the fact that since Kabuto will most likely be off guard (since Madara is bound completely) and will charge in to finish him off once caught in the Genjutsu, he can hit Kabuto with Mirror Heaven and Earth Change, the same jutsu Itachi used on Kurenai to take her Genjutsu and apply it to herself instead. If he succeeds, Kabuto is the one trapped in Mugen Onsa, and then Madara swiftly finishes him off.

-Kabuto's CQC feats are limited, and he was only keeping up with people like Itachi AFTER he had his Sage boost, which increases all 3 forms of combat. Take that away, and Madara clowns him in CQC. Liquefying can be an issue, but Katon will evaporate the liquid, meaning Kabuto will die if he uses that, and it's not something that is passive like Suigetsu's since There's also the fact that Kabuto can't sense, so Madara can use Haijingakure to damage and blind him, allowing him to hit him hard while he's blinded.

-Kidomaru's webs are melted by Gouka Mekkyaku, or outright avoided altogether, same goes for his giant arrows since even the likes of Part 1 Neji was capable of at the very least, reacting to them. Kimimaro's Sawarabi no Mai is evaded, and any other bone jutsu he may take from Kimimaro are blocked with the Gunbai. Jiorobo's Doton is no issue either.

-Manda 2? Clones all using Juubi Sized Katon should damage it a bit. It's attacks are easily evaded by Madara, and then there is the fact that he can use Genjutsu. Partner Method can free them, but only if Madara lets Kabuto make contact with the snake.
 

Ken Masters

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what is this?

kabuto almost solo'd E/MS sasky and Edo-MS Itachi. 3-tomoe madara despite his legendary indra-chakra and gunbai skill can't beat kabuto dragon sage mode.

given madara his E/MS and he defeats kabuto with perfect stabilized susanoo.
 

Brother Numpsay

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I should jump in, as you really think Madara stands a chances here. So lets spice things up:

I see underrating in Kabuto's reserves here. He already has feats to take in and enter SM, which was stated that you need enormous amount of chakra reserves to do. Kabuto's is very near or even a bit higher then Naruto, war arc. Who fought in a battle for more then a day. Even the SA fought for more then a day. Regardless outlasting argument is not happening.

Katon is nearly useless in this fight. Whoever is defending Madara thinks its absolutely necessary to even use Oral Rebith. Wrong, we have canonically witness that simply hiding underground is a perfect move to do counter Katon[ ]. Something Kabuto has in his possession. In fact the wide AoE will have Madara lose line of sight to see where Kabuto went, which he takes advantage and take out his legs[ > ]. Then later either kills or gains an Uchiha body.

Not sure how serious people are, stating Katon is beating Manda 2. We literally saw Manda 1 counter Katon+Oil of the size of Juubi and somehow a superior version is going down? No, Manda 2 counters it the same ways and crushes/swipes around Madara in its path, or at least his clones. Genjutsu is not possible with a simple command to relies on its tongue instead of its eyes to track his enemy. Manda use brille, problem solved. .And time limits on summons depend on the summoning. Kabuto created Manda 2 so evidence is needed for your claim that he is limited.

Close quarters does not have to be Kabuto's forte to win this. Not when he was normal sensing and Sound 5+Oro to support him. Yes Kabuto does have sensing. Anyone disagreeing is outright denying manga. We already witness it when Kabuto had his snake track Naruto[ ]. And we also have a legitimate statement of Kabuto stating that he has sensory, past tense[ ]. Facing Kabuto in CQC is extremely dangerous as he can simply merge with you, the moment he uses Sakon's ability via Kisei Kikai no Jutsu. Kabuto slips in "torso Sakon" and have him assassinate him then and there. Not only is that dangerous, but simply attempting to beat up Kabuto with Orochimaru's white snake poison has him paralyze for damaging him.

So far you stated that you aren't sure how Sound 5 (and Oro) is being useful here and I already address using Sakon and Oro, ending this battle.

Kidomaru: No method to break his webs, in Madara's arsenal, when it took a higher version of Fire to beat this. Kidomaru's gold defense also blocks all chakra so there goes any attempt that can roast him like Katon Lol.

