[VS] Juubi Jin Madara VS Kaguya

[KidGamer65]

1. So high chakra levels mean stronger character? No, its what you do with that chakra that counts.

When it comes to people like Kaguya, and Juubi Jins, obviously.

-Obito had less Bijuu chakra than Madara, Madara was stronger.

-Kaguya absorbed a shitload of chakra from Infinite Tsukuyomi. She got stronger.

Not to mention he said it was on a different level. That means strength and amount. Sasuke wouldn't be surprised at Kaguya's strength if Madara was stronger. At the end of the day that is all it boils down to.

2. Like how you are referring to when Obito, an incomplete juubi Jin, use Omnyodon. Madara was a complete juubi jin, his Omnyudon were much stronger. They said that the feeling of the sage was radiating more from him than Obito, so of course his chakra is stronger, thus making his omnyoudon stronger.

The term "Complete Jin" is nothing but fanfic you made up to support Madara. Prove that Madara's Gudo Dama are stronger than Obito's with either feats, or statements. JJ Madara being stronger overall doesn't mean that his Gudo Dama are automatically stronger.

3. Sasuke's defense was probably stronger than ONE omnyodon from Juubi Jin Obito, but Madara was the more powerful Juubi Jin, I don't see how Madara cannot block Kaguya's fists with them.

As I showed, Obito made a Gudo Dama shield (not form just one Gudo Dama) and Naruto cracked it with a Bijuu Dama. Madara's weaker PS tanked a Bijuu Dama.

4. His fighting skill is actually quite relevant. That is the reason why Kaguya lost, she had no real combat experience as seen when she was falling for Naruto's shadowclones more than once. Madara would know how to utilize his chakra better than Kaguya did. She had all the jutsu in the world to use, yet she didn't use a single one other than the bone one.

She fell for Naruto's shadow clones because she can't see through shadow clones. That has nothing to dow ith skill. The rest is irrelevant as its pretty much based off of nothing.

-Amount of jutsu used=/=Skill. Who told you that she can use every jutsu anyway? Lol.

5. Not all of them. She teleports in one, as soon as a portal opens, Limbodara can immediately fly to it. Her portals don't allow Instantaneous movement.

Lol, yes, they do. When she enters a portal she instantaneously appears in the portal she's trying to get to. If she enters a portal, and Limbo gets in her way, she either plows right through it, or she appears elsewhere.

6. see number 4.

Countered.

8. She evaded Sasuke with a technique, they were in the gravity world where they were all slower, she changed it ready to dodge which took Sasuke completely off track, that could have played a huge role in why it missed. Also, Madara was caught by it the 1st time because it was completely out of the blue and didn't even know Sasuke could do that, not really fair to hold that against him. Second time, he had Naruto's help, the other time where Sasuke used it to slash him, Madara wasn't even attempting to dodge, he was just after Kamui.

She adjusted the gravitational pull, hence why Obito and Kakashi being able to move.

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Not to mention Sasuke's arm is still shown in motion after she uses her eye technique to change worlds. Yet she still evaded. Even if they were both being hindered by the gravity, they both wouldn't be under it after she switched so she simply evaded her attack.

I'll let you slide with the first one, but no excuses can be made for the second time. Whether or not he had Naruto there with him doesn't change the fact that Madara didn't react. Naruto not being there won't increase Madara's reaction time, and lol? What? If he's after Kamui, then he'd obviously want to dodge since if he gets sealed here, he can't get his eye back. That's why he made his move after getting hit and not before.

Kaguya beats Madara, comfortably.

 

[wael reda]

More reasonable person ? Lol did you even read this ?



K then, is that an argument or are you just listing their techniques ?

Saying madara can beat kaguya high diff is more reasonable than saying sasuke beats madara easily ,I didn't see his/her other post but I was talking about the main post
I amnot just listing their techs but I show you that madara is in another whole level than sasuke
Jiubi domas can easily destroy PS and sasuke

 

[RustledJimmies]

@RustledJimmies, after Madara uses IT, Tengai Shinsei and Chibaku Tensei can be utilized. Naruto would have already used his six Goudama for TBBFRS to destroy the wave of meteors prior, meaning he lacks the firepower to destroy anymore. Sasuke can't make a difference as he is forced to not break formation or else Naruto will get caught in IT.

