Actually, no, it does not have greater DC, or power.
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Both likely have comparable explosions. It looks as if they span about a mountain range. The height of the cone and the distance making the mountains look tiny makes the juubi TBB look more impressive, but look at the mountains at its base. There are only so many mountains it covers.
I pray to god that you are joking with this BS. There is no comparison. Saying that
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and that are comparable is either you trolling, or you ignoring the panel, cause anyone with functioning eyes will tell you which one is larger.
The distance is only going to make it look smaller than normal, thus less impressive, not more impressive. Not sure why you are going on about the height. The fact that it's that large, means is that much more powerful than Naruto's standard Bijuu dama. Naruto's isn't larger in width or height, nor is it stronger. That simple.
Not sure if you are trying this hard just so Naruto won't lose, or if you really are that blind.
Regardless, the Juubi TBB cannot be more powerful than a rikkudo TBB, I'll touch on this when I have time.
If only he didn't already take damage from a vastly inferior Bijuu Dama. If only the V3 Super Juubidama>>>V2 Standard Juubidama>>>Naruto's standard Bijuu Dama+Sasuke's PS Chidori.
WTF. Juubi TBB is far far far above >>> Rikudo TBB. [/B]Juubi lived thousand years before the Rikudo[/B], it is the epitome of Chakra. The cone TBB you are showing is way more destructive and he wasn't even at 50% power lmao.
@bold. What the heck did I just read? The juubi was born when Kaguya fused with the holy tree in order to confront her sons. The holy tree existed for thousands of years, but the juubi is younger than Hagoromo.
The juubi is not the epitome of chakra. Get that out of your head. It's the chakra fruit that's the epitome of chakra.
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The Juubi's hype of being the strongest chakra was debunked a long time ago.
No, it's not more destructive. Now that I got back, I can get into why it can't be weaker.
Naruto's tail=Rikkudo PS slash.
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This is what a Rikkudo PS slash does.
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The mere fragments of the meteor it cut up are the size of multiple mountains. Those meteors are about the size of the juubi's TBB, and Sasuke bisected them. However, such force is equaled with the mere tails of Rikkudo Kurama. Needless to say, TBB>>>>>Physical attributes of a biju. Therefore, the Rikkudo TBB has enough force to completely obliterate many, many mountains in one shot regardless of what size argument you're making.
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The Juubi can stop a Bijuu TBB with his hand[/QUOTE]
Yeah, so Rikkudo PS, which has far superior attributes to the juubi, did not catch a TBB, yet the juubi will? So Rikkudo Kurama, which has far more phsyical strength than the juubi, can't catch the Juubi's TBBs either? Bye Bye logic.
@bold. What the heck did I just read? The juubi was born when Kaguya fused with the holy tree in order to confront her sons. The holy tree existed for thousands of years, but the juubi is younger than Hagoromo.
The juubi is not the epitome of chakra. Get that out of your head. It's the chakra fruit that's the epitome of chakra.
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The Juubi's hype of being the strongest chakra was debunked a long time ago.
No, it's not more destructive. Now that I got back, I can get into why it can't be weaker.
Naruto's tail=Rikkudo PS slash.
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This is what a Rikkudo PS slash does.
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The mere fragments of the meteor it cut up are the size of multiple mountains. Those meteors are about the size of the juubi's TBB, and Sasuke bisected them. However, such force is equaled with the mere tails of Rikkudo Kurama. Needless to say, TBB>>>>>Physical attributes of a biju. Therefore, the Rikkudo TBB has enough force to completely obliterate many, many mountains in one shot regardless of what size argument you're making.
Lol, your argument is weak as all hell. Sasuke's PS Slash isn't anywhere near as strong as the Juubi's Bijuu Dama, so Naruto's Bijuu Dama being stronger isn't proof that it's stronger than the Juubi's Bijuu Dama, and since we have scans that show Juubidama>RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama. There is literally no debate to be had on this topic.
@bold. What the heck did I just read? The juubi was born when Kaguya fused with the holy tree in order to confront her sons. The holy tree existed for thousands of years, but the juubi is younger than Hagoromo.