Jirobo: His hercule strength can dis balance[ ] ( ) Madara into trapping him in Doton: Doro. Madara has no method of breaking this wall free, as it will not only absorb his chakra but use it itself to rebuilt and repair any damage as fast he his attempts.

Tayuya: I fail to see how Bushins is working here when we have witness that Tayuya Genjutsu was able to shut down limited use of chakra. If something happens to the orignal then it will disrupt Madara's chakra flow and they go poof. Much like how Susanoo no longer was capable for being used under the genjutsu. Yin Base techs were shown to be useable here. Regardless its very hard to judge the ability without SM, but its clear the Clones can be effected as we have seen Naruto and Kakashi being hit by genjutsu.

Your wind counter is only possible after absorbing a technique with Gunbai.


All and all this is massive rape here.
 
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TRE MERCER

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I should jump in, as you really think Madara stands a chances here. So lets spice things up:

I see underrating in Kabuto's reserves here. He already has feats to take in and enter SM, which was stated that you need enormous amount of chakra reserves to do. Kabuto's is very near or even a bit higher then Naruto, war arc. Who fought in a battle for more then a day. Even the SA fought for more then a day. Regardless outlasting argument is not happening.

Katon is nearly useless in this fight. Whoever is defending Madara thinks its absolutely necessary to even use Oral Rebith. Wrong, we have canonically witness that simply hiding underground is a perfect move to do counter Katon[ ]. Something Kabuto has in his possession. In fact the wide AoE will have Madara lose line of sight to see where Kabuto went, which he takes advantage and take out his legs[ > ]. Then later either kills or gains an Uchiha body.

Not sure how serious people are, stating Katon is beating Manda 2. We literally saw Manda 1 counter Katon+Oil of the size of Juubi and somehow a superior version is going down? No, Manda 2 counters it the same ways and crushes/swipes around Madara in its path, or at least his clones. Genjutsu is not possible with a simple command to relies on its tongue instead of its eyes to track his enemy. Manda use brille, problem solved. .And time limits on summons depend on the summoning. Kabuto created Manda 2 so evidence is needed for your claim that he is limited.

Close quarters does not have to be Kabuto's forte to win this. Not when he was normal sensing and Sound 5+Oro to support him. Yes Kabuto does have sensing. Anyone disagreeing is outright denying manga. We already witness it when Kabuto had his snake track Naruto[ ]. And we also have a legitimate statement of Kabuto stating that he has sensory, past tense[ ]. Facing Kabuto in CQC is extremely dangerous as he can simply merge with you, the moment he uses Sakon's ability via Kisei Kikai no Jutsu. Kabuto slips in "torso Sakon" and have him assassinate him then and there. Not only is that dangerous, but simply attempting to beat up Kabuto with Orochimaru's white snake poison has him paralyze for damaging him.

So far you stated that you aren't sure how Sound 5 (and Oro) is being useful here and I already address using Sakon and Oro, ending this battle.

Kidomaru: No method to break his webs, in Madara's arsenal, when it took a higher version of Fire to beat this. Kidomaru's gold defense also blocks all chakra so there goes any attempt that can roast him like Katon Lol.

Jirobo: His hercule strength can dis balance[ ] ( ) Madara into trapping him in Doton: Doro. Madara has no method of breaking this wall free, as it will not only absorb his chakra but use it itself to rebuilt and repair any damage as fast he his attempts.

Tayuya: I fail to see how Bushins is working here when we have witness that Tayuya Genjutsu was able to shut down limited use of chakra. If something happens to the orignal then it will disrupt Madara's chakra flow and they go poof. Much like how Susanoo no longer was capable for being used under the genjutsu. Yin Base techs were shown to be useable here. Regardless its very hard to judge the ability without SM, but its clear the Clones can be effected as we have seen Naruto and Kakashi being hit by genjutsu.

Your wind counter is only possible after absorbing a technique with Gunbai.


All and all this is massive rape here.
For once EJblack solo's.
 

Beans2

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I've given this a bit more thought, and I'll post a case for Madara. I mean, there has to be something he has that lets him stand a chance since you did make this thread.


OT: Madara can win.

