[Discussion] Just curious as to what people think.

[Uzumaki Macho]

l0l Zoro is on high VA tier. There's nothing so far that suggests that he's above Smoker either & he's in the same tier as Sanji as well.

How about feats? I cant believe some people actually believe Smoker can beat Zoro.

 

[My Username]

l0l Zoro is on high VA tier. There's nothing so far that suggests that he's above Smoker either & he's in the same tier as Sanji as well.

From where does this shit come from? Do i need to slap a b1tch? How does Smoker defeat Zoro?

 

[TheHokage]

How about feats? I cant believe some people actually believe Smoker can beat Zoro.

Well there's really no feats Zoro has that puts him above Smoker...since Zoro hasn't battled someone seriously that was the same level of Smoker's opponents.

From where does this shit come from? Do i need to slap a b1tch? How does Smoker defeat Zoro?

For one Smoker is Luffy's rival makes no sense for Smoker to be weaker than the second strongest in the crew when Smoker is gunning for the strongest and the two will fight again Oda has foreshadowed this with Luffy himself showing interest in wanting to fight Smoker at full power. Two Feat wise Smoker has shown more as his opponents have been significantly stronger.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Well there's really no feats Zoro has that puts him above Smoker...since Zoro hasn't battled someone seriously that was the same level of Smoker's opponents.



For one Smoker is Luffy's rival makes no sense for Smoker to be weaker than the second strongest in the crew when Smoker is gunning for the strongest. Two Feat wise Smoker has shown more as his opponents have been stronger.

So Smokers punches that didn't even do anything to Vergo are more impressive than 1080 pound cannon? And so now hype>feats?

 

[TheHokage]

So Smokers punches that didn't even do anything to Vergo are more impressive than 1080 pound cannon? And so now hype>feats?

When did they do nothing? You're completely underrating Smoker feats to make him look weaker stop being deluded. Smoker's punches made Vergo bleed and knocked him off of his feet. Yes Zoro's technique is impressive but just because his technique is powerful doesn't mean he's stronger than someone. For instance Whitebeard had the strongest Devil Fruit with the destructive power to potentially destroy multiple islands yet he was still even or slightly weaker than Roger who to our knowledge could only use Haki and a sword.

Hype at times can help when it comes to basing someone's power level the majority of the strongest characters are 'hype' only. Kaidou, Big Mam, Dragon, Gorosei etc... so using that as your argument is pretty weak. However the fact Smoker and Luffy have an ongoing rivalry in the series where the two fight the moment they meet up should indicate to you they are not miles apart in strength and as I view Zoro as weaker than Luffy I put Smoker in the gap where he is above Zoro and just below Luffy.

You must be registered for see images

Absolutely no damage at all that was just a normal Haki punch that sent him flying.


I realize all I'm going to get in reply is 'Smoker sucks and is weak he lost' or 'Zoro hasn't gone all out' or even 'Zoro knows haki he can win' however thought I'd just try to add some actual facts to this debate rather than just baseless opinions.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

When did they do nothing? You're completely underrating Smoker feats to make him look weaker stop being deluded. Smoker's punches made Vergo bleed and knocked him off of his feet. Yes Zoro's technique is impressive but just because his technique is powerful doesn't mean he's stronger than someone. For instance Whitebeard had the strongest Devil Fruit with the destructive power to potentially destroy multiple islands yet he was still even or slightly weaker than Roger who to our knowledge could only use Haki and a sword.

Hype at times can help when it comes to basing someone's power level the majority of the strongest characters are 'hype' only. Kaidou, Big Mam, Dragon, Gorosei etc... so using that as your argument is pretty weak. However the fact Smoker and Luffy have an ongoing rivalry in the series where the two fight the moment they meet up should indicate to you they are not miles apart in strength and as I view Zoro as weaker than Luffy I put Smoker in the gap where he is above Zoro and just below Luffy.

You must be registered for see images

Absolutely no damage at all that was just a normal Haki punch that sent him flying.


I realize all I'm going to get in reply is 'Smoker sucks and is weak he lost' or 'Zoro hasn't gone all out' or even 'Zoro knows haki he can win' however thought I'd just try to add some actual facts to this debate rather than just baseless opinions.

If he was really Luffy's Garp then why did he get low-mid diffed by Luffy's WB? Smoker being Luffy's Garp is not a valid reason. Fyi Zoro hasn't gone all out since he hasn't used Asura.

 

[Fireplay]

Why is everyone underrestimating Smoker?

I guarantee you EoS Smoker will be shitting on your favs U_U

Coby will be a monster aswell.

If he was really Luffy's Garp then why did he get low-mid diffed by Luffy's WB? Smoker being Luffy's Garp is not a valid reason. Fyi Zoro hasn't gone all out since he hasn't used Asura.

Ohh so you think that back when Garp was young he was shitting on everyone who stood up against him?