Wait, wait.... You are really trusting what you are saying ? :|
This is not even near the size of the Juubi's TBB, you're drunk let alone Sasuke CT's.
However, such force is equaled with the mere tails of Rikkudo Kurama. Needless to say, TBB>>>>>Physical attributes of a biju. Therefore, the Rikkudo TBB has enough force to completely obliterate many, many mountains in one shot regardless of what size argument you're making.
The Juubi TBB would have oneshot all the meteors, your post is irrelevant and you are retarded, I don't even know why am I debating with such a retard :leaf:
Yeah, so Rikkudo PS, which has far superior attributes to the juubi, did not catch a TBB, yet the juubi will?So Rikkudo Kurama, which has far more phsyical strength than the juubi, can't catch the Juubi's TBBs either? Bye Bye logic.
The distance is only going to make it look smaller than normal, thus less impressive, not more impressive. Not sure why you are going on about the height. The fact that it's that large, means is that much more powerful than Naruto's standard Bijuu dama. Naruto's isn't larger in width or height, nor is it stronger. That simple.[/QUOTE]
No, anybody that just takes a glance at a distance will just assume that it's bigger if you don't count the mountains. The base of the cone is about 11 mountains wide give or take.
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It looks big because, far away, we have a slanted angle.
Here's what part of the width of the Rikkudo TBB is like.
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About 5 mountains go through just part of the width of the Rikkudo TBB. If we were given a horizontal shot like the Juubi TBB, it'd look similarly impressive (but not towering as it's a sphere, not a cone)
But, you know what? Instead of being given a far away and slanted view of the Juubi TBB, let's take a look at the up close and personal examples.
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When we're actually given close shots, it doesn't look nearly so impressive as this.
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Yet, this is the same attack. How do you explain this Kidgamer? If it's so freaking huge, why is the up close shots less impressive than the far away? Simple, the slanted view makes it hard to see, so when we see tiny mountains, we assume it means that the TBB is so much more large, but when we come up close, we see that the difference isn't as big as expected.
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The Rikkudo TBB could easily have that effect.
Lol, don't bother. Whatever explanation you are going to come up with is irrelevant in the face of cold hard manga panels.
As I've said, the meteors are about as wide as the Juubi TBBs base, yet, there's enough force to bisect it. For the Rikkudo TBB to be much, much stronger than this force, it'd break the entire meteor altogether, which would definitely equal the scale of the juubi.
Don't turn your brain off just because of size. Ask yourself this. Why in the world would Naruto have the equivalent power of a focused juubi (he is=to a juubi jinchuriki) yet not have a TBB that is at least as powerful as the juubi itself? The idea that the unfocused juubi>focused juubi makes no blasted sense! That's what eats me up! This shouldn't even be a debate. It should be equal. Naruto's chakra quality is as good as the juubi's. That's a definite. So why would the TBB be inferior to something of equivalent chakra potency?
If only he didn't already take damage from a vastly inferior Bijuu Dama. If only the V3 Super Juubidama>>>V2 Standard Juubidama>>>Naruto's standard Bijuu Dama+Sasuke's PS Chidori.[/QUOTE]
How in the heck would these meteors not be the same size as a juubi TBB?
The Juubi TBB would have oneshot all the meteors, your post is irrelevant and you are retarded, I don't even know why am I debating with such a retard :leaf:
Yes, it would have one-shot it. However, if the tail is capable of doing what I showed, then the TBB of Rikkudo Kurama would also one-shot those meteors.
@Bold Juubi reflected a TBB from Gyuki without any difficulty, wtf are you talkin about ?
You're right, Juubi TBB is way bigger than the meteors and Juubi wasn't even at max Lol.
Yes, it would have one-shot it. However, if the tail is capable of doing what I showed, then the TBB of Rikkudo Kurama would also one-shot those meteors.
No, anybody that just takes a glance at a distance will just assume that it's bigger if you don't count the mountains. The base of the cone is about 11 mountains wide give or take.