-First of all, his chakra is far above Kabuto's chakra level by feats, no real comparison here. Kabuto doesn't have the feat of fighting at any extended period of time let alone fighting for 24 hours, with Mangekyo techniques no less. Oral Rebirth costs a shitload of chakra as Hebi Sasuke showed us against Itachi, while Katon doesn't cost anywhere near that amount. One Katon from Madara is all it takes for Kabuto to be roasted, and forced into using Oral Rebirth. If that cycle continues, he wears himself out while Madara

-As Blaze mentioned, with knowledge on Mugen Onsa, keeping clones nearby let him break out of the Genjutsu just like the Uchiha Bros did in the manga, and with knowledge, he can also counter by having a clone use a jutsu, so he can convert that into Wind with Uchiha Gaeshi, and blow the Sound away, and inflict some damage on Kabuto. There's also the fact that since Kabuto will most likely be off guard (since Madara is bound completely) and will charge in to finish him off once caught in the Genjutsu, he can hit Kabuto with Mirror Heaven and Earth Change, the same jutsu Itachi used on Kurenai to take her Genjutsu and apply it to herself instead. If he succeeds, Kabuto is the one trapped in Mugen Onsa, and then Madara swiftly finishes him off.

-Kabuto's CQC feats are limited, and he was only keeping up with people like Itachi AFTER he had his Sage boost, which increases all 3 forms of combat. Take that away, and Madara clowns him in CQC. Liquefying can be an issue, but Katon will evaporate the liquid, meaning Kabuto will die if he uses that, and it's not something that is passive like Suigetsu's since There's also the fact that Kabuto can't sense, so Madara can use Haijingakure to damage and blind him, allowing him to hit him hard while he's blinded.

-Kidomaru's webs are melted by Gouka Mekkyaku, or outright avoided altogether, same goes for his giant arrows since even the likes of Part 1 Neji was capable of at the very least, reacting to them. Kimimaro's Sawarabi no Mai is evaded, and any other bone jutsu he may take from Kimimaro are blocked with the Gunbai. Jiorobo's Doton is no issue either.

-Manda 2? Clones all using Juubi Sized Katon should damage it a bit. It's attacks are easily evaded by Madara, and then there is the fact that he can use Genjutsu. Partner Method can free them, but only if Madara lets Kabuto make contact with the snake.
Pretty sure Manda 2 laughs at Madara's katons considering that even the original Manda could tank Jiraiya's oil-fueled katon for a few seconds before needing to shed its skin. Jiraiya's katon which is fueled with oil is a more potent and powerful attack than Gouka Mekkyaku, and Manda II >>>>>>>> Manda. Anyway, Manda 2 can avoid katons the same way Manda did, by going underground to avoid the flames then snapping up Madara in his jaws with an attack ...and Madara doesn't even have any feats with using kage bunshins so we don't know how skilled he is with them, and could potentially just be a waste of chakra if they get killed. Genjutsu could be problematic but Kabuto stated that and we already know snakes can so eye contact can surely be avoided.

Kabuto is way faster than Madara is in and schools him in CQC with superior speed + liquification.

Genjutsu is not a problem since the snake attached to his belly could probably break him out via partner method.

Katons can be tanked with Kidomaru's sticky gold armour or Kimimaro's bone armour (if he can use those), or he protects himself with Jirobo's earth dome. Karin's healing (or his own technique which he used to defend against Rasengan) can work to tank it, and if nothing else, Oral Rebirth. Though, katons can be avoided with Hiding Like a Mole to begin with.

As for how he deals with Madara offensively, it's simply a matter of catching him off guard and then following through with Sawarabi no Mae. Kabuto can use snakes to engage Madara then use SNM to pierce him, and he can use it at close range because he can tank Kimimaro's jutsu with his own liquification (he can also hide inside Jirobo's earth dome so the bones would come as a surprise). There are other ways for Kabuto to win as well.
 

TRE MERCER

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Madara obiviously wins, he has way more chakra and his Katon could roast him again and again....

His Taijutsu is also enough to beat Kabuto to death

end of thread
Katon are useless when Manda II can jump in the way for him and then shed his skin. Taijutsu skills are useless since he has a water body.
 

AlphaMaleLion

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Katon are useless when Manda II can jump in the way for him and then shed his skin. Taijutsu skills are useless since he has a water body.
Snakes can only shed their skin once in a while, so i suppose its the same with Manda....

So Madara could just roast him again after he shed his skin and this time the snake would die
 
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