Jutsus that requires other techniques to be known.

House

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After a long discussion I've decided to make an open question, related to jutsu that needs not only one, but two or multiple techniques in order to perform it. The first example I'd like to bring up is this:

(Suiton: Gufuu Suika) - Water Style: Typhoon Water Vortex
Rank: A
Type: Attack/Defence
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description:The user will create a ‘Wind Style: Rasengan’ in one hand, and ‘Water Style: Destruction Torrent’ in the other. By combining them, he will create a tornado of water that can be used to attack or defend. This jutsu can also be used to drown out wind and fire combos
Note: No water source required.

As far as I know, you'll be able to perform this water technique without knowing how to perform the ninjutsu A-ranked rasengan, or am I wrong? I read people saying that you need to learn rasengan in order to perform this, others said no.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see another well discussed example onto the table:

(Katon: Fuuton Ken Katon Bakufuu no Jutsu) Fire Release: Wind and Fire Blast Technique
Rank: S
Type: Offense
Range: Long
Chakra cost: 40
Damage points: 80
Description: The user after combining Fire Release: Intense pain and Wind Release: Pressure Damage at the same time. This creates a blast that is so intense that a standard water technique (ex : Water Release: Water Encampment Wall) can only at most soften of the impact. It was successsfully stopped by Yamato and Naruto's Typhoon water vortex.

Do you really need to have Pressure Damage learned, in order to perform this fire technique? People argue that you need to have wind and fire mastered, but some argue that you don't need to have Pressuge Damage down.

There are more jutsus that needs a clarification, of whether or not you'd need to have the "other" technique mensioned in the description down, but these are the most discussed jutsus of all.

What are your thoughts?
 

KeotsuEclipse

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After a long discussion I've decided to make an open question, related to jutsu that needs not only one, but two or multiple techniques in order to perform it. The first example I'd like to bring up is this:

(Suiton: Gufuu Suika) - Water Style: Typhoon Water Vortex
Rank: A
Type: Attack/Defence
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description:The user will create a ‘Wind Style: Rasengan’ in one hand, and ‘Water Style: Destruction Torrent’ in the other. By combining them, he will create a tornado of water that can be used to attack or defend. This jutsu can also be used to drown out wind and fire combos
Note: No water source required.

As far as I know, you'll be able to perform this water technique without knowing how to perform the ninjutsu A-ranked rasengan, or am I wrong? I read people saying that you need to learn rasengan in order to perform this, others said no.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see another well discussed example onto the table:

(Katon: Fuuton Ken Katon Bakufuu no Jutsu) Fire Release: Wind and Fire Blast Technique
Rank: S
Type: Offense
Range: Long
Chakra cost: 40
Damage points: 80
Description: The user after combining Fire Release: Intense pain and Wind Release: Pressure Damage at the same time. This creates a blast that is so intense that a standard water technique (ex : Water Release: Water Encampment Wall) can only at most soften of the impact. It was successsfully stopped by Yamato and Naruto's Typhoon water vortex.

Do you really need to have Pressure Damage learned, in order to perform this fire technique? People argue that you need to have wind and fire mastered, but some argue that you don't need to have Pressuge Damage down.

There are more jutsus that needs a clarification, of whether or not you'd need to have the "other" technique mensioned in the description down, but these are the most discussed jutsus of all.

What are your thoughts?
The way I was taught, when I came across these jutsu, was that you needed to have both; for example, at the time I was taught Kirin by Akiza, I didn't know any fire jutsu yet, and thus couldn't "force" the conditions needed for it - therefore, after learning fire, we came back to it.

So, in order to use it, you must know both component jutsu.

...And this may have been better suited for the Q&S section, since it's RP related. o.o
 

Professor Sarutobi

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not sure about the 2nd one as it is a fire and wind technique combined i don't see why it has to specifically be pressure damage but just wind in general.

But the first one you should definatly be trained in rasengan and wind rasengan before learning typhoon water vortex, half the technique is a rasengan that has wind chakra in it so you can't skip the base version of half the move and only learn the advanced version, let alone learn to combine it with another jutsu before knowing rasengan. but if you train in water, wind or fire you'll have to learn it during that so its not like you need ninjutsu training before 3 of the elements (unless your senpai/sensei refuses or can't teach it to you for some reason?) i had wind training with Toku and he taught me basic rasengan first then wind rasengan and rasenshuriken.
 