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It looks big because, far away, we have a slanted angle.
Here's what part of the width of the Rikkudo TBB is like.
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About 5 mountains go through just part of the width of the Rikkudo TBB. If we were given a horizontal shot like the Juubi TBB, it'd look similarly impressive (but not towering as it's a sphere, not a cone)
What in the world are you talking about with this slanted angle business? There is no "slanted" angle. That angle is the same as the one shown for Naruto's Bijuu Dama. The only difference is the zoom, and that's it.
But, you know what? Instead of being given a far away and slanted view of the Juubi TBB, let's take a look at the up close and personal examples.
The fact it's far away makes it seem smaller, thus less impressive. This is basic perspective. Not sure what slanted view you are going on about here, considering it's the same view we always get for Bijuu Dama explosions.
When we're actually given close shots, it doesn't look nearly so impressive as this.
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Yet, this is the same attack. How do you explain this Kidgamer? If it's so freaking huge, why is the up close shots less impressive than the far away? Simple, the slanted view makes it hard to see, so when we see tiny mountains, we assume it means that the TBB is so much more large, but when we come up close, we see that the difference isn't as big as expected.
I figured you'd pull some BS like this. None of those scans show the raw explosion, nor are they zoomed out enough to allow the full explosion to be captured. So I'm not interested in them. That's like me taking a portion of the blast and saying it's not impressive even though we have a clear cut scan of the blast size and radius. You are just trying your hardest to deny what is obviously fact.
The slanted view doesn't make anything hard to see considering there is no slanted view. The Juubidama is bigger. Plain and simple. Compare Kurama and Susanoo to the explosion of their combo attack, and then compare the Juubi (similar size w/ Naruto and Sasuke's Avatars) to the total size (not just the width, that's a ridiculous comparison) to the Juubidama and you'll see that the Juubidama is much larger.
As I've said, the meteors are about as wide as the Juubi TBBs base, yet, there's enough force to bisect it. For the Rikkudo TBB to be much, much stronger than this force, it'd break the entire meteor altogether, which would definitely equal the scale of the juubi.
If only the base of the explosion was the only part of the explosion. Showing me the fragments being as wide or as large as the base of the explosion means absolutely nothing when we are talking about the WHOLE EXPLOSION. Lol. The Meteor is as big as the Shinju's root. Dwarfed by the Juubidama, but it dwarfs the Juubi, but cutting a rock the size of the Shinju root isn't proof that it's stronger than the Juubidama when the Juubidama's blast radius allows it to achieve the same exact thing, but a million times more potent.
Unless you are crazy enough to believe that this trunk is as large as the Juubidama's explosion, there is no debate to be had here. [
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]
Don't turn your brain off just because of size. Ask yourself this. Why in the world would Naruto have the equivalent power of a focused juubi (he is=to a juubi jinchuriki) yet not have a TBB that is at least as powerful as the juubi itself? The idea that the unfocused juubi>focused juubi makes no blasted sense! That's what eats me up! This shouldn't even be a debate. It should be equal. Naruto's chakra quality is as good as the juubi's. That's a definite. So why would the TBB be inferior to something of equivalent chakra potency?
Lol, I'm not interested in your logic, or what you think should be. We've seen that the Juubi's Bijuu Dama creates a superior explosion to Naruto's Bijuu Dama. So that's the end of the story. Whether or not you think Naruto's attack should be much stronger based on whatever logic or reasoning is irrelevant when we have clear cut panels proving you wrong.
That Rikudou TBB-Chidori explosion's width is easily calculable by using the valley as a reference. I'll post results tomorrow, should get you the idea.
What in the world are you talking about with this slanted angle business? There is no "slanted" angle. That angle is the same as the one shown for Naruto's Bijuu Dama. The only difference is the zoom, and that's it.
The fact it's far away makes it seem smaller, thus less impressive. This is basic perspective. Not sure what slanted view you are going on about here, considering it's the same view we always get for Bijuu Dama explosions.