I can guarantee you that even Roger and Whitebeard have gotten shitted on when they were younger.

Garp, WB and Roger didn't become PK level by being invincible from day one. Shanks himself said that tears, pain and defeat are what makes a man stronger.

Smoker will surpass Garp, Luffy will surpass Roger and Law will surpass WB.

Also, Law didn't low-diff Smoker, Law was having trouble with him. Luffy himself told Smoker that he wants to fight him with his full power.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Why is everyone underrestimating Smoker?

I guarantee you EoS Smoker and Coby will be shitting on your favs U_U

My fav is WB.

 

[TheHokage]

If he was really Luffy's Garp then why did he get low-mid diffed by Luffy's WB? Smoker being Luffy's Garp is not a valid reason. Fyi Zoro hasn't gone all out since he hasn't used Asura.

Getting blind sided and hit by a 1 shot attack isn't really a low diff fight. In the exact same situation Luffy, Zoro, Sanji anyone else around that strength margin would end up in the same situation. You judge characters strengths purely on the outcome of a fight and ignore everything else. Smoker was physically stronger than Law in the fight he was fast enough to keep up with Law in Law's room. A fight between Smoker and Luffy wouldn't end up the same way as Smoker and Law because for one Luffy doesn't have the same powers as Law and two Law's more of a strategist when fighting hence the reason he blindsided Smoker to give himself an opening while in a fight against Luffy it would just be Smoker and Luffy duking it out and Smoker has already shown post timeskip (in Tashigi's body) he is more than fast enough to hit Luffy with his Jitte.

Bold: I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic to my comment but either way this was the response I expected.

Why is everyone underrestimating Smoker?

I guarantee you EoS Smoker and Coby will be shitting on your favs

I agree with this. People are underestimating him because they don't like the idea that Zoro is weaker than him so they try to make him seem weaker than he is.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Getting blind sided and hit by a 1 shot attack isn't really a low diff fight. In the exact same situation Luffy, Zoro, Sanji anyone else around that strength margin would end up in the same situation. You judge characters strengths purely on the outcome of a fight and ignore everything else. Smoker was physically stronger than Law in the fight he was fast enough to keep up with Law in Law's room. A fight between Smoker and Luffy wouldn't end up the same way as Smoker and Law because for one Luffy doesn't have the same powers as Law and two Law's more of a strategist when fighting hence the reason he blindsided Smoker to give himself an opening while in a fight against Luffy it would just be Smoker and Luffy duking it out and Smoker has already shown post timeskip (in Tashigi's body) he is more than fast enough to hit Luffy with his Jitte.

Bold: I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic to my comment but either way this was the response I expected.



I agree with this. People are underestimating him because they don't like the idea that Zoro is weaker than him so they try to make him seem weaker than he is.

Dude Smoker has shown nothing that puts him over Zoro, you're making Zoro look weaker than he is. Of course Zoro hasn't gone out since he hasn't used Asura, do you think he just somehow forgot how to use it during the timeskip?

 

[TheHokage]

[/B]
Dude Smoker has shown nothing that puts him over Zoro, you're making Zoro look weaker than he is. Of course Zoro hasn't gone out since he hasn't used Asura, do you think he just somehow forgot how to use it during the timeskip?

Smoker has battled against stronger opponents than Zoro that's all the feats I need. I'm not making Zoro seem weaker than he is I have a neutral opinion of Zoro he's the second strongest in the strawhat crew and could push Luffy to a high diff fight, you're the one that's making him seem stronger than he is. Yes Zoro hasn't gone all out but I doubt we've seen all Smoker has to offer as well as he wasn't fighting to his full potential against Vergo either. He was using a completely different strategy in the fight in order to distract Vergo not win.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Smoker has battled against stronger opponents than Zoro that's all the feats I need. I'm not making Zoro seem weaker than he is I have a neutral opinion of Zoro he's the second strongest in the strawhat crew and could push Luffy to a high diff fight, you're the one that's making him seem stronger than he is. Yes Zoro hasn't gone all out but I doubt we've seen all Smoker has to offer as well as he wasn't fighting to his full potential against Vergo either. He was using a completely different strategy in the fight in order to distract Vergo not win.

Yes he was going all out against Vergo, he would be stupid if he didn't. Going by the logic in your first sentence Zoro>>>Smoker since he fought Mihawk.

 

[TheHokage]

Yes he was going all out against Vergo, he would be stupid if he didn't. Going by the logic in your first sentence Zoro>>>Smoker since he fought Mihawk.

No it wouldn't it was stated by Vergo himself the strategy Smoker was using was different than one's Smoker usually uses such as spreading his smoke out blinding Vergo and taking hits to get Law's heart back if Smoker was going all out to win he wouldn't need to do those things so ultimately when Smoker was going for Law's heart he wasn't fighting at his full potential.