+BLOODsilent+

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well when i was trained i had to learn the rasangan to do the water vortex i think it should be taught in order to used these jutsus. there powerful and i think its just cheating yourself if you dont learn the technique to do the jutsus
 

Trinky

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I'm new to this, but looking at the jutsu description...I'd say you need to know both. The Rasengan and the Destruction Torrent are the main ingredients, and if an ingredient is missing, well. It never turns out the same xD

If you have wind mastered, surely you're able to execute those techniques anyway? If not, please enlighten me, because I'm a newbie after all. :p
 

Toku

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After a long discussion I've decided to make an open question, related to jutsu that needs not only one, but two or multiple techniques in order to perform it. The first example I'd like to bring up is this:

(Suiton: Gufuu Suika) - Water Style: Typhoon Water Vortex
Rank: A
Type: Attack/Defence
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description:The user will create a ‘Wind Style: Rasengan’ in one hand, and ‘Water Style: Destruction Torrent’ in the other. By combining them, he will create a tornado of water that can be used to attack or defend. This jutsu can also be used to drown out wind and fire combos
Note: No water source required.

As far as I know, you'll be able to perform this water technique without knowing how to perform the ninjutsu A-ranked rasengan, or am I wrong? I read people saying that you need to learn rasengan in order to perform this, others said no.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see another well discussed example onto the table:

(Katon: Fuuton Ken Katon Bakufuu no Jutsu) Fire Release: Wind and Fire Blast Technique
Rank: S
Type: Offense
Range: Long
Chakra cost: 40
Damage points: 80
Description: The user after combining Fire Release: Intense pain and Wind Release: Pressure Damage at the same time. This creates a blast that is so intense that a standard water technique (ex : Water Release: Water Encampment Wall) can only at most soften of the impact. It was successsfully stopped by Yamato and Naruto's Typhoon water vortex.

Do you really need to have Pressure Damage learned, in order to perform this fire technique? People argue that you need to have wind and fire mastered, but some argue that you don't need to have Pressuge Damage down.

There are more jutsus that needs a clarification, of whether or not you'd need to have the "other" technique mensioned in the description down, but these are the most discussed jutsus of all.

What are your thoughts?
You must meet all the requirements in the description, therefore you would need rasengan to learn Wind style: rasengan and combine it w/ water style: Destruction Torrent to successfully perform water style: typhoon water vortex...the same goes for the wind fire blast technique, both intense pain and pressure damage must be mastered first...

not sure about the 2nd one as it is a fire and wind technique combined i don't see why it has to specifically be pressure damage but just wind in general.

But the first one you should definatly be trained in rasengan and wind rasengan before learning typhoon water vortex, half the technique is a rasengan that has wind chakra in it so you can't skip the base version of half the move and only learn the advanced version, let alone learn to combine it with another jutsu before knowing rasengan. but if you train in water, wind or fire you'll have to learn it during that so its not like you need ninjutsu training before 3 of the elements (unless your senpai/sensei refuses or can't teach it to you for some reason?) i had wind training with Toku and he taught me basic rasengan first then wind rasengan and rasenshuriken.
It has to be pressure damage because thats the required wind manipulation and strength in order to combine w/ intense pain to create this fire wind blast...
 

Ryūjin

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After a long discussion I've decided to make an open question, related to jutsu that needs not only one, but two or multiple techniques in order to perform it. The first example I'd like to bring up is this:

(Suiton: Gufuu Suika) - Water Style: Typhoon Water Vortex
Rank: A
Type: Attack/Defence
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description:The user will create a ‘Wind Style: Rasengan’ in one hand, and ‘Water Style: Destruction Torrent’ in the other. By combining them, he will create a tornado of water that can be used to attack or defend. This jutsu can also be used to drown out wind and fire combos
Note: No water source required.

