JJ Madara vs. RSM Naruto

[KidGamer65]

Location: Madara vs. Naruto/Sasuke

Distance: 30m.

Knowledge: Full

Restrictions: World's Nature Energy

Final Arc Naruto vs. Peak Madara.

 

[Ambivalence]

Dual Rinnegan JJ Madara vs Teen RSM Naruto, right?

 

[KidGamer65]

Yup. Precisely.

 

[Kunihi]

please specify, feats only or something like that.

What is madara's strongest power?

 

[Dondaime Hokage Naruto]

Yup. Precisely.

Peak Madara is Rinne Sharingan Madara though... Not just Dual Rinnegan...
*Rinne Sharingan Madara wins with IT.
*Dual Rinnegan Madara wins with Limbo,CT,Juubi Dama. Also Naruto can not seal him. And Madara has way more chakra and he is on Hagoromo's Level.

 

[Ambivalence]

Naruto can win. He needs a solid hit with Sage Art: SBDRS so that he can destabilize the Bijuu chakra and extract it all out via Ashura Avatar (you only said NE is restricted). As for Madara's main arsenal:

- Limbos are kept busy by 5 clones
- CT satellites are either busted or Naruto simply takes flight and completely evades and collision
- LRS takes out the Juubidama tree
- CST is tanked by AA

Getting through PS is the problem - JJ Madara's is stronger than Sasuke's, FBD attempts are interrupted, regular BD are tanked, so if Naruto gives the TSB to a clone and makes him fire and hit with 9 BDRS while he himself is waiting with the SBDRS and lands them before Madara reforms Susano'o he can pull it off.

 

[Kunihi]

well, i don't see how madara would win by feats.

He definitely can't fight naruto out in the open, or else this will happen:

Spoiler

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his limbo isn't anything since naruto could handle them at least for a while with four clones that are very noobish with their new powers, and when he can use over a thousand against kaguya.

Don't see how chibaku tensei is a factor for someone who can casually bust them and is way too fast to get caught by the debri.

Juubidama never hits someone as fast as naruto, the tree would most likely get cut down before it ever got finished charging, not that it would do much considering Juubito's chakra arms could easily break the barrier that the juubidama couldn't, and naruto's own chakra arms are strong enough to clash with kaguyas for some time.

The thing is, what is madara's actual strongest power? If it's just susanoo, then naruto's basically fighting a PS with similar capabilities to Kakashi's as both are powered by the same chakra (madara's rikudou senjutsu + rinnegan chakra), madara's is just powered by his double rinnegan chakra and the shinjuu as well. And Naruto can take that down without a doubt.

If Madara can do what sasuke did and use a kind of Juubi avatar form + PS, then Naruto probably can't take him down.

 

[EZQ]

Is infinite tsukuyomi restricted?

 

[KidGamer65]

Is infinite tsukuyomi restricted?

Yeah it is.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I don't think Juubi jins can use their main sharingan technique. Obito couldn't phase himself. Madara didn't show any hints that he can use susanoo, even when he absolutely needed it. So Naruto wins.

 

[Ambivalence]

^ So blind Madara can use V3, but DR JJ Madara who has both of his eyes (both eyes = full power = PS) can't use Susano'o? And Obito couldn't phase because of the Juubi in him, he never said anything about warping, which is still a Sharingan technique.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'll post later.

 

[ARGUS]

Madara wins this mid/high diff
Without the ashura avatar, Naruto stands 0 chance in winning

Madaras PS >> BM avatar pre buff
Madaras buff > Narutos. Since he has the juubi, and both the rinnegans as well as six paths SM
So Madaras PS >> RSM avatar in terms of everything

--Naruto this time gets spanked by PS slashes and loses a tail or two every time he tries to block
--BDRS barrage gets sent back to Naruto by ST or Madara swings his blade to stop its charge up
--Madara forms the juubidama tree. And uses PS to stop all of Narutos attempts of cutting it down.
He then let's the juubidama go off and Naruto gets turned to dust

 

[Observer]

I don't think Juubi jins can use their main sharingan technique. Obito couldn't phase himself. Madara didn't show any hints that he can use susanoo, even when he absolutely needed it. So Naruto wins.

