Link to move in question:
You must be registered for see links
A detailed explanation of the problem:
1) Joker says that the summon would not immediately reverse summon us back to the land of moon upon it getting hit directly with S rank Wax. He says that it would writhe and squirm for a few seconds and then reverse summon us back. I find this to be him simply twisting and using the timeframe to his advantage tbh. We have seen in the anime summons immediately being dispersed upon being it, and we have seen them writhe before dispersing, but because I described in my move that it would immediately go away, I believe that the description should swing my way. If it didn't that would mean that Joker just changed my move's description, god modding. He coincidentally, just in the nick of time, gave himself the time needed to erupt a barrier before he's instantly reverse summoned and therefore hit with my keigoku? Just by saying that it would writhe in pain first, while I mentioned nothing of the sort and it's commonly accepted in the rp that this doesn't happen? Something seems rather odd about that don't you think?
No it would not. We have seen summons take damage and not immediately be reverse summoned back. For example, Pein launched a massive Shinra Tensei on three Toads, including Gamabunta who said that the attack broke every single bone in his body, and all three frogs remained on the field. Amaterasu was set to Nagato's dog, which subdued it rather than simply dispersing it. Naruto threw Pein's Rhino into the air and it was beaten up by one of the Toads via close combat jutsu, and it did not disperse immediately. As the toad wouldn't instantly die from being struck by the wax, and would instead react with pain as the process of dying began(the toad would be dying, for however short a window of time, not instantly dead due to the fact that it was an internal blow to a part of its stomach, not an attack that blew a hole through it or exploded the toad), and be enough time to put up a Preta Barrier before the jutsu ends with the toad's death, sending us back to the normal world.
It doesn't matter that Broly described in his move that we are immediately sent back because that description is inaccurate. If I were to say my Fireball immediately and instantly reaches you from my person, or that my water dragon instantly slams into you upon creation, does that mean that it actually happens, simply because I said so? No, it means I gave an inadequate and inaccurate description of the timeline of events, as Broly did when he said that we immediately transport back.
The decision to throw up a barrier also was not determined by the summoning's writhing and squirming. It was not thrown up as a reaction from Nagato and Hana because they were going to be reverse summoned, it was thrown up as a response to the incoming Ninjutsu attacks coming at them. To imply that Nagato and Hana would wait until the toad dies and the jutsu ends would also be to say that they simply stand there and watch two different attacks fly at them and then try to counter only when it's near. Logically, upon seeing the wax, Hana and Nagato would immediately move to defend themselves, which was throwing up the barrier. As the transport back depends on the toad dying, which would not happen instantly, there is a window of time where Nagato and Hana are standing in the toad's stomach with projectiles racing at them; it is during this window of time that the barrier is created.
Broly's entire argument here revolves around "My description should be valid and there's shouldn't be because I want mine to be and there's not to be."
Also,
You must be registered for see links
, Nanazai's bird was able to act as a partial shield to the explosion that struck him. If animals just instantly disappear as soon as they are injured, then Nanazai would have taken the full brunt force of the explosion, as the bird would not have lasted enough to absorb the impact as it did. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that summoning animals in the RP don't simply instantly vanish, as was the case with Nanazai vs Vex.
2) As Scorps ruled
You must be registered for see links
Joker has made a big mistake in the Preta path's usage. He states that Nagato uses the path the entire turn to absorb all of my moves, but as you see that is not the correct usage of the move. The keigoku rain would happen first in the timeframe obviously, because it's been falling for an entire turn already, and then the Wax and Gallium would hit them both. OR you could say that he even blocks the Rain as well as the Wax and Gallium for that time frame, but immediately after the Keigoku would hit him and deliver severe mental damage, more than enough to (as I said) stop them from being able to counter an immediate thread (this being the bird that has been diving towards the ground all this time. In summation, they can counter the keigoku (which would hit first) and get hit by the wax and Hot Ice, they can counter the hot ice, wax and keigoku initially (if you wish to twist the time frame as they have) and get hit by the keigoku and bird immediately after, but they can't counter everything with just the one usage. I'm in favor of them getting hit with wax and gallium because of the keigoku obviously hitting them first and thus they'd need another couter for the combination. Especially since the Hot Ice would be coming from further away and thus logically hitting them at different times.
Broly's own wording hurts him here. He says that the Gallium from his first move would be one of the things that hits us when we are reverse summoned back from the Land of Moon. However, the timeframe for that move logically should have ended, as the jutsu that Broly uses says this:
Gariumu:Sapuraizu watashi wa kyūba kara kita nda! Daremoga hitotsu no nō o motte i )Gallium Release: Surprise I'm From Cuba! Everyone has One Brain
Type: Offensive/Defensive/Supplementary
Rank: S
Range: Short-Long
Chakra: 40 (-20 per turn to sustain)
Damage: 80
Description: The advanced form of "Gallium Release: Open Your Eyes and Look North", this jutsu allows the user to create a number of Gallium streams, walls, weapons, cubes, etc or even to manipulate prexisting Gallium into those forms. When this jutsu is used, the user can expel Gallium from any point of his body with only a handseal needed, or he can create Gallium from the ground with one handseal. The user also can create animate objects with this technique, but has to use hand motions in order to move them and sustain them, preventing him from using other techniques at the same time.