I figured you'd pull some BS like this. None of those scans show the raw explosion, nor are they zoomed out enough to allow the full explosion to be captured. So I'm not interested in them. That's like me taking a portion of the blast and saying it's not impressive even though we have a clear cut scan of the blast size and radius. You are just trying your hardest to deny what is obviously fact.
You don't get to pick and choose. I'm not exclusively relying on them, but shown additional scans to illustrate my point. These are valid in addition to what I've shown. The lake showed the explosion in process (albeit underwater). The village showed the damage done by it, which can only be more massive than the explosion itself due to shock waves. The TBB didn't land that far away, as it was visible by the village. Although it's not close, it's also not incredibly far, as it's only the size of a biju.
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The best argument you can make for that perspective is that the width of the explosion is doubled, and that's at best.
The slanted view doesn't make anything hard to see considering there is no slanted view. The Juubidama is bigger. Plain and simple. Compare Kurama and Susanoo to the explosion of their combo attack, and then compare the Juubi (similar size w/ Naruto and Sasuke's Avatars) to the total size (not just the width, that's a ridiculous comparison) to the Juubidama and you'll see that the Juubidama is much larger.
If only the base of the explosion was the only part of the explosion. Showing me the fragments being as wide or as large as the base of the explosion means absolutely nothing when we are talking about the WHOLE EXPLOSION. Lol.
Alright, I'll concede on this point. The explosion is bigger, but it shouldn't be more powerful.
The Meteor is as big as the Shinju's root. Dwarfed by the Juubidama, but it dwarfs the Juubi, but cutting a rock the size of the Shinju root isn't proof that it's stronger than the Juubidama when the Juubidama's blast radius allows it to achieve the same exact thing, but a million times more potent.
Unless you are crazy enough to believe that this trunk is as large as the Juubidama's explosion, there is no debate to be had here. [
Heck no Kidgamer! Your arguments have been strong right until now. That's an optical illusion from the meteors being so far away, making it look smaller. It's larger than the shinju trunk.
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Take a look at the fragment VS mountains, now take a look at the root. The fragments themselves are the size of the root, or at least the stump, which only appears to only have the width of several mountains. The root isn't the same size as the whole meteor.
Lol, I'm not interested in your logic, or what you think should be. We've seen that the Juubi's Bijuu Dama creates a superior explosion to Naruto's Bijuu Dama. So that's the end of the story. Whether or not you think Naruto's attack should be much stronger based on whatever logic or reasoning is irrelevant when we have clear cut panels proving you wrong.
Well you should, because this isn't the only time when something stronger hasn't been bigger.
SM enhances all ninjutsu, that's a given. That's a fact. Yet, let's look at ninjutsu VS senjutsu back to back.
FRS
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No size difference in FRS, even though the latter is clearly stronger.
TBB
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Are you telling me that, since there explosions are the same size, there's not power difference despite the fact that the manga and databook supports the fact that the latter examples are significantly stronger than the former?
Size isn't everything. Let's not forget that even the full-powered ones can't even fully destroy the tree that spawned them (which is significantly weaker than the shinju)
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And yet, Lava FRS bisected the holy tree, something much more powerful and larger (not that I'm arguing it's stronger)
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Since we're holding so tightly to manga scans and disregarding reasoning in addition to them, then I guess that makes Lava FRS of a non-powered up Naruto>any TBB. Right there, I created a loophole in using this reasoning.
For Naruto's chakra quality (which is equivalent to a focused juubi jinchuriki) should not have TBBs that are inferior to the juubi as the juubi, as both draw on the same power, and it's not better made. That's like saying properly built materials<poorly built materials. Then again, I'm starting to form an explanation for all this that follows the manga scans and is not logic defying. Perhaps this is due to the Juubi's TBBs being larger, as the Juubi's head is the size of the biju, while Naruto only made his TBBs only the size of Kurama's head. That would explain things.
That Rikudou TBB-Chidori explosion's width is easily calculable by using the valley as a reference. I'll post results tomorrow, should get you the idea.