IMHO, Obito was restricted by plot, actually. Just think of it: Juubito with Kamui.. Naruto and Sasuke would never beat him, as he could just simply outlast them both and play defensively all the time. Also don't forget, that Madara used Kamui, even though he was JJ, lmao. And to add some sauce on top of that, it wasn't even his original sharingan nor Kamui is his own technique, which is some uber-class f.u.ckery I have to say. As for Madara not using Susano'o and other sharingan techniques.. I think you're right, he might've been restricted by some known-only-to-Kishimoto logic of his sharingan powers. Maybe if he switched to sharingan, then he would lose some JJ feats/powers and wouldn't be able to cast IT, because he would lack his rinnegan, or it would just make it longer for him to cast IT. However, to use Susano'o you don't really need your MS. MS is only needed to activate Susano'o for the first time and that's basically it. Madara was shown to have been using it when he was blind, back when he was completely revived. So him not using any sharingan techniques except Susano'o is probably some sort of restriction, but him not using Susano'o is a straight plot nerf, that's my point, IMO. What do you think?

 

[Icelerate]

I don't think Juubi jins can use their main sharingan technique. Obito couldn't phase himself. Madara didn't show any hints that he can use susanoo, even when he absolutely needed it. So Naruto wins.

Madara used Kakashi's kamui.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Madara shits if he can use his Susanooo. The small amount of Rikkudo chakra Madara possessed plus the Juubi' chakra makes his Susanoo stronger than Vote 2 Sasuke's no doubt then there's the fact that he could use SS which would be tiers above his Susanoo that is already stronger than Naruto RSM Kurama avatar. Infinite Tsukuyomi is even needed.

 

[KidGamer65]

Don't see how chibaku tensei is a factor for someone who can casually bust them and is way too fast to get caught by the debri.

Works well as a distraction.

Juubidama never hits someone as fast as naruto, the tree would most likely get cut down before it ever got finished charging, not that it would do much considering Juubito's chakra arms could easily break the barrier that the juubidama couldn't, and naruto's own chakra arms are strong enough to clash with kaguyas for some time.

Naruto isn't evading the explosion of 4 Super Juubidama going off at once, and as long as Madara protects the tree Naruto can't cut it down, then it goes off....but Madara survives due to Onymoton and Gudo Dama just like Obito did while Naruto is turned to ash, and I really hope that you aren't implying Kaguya's chakra arms>Naruto's>Obito's>Juubidama. :lol Cause if you are then you need to learn how that barrier works.

-Explosion occurs.
-Barrier expands.
-Then quickly contracts and pushes the energy outside of the roof.

Naruto's Avatar got damaged by Bijuu Dama and PS Chidori, so a single Juubidama would turn him to ash let alone 4 of them the size of PS.

The thing is, what is madara's actual strongest power? If it's just susanoo, then naruto's basically fighting a PS with similar capabilities to Kakashi's as both are powered by the same chakra (madara's rikudou senjutsu + rinnegan chakra), madara's is just powered by his double rinnegan chakra and the shinjuu as well. And Naruto can take that down without a doubt.

Kakashi's chakra doesn't equal Madara's chakra. Not now and not ever. Madara's Rikudo Senjutsu chakra simply boosts Kakashi's powers, doesn't make his power equal to the source of said power. Are you really going to argue that Kakashi's chakra w/ Obito's gift=Madara's in power?