You must be registered for see images

Read the page don't just look at the pretty pictures

No...that logic doesn't work since Mihawk defeated Zoro with a little blade he carries...Zoro showed no feats in his fight with Mihawk it was an utter defeat.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

No it wouldn't it was stated by Vergo himself the strategy Smoker was using was different than one's Smoker usually uses such as spreading his smoke out blinding Vergo and taking hits to get Law's heart back if Smoker was going all out to win he wouldn't need to do those things so ultimately when Smoker was going for Law's heart he wasn't fighting at his full potential.

No...that logic doesn't work since Mihawk defeated Zoro with a little blade he carries...Zoro showed no feats in his fight with Mihawk it was an utter defeat.

Smoker didn't even land a hit on Law. Smoker had to use that strategy because he knew he couldn't beat Vergo, how is your argument supposed to help Smoker?

 

[TheHokage]

Smoker didn't even land a hit on Law. Smoker had to use that strategy because he knew he couldn't beat Vergo, how is your argument supposed to help Smoker?

The fight between Law and Smoker was a 1 hit match whoever hit first won so it doesn't really matter if Smoker had hit Law with his jitte it was game over if Law hits Smoker with his power once it's game over.

Also Smoker was able to grab Law without Law's ability to teleport himself he would have lost.

You must be registered for see images

Smoker used strategy because he wanted to pay a debt back he had with Law for freeing him again this is implied in the manga if you actually take time to read the pages.

You must be registered for see images

This page shows 2 important things:
1) Smoker's true objective (look at the panel with Vergo)
2) Smoker was in debt to Law and wanted to pay the debt back (Look at the panel where Law specifically states 'You hate being in debt to a pirate that much' or even Smoker's own comment 'Now we're even'.

Choose to ignore these statements all you like however what I'm providing is manga pages and facts while all you're providing is baseless opinions and bias ones at that.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The fight between Law and Smoker was a 1 hit match whoever hit first won so it doesn't really matter if Smoker had hit Law with his jitte it was game over if Law hits Smoker with his power once it's game over.

Also Smoker was able to grab Law without Law's ability to teleport himself he would have lost.

You must be registered for see images

Smoker used strategy because he wanted to pay a debt back he had with Law for freeing him again this is implied in the manga if you actually take time to read the pages.

You must be registered for see images

This page shows 2 important things:
1) Smoker's true objective (look at the panel with Vergo)
2) Smoker was in debt to Law and wanted to pay the debt back (Look at the panel where Law specifically states 'You hate being in debt to a pirate that much' or even Smoker's own comment 'Now we're even'.

Choose to ignore these statements all you like however what I'm providing is manga pages and facts while all you're providing is baseless opinions and bias ones at that.

You think Smoker>Vergo? He was repaying Law by giving him his heart back.

 

[TheHokage]

You think Smoker>Vergo? He was repaying Law by giving him his heart back.

Never said I think Smoker>Vergo. I think had Smoker battled Vergo with the intention of winning he would have put up a much more difficult fight for Vergo which is where the whole Smoker in this fight not fighting at his full potential reasoning is from. Vergo was stronger than Smoker ultimately there's no doubt about he was better in his overall physical fighting abilities however having said that I don't think Vergo was much stronger than Smoker.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Never said I think Smoker>Vergo. I think had Smoker battled Vergo with the intention of winning he would have put up a much more difficult fight for Vergo which is where the whole Smoker in this fight not fighting at his full potential reasoning is from. Vergo was stronger than Smoker ultimately there's no doubt about he was better in his overall physical fighting abilities however having said that I don't think Vergo was much stronger than Smoker.

Talk about a baseless statement.

 

[TheHokage]

Talk about a baseless statement.

Not really considering not only have I provided pages where it's specifically stated Smoker wasn't using his usual tactics and also showing his goal in the fight not being to win but to gets Law's heart back automatically implied Smoker was handicapped in the fight and couldn't use his full strength due to the tactics he had to use in order to get Law's heart back.

The finishing attack Vergo used on Smoker was also part of Smoker's strategy he charged in so he could get Law his heart back without noticing he took the hit on purpose.

If you want to see a baseless statement go read all of your comments you've got nothing to back up your claims other than your opinion.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Not really considering not only have I provided pages where it's specifically stated Smoker wasn't using his usual tactics and also showing his goal in the fight not being to win but to gets Law's heart back automatically implied Smoker was handicapped in the fight and couldn't use his full strength due to the tactics he had to use in order to get Law's heart back.

The finishing attack Vergo used on Smoker was also part of Smoker's strategy he charged in so he could get Law his heart back without noticing he took the hit on purpose.

If you want to see a baseless statement go read all of your comments you've got nothing to back up your claims other than your opinion.

He was fighting differently since he was trying to give Law his heart back. He knew he couldn't beat Vergo and Law was his only hope. Vergo didn't even have to use full body CoA.