You don't get to pick and choose. I'm not exclusively relying on them, but shown additional scans to illustrate my point. These are valid in addition to what I've shown. The lake showed the explosion in process (albeit underwater). The village showed the damage done by it, which can only be more massive than the explosion itself due to shock waves. The TBB didn't land that far away, as it was visible by the village. Although it's not close, it's also not incredibly far, as it's only the size of a biju.
I'm not picking and choosing. I've explained to you why one is more valid than the other. You can only see the village being blown up, and that village is nowhere near the size of a Mountain, so you are only seeing an extremely small portion of the explosion in that scan. I have no reason to take that scan and hold it over a scan that shows the full scale of the explosion because for some reason you believe that the clear cut one is flawed.
Even though it's not.
@bold: Underwater. That's all I need to say.
The best argument you can make for that perspective is that the width of the explosion is doubled, and that's at best.
Heck no Kidgamer! Your arguments have been strong right until now. That's an optical illusion from the meteors being so far away, making it look smaller. It's larger than the shinju trunk.
That's perspective. The Meteors are closer to us, the viewer, than the Shinju trunk, so if anything the Shinju trunk would be smaller than it really is since it's in the background, meaning the Shinju Trunk>=Meteors in size.
Take a look at the fragment VS mountains, now take a look at the root. The fragments themselves are the size of the root, or at least the stump, which only appears to only have the width of several mountains. The root isn't the same size as the whole meteor.
I suggest you read above. The fragments are not the size of the trunk. Not a chance.
Well you should, because this isn't the only time when something stronger hasn't been bigger.
SM enhances all ninjutsu, that's a given. That's a fact. Yet, let's look at ninjutsu VS senjutsu back to back.
FRS
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No size difference in FRS, even though the latter is clearly stronger.
TBB
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Are you telling me that, since there explosions are the same size, there's not power difference despite the fact that the manga and databook supports the fact that the latter examples are significantly stronger than the former?
If we were comparing the same person's jutsu to each other, then you'd have a point. But we aren't, so you don't.
Size isn't everything. Let's not forget that even the full-powered ones can't even fully destroy the tree that spawned them (which is significantly weaker than the shinju)
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And yet, Lava FRS bisected the holy tree, something much more powerful and larger (not that I'm arguing it's stronger)
Because not only did the barrier carry the energy out by sucking it and shooting it out of the top, the total portion of the explosion that actually hit said tree is minuscule in comparison to the whole thing, then there's the fact that it's obviously somewhat durable.
Or you could chalk it up to Kishi not caring, unless you think that Hashirama's Gates can withstand the Super Juubidama, but I prefer the explanation above.
Since we're holding so tightly to manga scans and disregarding reasoning in addition to them, then I guess that makes Lava FRS of a non-powered up Naruto>any TBB. Right there, I created a loophole in using this reasoning.
You didn't create a loophole, though Naruto's Lava FRS surpasses any Bijuu Dama in this series bar RSM Naruto, Juubi Jin's, and the combined Bijuu Dama from Naruto and Killer B (maybe) in power.
For Naruto's chakra quality (which is equivalent to a focused juubi jinchuriki) should not have TBBs that are inferior to the juubi as the juubi, as both draw on the same power, and it's not better made. That's like saying properly built materials<poorly built materials. Then again, I'm starting to form an explanation for all this that follows the manga scans and is not logic defying. Perhaps this is due to the Juubi's TBBs being larger, as the Juubi's head is the size of the biju, while Naruto only made his TBBs only the size of Kurama's head. That would explain things.
Yeah, that'd make much more sense, considering we've seen manga panels of each, and Naruto's aren't stronger. Hell, if we use your logic, and say that the Juubi=Naruto in charka quality. If they are equal in chakra quality, that means the only way to differentiate the power of their Bijuu Dama would be to compare their size.
That's perspective. The Meteors are closer to us, the viewer, than the Shinju trunk, so if anything the Shinju trunk would be smaller than it really is since it's in the background, meaning the Shinju Trunk>=Meteors in size.
I suggest you read above. The fragments are not the size of the trunk. Not a chance.