Sasuke's PS is inferior to Madara's, by far, before any of them get their Rikudo based power ups. Madara gets a superior power up (Dual Rinnegan+Juubi) thus that gap only grows. Kakashi's Susanoo doesn't even begin to compare to Madara's. The only thing in Naruto's arsenal that even stands a chance of destroying Madara's Susanoo is BDFRS and that's assuming that you are correct in assuming that the gap between BD and BDFRS is the same as the gap between Rasengan and BD, but Madara can blow them away with Shinra Tensei. And if he blows them far enough away Naruto loses control of them since the Gudo Dama can't be controlled past 70 meters.

-If Naruto tries to fight him using his Avatar he gets spanked.
-If Naruto tries to make Avatar clones Madara does the same thing as his chakra is incomparably larger due to possessing the Juubi.

If Madara can do what sasuke did and use a kind of Juubi avatar form + PS, then Naruto probably can't take him down.

He theoretically can if allowed Rinne Sharingan and Infinite Tsukuyomi, but let's not get into that.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Madara.

 

[DHOH]

Madara has to many questions behind his powers..

 

[Kunihi]

Works well as a distraction.

It would be a waste of chakra and time when it's so easy to deal with.

Naruto isn't evading the explosion of 4 Super Juubidama going off at once, and as long as Madara protects the tree Naruto can't cut it down, then it goes off....but Madara survives due to Onymoton and Gudo Dama just like Obito did while Naruto is turned to ash, and I really hope that you aren't implying Kaguya's chakra arms>Naruto's>Obito's>Juubidama. :lol Cause if you are then you need to learn how that barrier works.

How is madara going to protect the tree and why can't naruto evade the super juubidamas? Why can't naruto just survive with onmyoton and gudou dama as well?

If the juubidama isn't weaker than obito's chakra arms, then explain how the barrier works.

-Explosion occurs.
-Barrier expands.
-Then quickly contracts and pushes the energy outside of the roof.

Which means that the force of the explosion did not provide enough power for the barrier to deform enough to be broken while juubito's chakra arms did. Therefore juubito's chakra arms are able to exert more power than the juubidama does on the point of the barrier that it affects. So no, the super juubidamas are not a problem.

Naruto's Avatar got damaged by Bijuu Dama and PS Chidori, so a single Juubidama would turn him to ash let alone 4 of them the size of PS.

Yet Naruto's avatar can withstand hits from Sasuke's PS slashes while the super juubidama doesn't exert as much force as juubito's chakra arms do on the barrier. So they hardly do anything.

Kakashi's chakra doesn't equal Madara's chakra. Not now and not ever. Madara's Rikudo Senjutsu chakra simply boosts Kakashi's powers, doesn't make his power equal to the source of said power. Are you really going to argue that Kakashi's chakra w/ Obito's gift=Madara's in power?

Quality of the chakra powering the susanoo is what gives it its power, quantity is what allows kakashi to use it for long periods of time, the quality is the same as the madara who juubito took chakra from there's no arguing against that.

Sasuke's PS is inferior to Madara's, by far, before any of them get their Rikudo based power ups. Madara gets a superior power up (Dual Rinnegan+Juubi) thus that gap only grows. Kakashi's Susanoo doesn't even begin to compare to Madara's. The only thing in Naruto's arsenal that even stands a chance of destroying Madara's Susanoo is BDFRS and that's assuming that you are correct in assuming that the gap between BD and BDFRS is the same as the gap between Rasengan and BD, but Madara can blow them away with Shinra Tensei. And if he blows them far enough away Naruto loses control of them since the Gudo Dama can't be controlled past 70 meters.

The bolded is pretty much the only evidence your bringing to the table here. Why would shinra tensei work on gudoudamas?

-If Naruto tries to fight him using his Avatar he gets spanked.
-If Naruto tries to make Avatar clones Madara does the same thing as his chakra is incomparably larger due to possessing the Juubi.

I don't see any reasoning behind naruto getting spanked when he uses his avatar.
Why does madara have the ability to use clones that can in turn use chakra avatars?

He theoretically can if allowed Rinne Sharingan and Infinite Tsukuyomi, but let's not get into that.

Everything you're claiming madara can do is theoretical.