Once this technique is over, the gallium made cools rapidly and hardens slightly
-Useable 3 times per battle
-1 turn cooldown between each use
In order for the Gallium to still be a threat, as his paragraph here suggest(he lists it in the bolded as something we have coming at us), then it's usage would still be continuing. Unlike his Keigoku rain, the Gallium technique does not say it lasts for more than one turn and is therefore a one-shot technique: the turn/timeframe its used is the span of time in which the Gallium us "active," preceding the period where the technique "is over." As Broly lists the Gallium as one of the things still coming at us, he indicates that, somehow the timeframe that the Gallium lasts is still happening as we come back from the Toad's stomach, despite the turn in between them. The Gallium can only be a threat if the technique is still active, as it rapidly cools down and hardens once the usage is over, making it harmless and not one of the jutsu threatening the lives of Nagato and Hana. As Broly still considers it a threat, then its timeframe must be continuing. As the ice and wax are already fired, and the Keigoku rain follows a continuous timeframe, this would indeed place them all in the same timeframe, by Broly's wording and continued consideration of the Gallium being a threat, making the technique therefore not "ended." His rendition of the timeframe is butchered.
Even without that, as the Keigoku follows a continuous timeframe, rather than one that simply lasts one turn or move slot and then ends, it would strike in the same timeframe as the ice and wax launching towards Nagato and Hana, striking the barrier within the same times. As my convo with NK shows
You must be registered for see links
, travel time isn't taken that largely into account.
In all actuality, the Gallium should be a hardened, cooled down harmless mass due the time timeframe passages that have occurred since its creation, with the wax and ice coming at the same timeframe and the Keigoku rain also being in this timeframe due to its continuous nature.
3)Even if they do somehow use the preta path to block, we have another problem. As you can see from the previous turn
Nagato's hand is on Hana when the blocking seal technique starts. Due to being in direct contact of Nagato while this seal is up )and apparently inside of the seal)? Hana's chakra would be disrupted from the constant draining of it, thus living him (her?) to be unable to properly mold chakra to use his wind technique. This would lead to the bird crashing down on the both of them and killing them.
Also, even if this didn't happen, Hana's chakra would be absorbed by the seal the moment he tried to focus his wind chakra and send it through the air for his next technique. After all, as Joker states, he is within the seal.
Which also leads me to ask, is it even possible for Nagato to form the seal around 2 people?
Hana's chakra would not automatically be drained just because Nagato has formed the seal. As shown with Nagato's fight with Itachi, Bee, and Naruto. Nagato used Preta Path while holding onto both Naruto and Bee, but was able to choose not to apply the absorption powers of Preta Path to Killer Bee, affecting only Naruto, his Rasengan, and his chakra arm. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that Nagato can choose not to absorb chakra from Hana. The technique says that Nagato "CAN" absorb chakra directly from a target, not that it will happen automatically, which is proven by Nagato choosing to absorb from Naruto and choosing not to absorb from Bee simultaneously.
Also, as shown here, the Barrier was clearly able to cover an area that included both the Deva and Preta Path. [
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
]
4) Even if ALL of their clearly flawed move worked, since the bird had been coming down on them for an entire turn (As I have basically taken "control" of it by hitting it with Keigoku), the moment that they get back they should be hit by the bird which would crush them. This is especially so since they say that animals tend to writhe in pain for a bit even after theyre immediately hit with a killing blow. The body would fall on them and crush them. It should be noted that since I have "control" over the bird due to making it turn on it's master, that it is my description of the bird's movement that is counted, and that by replying, they have accepted my counter as fact. Any changed to the birds movement in their move would be god modding
It should be noted that this relies on no passage of time between the use of the toad summoning, and the reverse summoning. In all actuality, as the bird dives towards us and sees that we've vanished due to the toad summoning, it's strike would stop as its targets are no longer there, for however briefly. Otherwise, the bird would just continue down towards targets that are no longer there and slam into the ground. It is far more logical that the bird would not be diving down as its targets are gone, and then resume to dive once they return. Once again an attempt at Broly to butcher and skew the timeframe. At one point, he is arguing that the jutsu don't occur in the same timeframe. At another, he argues that the summoning and reverse summoning, being instant, creates such a small window of time that his moves from an entire turn ago are still occurring in real time as though no passage of time has occurred whatsoever, which would put them within the same timeframe as the ice and wax(which he supports by saying all of these things are flying at us at the same time), something he argues against. His argument is contradictory, twisted out of line with itself in order to establish a timeline that is favorable to him despite the fact that it cannot exist as he tries to describe.
In order for the bird to still be diving at us, in order for the gallium to still be active and a threat, that would require the timeframe of their usage to meld and overlap into the timeframe of his new attacks, as his new attacks are presented as simultaneously being a trap. In order for Preta Path to fail, then this is impossible, contradicting his own words.
5) It should be noted that I replied at 3:43 PM my time, and there was an edit done at 3:44. I have no idea what they changed or what they could have changed. It could have been a little, it could have been alot, but I do believe that editing after a post is illegal and grounds for a loss on their part regardless of what they were doing. And it's not as if I immediately quoted either. I quoted a full 15 minutes after they posted, which leads me to believe that they were trying to change something after I quoted.
Miss us with this BS.
You must be registered for see images
We edited as you were quoting, submitting the edit right before you submitted your quote. I then immediately hit edit again after submitting the first edit in order to fix a word, resulting in me not seeing your quote as the page hadn't updated to show your new post when I hit edit again. The edit did nothing to change the course of our move, which can be verified by a Gmod or admin if you're so pressed about it.