No........ no, that's definately not the case. What are you basing the meteors being closer on? Anyway, that can't be the case.
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As you can see, the meteors were formed away from us. You'd have to say they curved in order for them to be closer. There's also the fact that the mountains around the shinju route are further away, meaning they look smaller.
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I'll say it again, it takes only a couple of mountains to=shinju diameter, and it takes a couple to match the width of a meteor fragment. It's impossible for the Shinju to>=the meteors in size.
If we were comparing the same person's jutsu to each other, then you'd have a point. But we aren't, so you don't.
Not really. I'm leaning the other way now, but I don't agree with your reasoning. It shows that size/=/ power as an absolute.
Because not only did the barrier carry the energy out by sucking it and shooting it out of the top, the total portion of the explosion that actually hit said tree is minuscule in comparison to the whole thing, then there's the fact that it's obviously somewhat durable.
Or you could chalk it up to Kishi not caring, unless you think that Hashirama's Gates can withstand the Super Juubidama, but I prefer the explanation above.[/QUOTE
I actually agree. That's the point. You based a lot of this by applying your thought process to scans. That's what I've been doing.
You didn't create a loophole, though Naruto's Lava FRS surpasses any Bijuu Dama in this series bar RSM Naruto, Juubi Jin's, and the combined Bijuu Dama from Naruto and Killer B (maybe) in power.
Agreed, but that's the point. I was showing something that could not be true, but applying your approach to show that it'd give the wrong view.
Yeah, that'd make much more sense, considering we've seen manga panels of each, and Naruto's aren't stronger. Hell, if we use your logic, and say that the Juubi=Naruto in charka quality. If they are equal in chakra quality, that means the only way to differentiate the power of their Bijuu Dama would be to compare their size.
You seem to misunderstand. "Winning" isn't what this is about. I don't care about the verdict all that much. Naruto's victory hardly depends on this outcome as the Juubi's pretty much a pushover if the character has the right skill set (how else do you explain Hashirama's success?), and this is hardly the most destructive Naruto can be. This just didn't make sense to me due to everyone since Obito becoming a jinchuriki being>Juubi. Ultimately, I'm searching for the rational explanation, and I think I've found it. It's just that "it's bigger" and not touching on the other aspects didn't make sense to me.
Naruto + Sasuke = all the explosion, is above ground, meaning no amount of explosion is absorbed by the ground, so we get to see the full circle of the explosion.
Juubi's explosion is partially inside the ground, while the other half or so above the ground.... So if 2 Juubi Damas were to clash, their clash would ultimatly be stronger than Naruto and Sasuke's clash.
No........ no, that's definately not the case. What are you basing the meteors being closer on? Anyway, that can't be the case.
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As you can see, the meteors were formed away from us. You'd have to say they curved in order for them to be closer. There's also the fact that the mountains around the shinju route are further away, meaning they look smaller.
What in the world are you talking about? The meteors are still closer to us, or at the very least, the same distance from us that the Shinju Trunk is. The whole POV being farther away doesn't change the fact that the Shinju's Trunk is farther in the background in this panel.
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The Mountains around the Shinju Trunk are further away, thus the Shinju, which is in the same location, is also further away from the meteors.
I'll say it again, it takes only a couple of mountains to=shinju diameter, and it takes a couple to match the width of a meteor fragment. It's impossible for the Shinju to>=the meteors in size.
Except it doesn't, because your approach failed the moment it was shown that the reasoning as for why LRS is not >Quad Juubidama is completely unrelated to the point here.
You seem to misunderstand. "Winning" isn't what this is about. I don't care about the verdict all that much. Naruto's victory hardly depends on this outcome as the Juubi's pretty much a pushover if the character has the right skill set (how else do you explain Hashirama's success?), and this is hardly the most destructive Naruto can be. This just didn't make sense to me due to everyone since Obito becoming a jinchuriki being>Juubi. Ultimately, I'm searching for the rational explanation, and I think I've found it. It's just that "it's bigger" and not touching on the other aspects didn't make sense to me.