He doesn't need to duck in the ground with PS and guard it with its wings, he can simply put Naruto

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PS and keep fighting with it, Naruto didn't know that IT was activated, that's why Sasuke had to guard him in the ground before he was caught. btw, are we debating both Naruto and Sasuke or Sasuke alone ?

Madara can also just come from the bottom with Mokuton.

From what I remember, he only showed the ability to merge with Mokuton, not the ground, but even then, how's that helping him ?

 

[Selan]

Kaguya > Hagoromo > Madara. This should be obvious...

 

[Blunt]

He doesn't need to duck in the ground with PS and guard it with its wings, he can simply put Naruto

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PS and keep fighting with it, Naruto didn't know that IT was activated, that's why Sasuke had to guard him in the ground before he was caught.



From what I remember, he only showed the ability to merge with Mokuton, not the ground, but even then, how's that helping him ?

Going by feats, he loses against both together, but defeats them individually. Going by what his full power is, and no CIS, Madara can push them to high difficulty.

I'm saying he can force Sasuke and Naruto out with Mokuton, not actually merge with it. The scenario would play out exactly the same, unless Naruto is fully aware.

But, in the scenario Naruto is aware, Madara can activate PS as well, and in your last post you said we wouldn't know if Madara's PS would be as strong as Sasuke's. He has a higher release, as well as Rikudo's Senjutsu/chakra all in larger quantity than Sasuke. Going by logic, his PS would be superior, this shouldn't be up for discussion as it's based off of what the manga has already established (Kakashi's huge boost in power from portions of the very same chakra and Sasuke instantly being able to whip out the level of Susano'o he did.)

 

[KidGamer65]

^ Even going by only what Madara has shown, he should still be able to beat Sasuke or Naruto individually. Chibaku Tensei keeps him busy and Juubidama blows him up.

 

[Blunt]

^ Even going by only what Madara has shown, he should still be able to beat Sasuke or Naruto individually. Chibaku Tensei keeps him busy and Juubidama blows him up.

What? That's what I said. Lol, but I agree anyway.

but defeats them individually.

 

[RustledJimmies]

I'm saying he can force Sasuke and Naruto out with Mokuton, not actually merge with it. The scenario would play out exactly the same, unless Naruto is fully aware.

Why would the scenario play out the same ? Sasuke didn't even use PS right off the bat, and Naruto couldn't even fly back then.

But, in the scenario Naruto is aware, Madara can activate PS as well, and in your last post you said we wouldn't know if Madara's PS would be as strong as Sasuke's. He has a higher release, as well as Rikudo's Senjutsu/chakra all in larger quantity than Sasuke. Going by logic, his PS would be superior, this shouldn't be up for discussion as it's based off of what the manga has already established (Kakashi's huge boost in power from portions of the very same chakra and Sasuke instantly being able to whip out the level of Susano'o he did.)

I know that Madara's PS should be stronger, but like I said, I'm going strictly by feats, and "by feats" we didn't even see Juubi Jin Madara's PS, so I'm not counting it. However, I do admit that with a superior PS he would be able to win (individually).

^ Even going by only what Madara has shown, he should still be able to beat Sasuke or Naruto individually. Chibaku Tensei keeps him busy and Juubidama blows him up.

Assuming of course, he can form Chibaku Tensei and throw it at them, and charge Juubi Dama at the same time, while Sasuke/Naruto sits there waiting for him to do both.

 

[KidGamer65]

What? That's what I said. Lol

I was only pointing out another way he'd beat them even if we exclude things he hasn't shown us. I know that you think he beats both.

 

[Blunt]

Why would the scenario play out the same ? Sasuke didn't even use PS right off the bat, and Naruto couldn't even fly back then.

I'm not talking about Naruto and Sasuke from the fight with Kaguya. Though if I was, he still wins by feats (individually). He defeats current Sasuke and current Naruto (Post Kaguya sealing) individually.

I said individually twice to avoid any confusion.

I was only pointing out another way he'd beat them even if we exclude things he hasn't shown us. I know that you think he beats both.

Oh, I got you.