As far as I know, you'll be able to perform this water technique without knowing how to perform the ninjutsu A-ranked rasengan, or am I wrong? I read people saying that you need to learn rasengan in order to perform this, others said no.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see another well discussed example onto the table:

(Katon: Fuuton Ken Katon Bakufuu no Jutsu) Fire Release: Wind and Fire Blast Technique
Rank: S
Type: Offense
Range: Long
Chakra cost: 40
Damage points: 80
Description: The user after combining Fire Release: Intense pain and Wind Release: Pressure Damage at the same time. This creates a blast that is so intense that a standard water technique (ex : Water Release: Water Encampment Wall) can only at most soften of the impact. It was successsfully stopped by Yamato and Naruto's Typhoon water vortex.

Do you really need to have Pressure Damage learned, in order to perform this fire technique? People argue that you need to have wind and fire mastered, but some argue that you don't need to have Pressuge Damage down.

There are more jutsus that needs a clarification, of whether or not you'd need to have the "other" technique mensioned in the description down, but these are the most discussed jutsus of all.

What are your thoughts?
In order to use any kind of technique you need to have learned it in a training session with a sensei/sempai, same goes for the Wind and Fire blast technique and the Typhoon Water Vortex technique, each one of those needs two separate jutsus to be done simultaneously at the same time in order to be performed successfully, ofcourse you can't concentrate two different elemental chakra at the same time unless you have Yin/Yang training that allows you to do so, the only exceptions are those two techniques, in the typhoon water vortex you make the destruction torrent and the wind style rasengan in order to merge them together creating a spiraling vortex of wind and water, and the other is mixing both the pressure damage technique with intense pain at the same time creating a large blast of fire and wind, how can you perform a technique that requires two seperate jutsus without even learning one of them that doesn't make any sense, you need to have learned BOTH techniques that are used to combine together, if you haven't learned one of them you can't use the technique, simple as that.
 

House

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Let me bring up another jutsu:

(Raiton: Horyu Raika no Jutsu) – Lightning Release: Discharge Lightning Calamity Technique
Rank: B
Type: Offensive
Range: Mid
Chakra cost: 20
Damage points: 40
Description: The user will create a field of water under the opponent before shocking them with a lightning attack.

It says that it will create a "field of water". Don't you need some water training in order to make that puddle appear under the enemy?
 

Ryūjin

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Let me bring up another jutsu:

(Raiton: Horyu Raika no Jutsu) – Lightning Release: Discharge Lightning Calamity Technique
Rank: B
Type: Offensive
Range: Mid
Chakra cost: 20
Damage points: 40
Description: The user will create a field of water under the opponent before shocking them with a lightning attack.

It says that it will create a "field of water". Don't you need some water training in order to make that puddle appear under the enemy?
This is a broken jutsu just like the other two techniques you brought up, it's used by two users in conjunction with each other, one user creates a puddle of water while the other creates a lightning surge in the water puddle to electrocute the target and both are used at the same time just like the fire and wind blast technique, so i guess it follows the same standards but because the "Field of water" isn't descriptive enough as it's not an independent water technique, i think you need at least the ability to manipulate and create water using your chakra, meaning the first thing that you do while training in water, not involving learning any techniques for it. of course this is debatable so you need to ask a RP mod for that just to be on the safe side.

 

House

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This is a broken jutsu just like the other two techniques you brought up, it's used by two users in conjunction with each other, one user creates a puddle of water while the other creates a lightning surge in the water puddle to electrocute the target and both are used at the same time just like the fire and wind blast technique, so i guess it follows the same standards but because the "Field of water" isn't descriptive enough as it's not an independent water technique, i think you need at least the ability to manipulate and create water using your chakra, meaning the first thing that you do while training in water, not involving learning any techniques for it. of course this is debatable so you need to ask a RP mod for that just to be on the safe side.

Thank You for your answer, and there are other techniques like this Calamity, where it mensions other elements within it.

As I was reading your comment, I came up with something. Of course, you need Earth and Fire, in order to perform Lava techniques. You need Water and Wind in order to perform Ice techniques. What about Mud? don't you need Water in order to make earth into a mudish substance? So by all means, don't you have to have a little bit of knowledge within water, if you try to perform an A-ranked Swamp of the Underworld? It is made of mud right? Water makes able to be mudish. So how's that possible if you don't need any knowledge of the "other" element within those techniques if it's not being mensioned, but you need to have let's say Pressure Damage learned, because it's being mensioned in the technique?
 
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