 

[RustledJimmies]

I'm not talking about Naruto and Sasuke from the fight with Kaguya. Though if I was, he still wins by feats (individually). He defeats current Sasuke and current Naruto (Post Kaguya sealing) individually.

I said individually twice to avoid any confusion.

Then why did you mention Naruto ? I never said Naruto beats Madara by himself (only because he lacks a counter to IT tho). Also, this post made it seem as if you were talking about both Naruto and Sasuke at the same time.

@RustledJimmies, after Madara uses IT, Tengai Shinsei and Chibaku Tensei can be utilized. Naruto would have already used his six Goudama for TBBFRS to destroy the wave of meteors prior, meaning he lacks the firepower to destroy anymore. Sasuke can't make a difference as he is forced to not break formation or else Naruto will get caught in IT.

 

[KidGamer65]

Assuming of course, he can form Chibaku Tensei and throw it at them, and charge Juubi Dama at the same time, while Sasuke/Naruto sits there waiting for him to do both.

He doesn't need to charge Juubidama and form Chibaku Tensei at the same time.

Step 1: Form Chibaku Tensei like he did in canon.

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Step 2: Form Juubidama as Sasuke/Naruto are dealing with the CT orbs.

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Madara doesn't need to do anything while the rocks are falling on them, and it lasts long enough for him to use Bijuu Dama.

 

[Haizaki]

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Spoiler

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Thread over. Nothing more to discuss here.

 

[RustledJimmies]

He doesn't need to charge Juubidama and form Chibaku Tensei at the same time.

Step 1: Form Chibaku Tensei like he did in canon.

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Step 2: Form Juubidama as Sasuke/Naruto are dealing with the CT orbs.

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Madara doesn't need to do anything while the rocks are falling on them, and it lasts long enough for him to use Bijuu Dama.

What stops Sasuke from teleporting to the tree and cutting it down and only then go and deal with the meteors ?

 

[Blunt]

Then why did you mention Naruto ? I never said Naruto beats Madara by himself (only because he lacks a counter to IT tho). Also, this post made it seem as if you were talking about both Naruto and Sasuke at the same time.

I was basically talking about if the scenario played out the same, but this time Madara was completely bloodlusted. I was speaking of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time, prior to you pointing out Sasuke's Susano'o cannot be penetrated by the light and Naruto not being aware. If Naruto was aware, Madara most likely would have needed his full power (PS) to compete. Considering he wouldn't be able to rain down meteors on them like I stated since they would have been mobile and have been capable of defending themselves.

 

[KidGamer65]

What stops Sasuke from teleporting to the tree and cutting it down and only then go and deal with the meteors ? As CT needs to be formed and then thrown at them.

The fact that Madara wouldn't use Juubidama unless Sasuke is already dealing with the rocks. If Sasuke waits for him to call the tree, then the rocks crush him and his Susanoo since Madara has no need to call the tree until Sasuke actually makes a move, and he'll have to deal with the rocks first.

 

[RustledJimmies]

The fact that Madara wouldn't use Juubidama unless Sasuke is already dealing with the rocks. If Sasuke waits for him to call the tree, then the rocks crush him and his Susanoo since Madara has no need to call the tree until Sasuke actually makes a move, and he'll have to deal with the rocks first.

Let me make it more simple :
>Sasuke goes and starts destroying the rocks
>Madara summons the tree
>Sasuke sees the tree
>teleports to the tree
>cuts it down
>goes back to deal with the meteors.

 

[KidGamer65]

Let me make it more simple :
>Sasuke goes and starts destroying the rocks
>Madara summons the tree
>Sasuke sees the tree
>teleports to the tree
>cuts it down
>goes back to deal with the meteors.

If Madara is on the ground, and Sasuke is in the air dealing with the rocks, then he won't be able to teleport since its out of his range.

But then again he can apparently extend his range by swapping, so I'll agree.

 

[RustledJimmies]

If Madara is on the ground, and Sasuke is in the air dealing with the rocks, then he won't be able to teleport since its out of his range.

But then again he can apparently extend his range by swapping, so I'll agree.

Exactly what I was about to say.

 

[Haizaki]

Lol RJ casually forgot his teleportation has a range.