Jiraya was definitely Itachi's superior

Reflection · Sep 9, 2013

There was nothing "short" about what you've just posted. And itachi>Jiraiya any day.

Edo Odin · Sep 9, 2013

T Bogard said:
Protection:
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Repulsion towards enemy:
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Fire sealing:
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Or clone, or kawarimi

The fire will have spread all over the hair in mere seconds, at which point Jiraiya will have to deal with the fire by removing his hair somehow, which would in turn make him vulnerable.

You're assuming he'll get in Sage Mode, which I must say is a far-fetched assumption. In any case, evading the needles or counter attacking with a Fire Ball would not be hard at all, at which point Itachi could attack with the Amaterasu once again. A couple of needles are not going to protect him from the flames.

Yeah, no. A man on fire won't be able to casually pull out a scroll, make seals and remove the fire. Not to mention that Itachi will be standing just feats away, and I assure you, he's not going to let Jiraiya just quell the flames like that.

You also, for some reason, seem to assume that Jiraiya knows everything about the execution of the Amaterasu. He's seen the flames before, but when it comes to it's speed and execution, he's not knowledgeable at all as far as we know.

Bogard · Sep 9, 2013

tingun said:
Jiraiya has never observed amaterasu being used, he has minimal info on how it is cast, if it is instantaneous, or where the jutsu originates from when cast.

Naruto never saw Amaterasu getting cast, yet he knew it was a MS technique used by eyes, enough to even warn Bee against them. Your point is moot

Narutohokage7 · Sep 9, 2013

Its a bit hard to say. Though Jiraiya always has been under rated in a lot of ways.

slaton02 · Sep 9, 2013

Yeah Jiraiya s***s on Itachi but you know Itachi tards, they ride him so hard they won't admit

Edo Odin · Sep 9, 2013

T Bogard said:
Naruto never saw Amaterasu getting cast, yet he knew it was a MS technique used by eyes, enough to even warn Bee against them. Your point is moot

When was this again?

EDIT: Remembered.

And no, his point is not moot. Naruto knowing that the Amaterasu is dangerous does in no way justify you giving Jiraiya what seems to be full knowledge on the technique.

Bogard · Sep 9, 2013

Reflection said:
There was nothing "short" about what you've just posted. And itachi>Jiraiya any day.

Not really. This is the longer version U_U

Rebutal

Genjutsu counters

First of all, i'd like to point out the fact that all Itachi's genjutsu are made in close range battle. Whether it is against
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, against
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, or against
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This is also confirmed by the databook

So for Itachi to actually even start thinking about puting Jiraya in a genjutsu, it would have to happen in a close range battle. Here is where the problem begins since Jiraya is a long range fighter using and abusing of his superior ninjutsu

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Or summons

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Jiraya being a long range fighter, Itachi would have difficuties to find opportunities to place Jiraya in a genjutsu and take advantage of it.

Also, contrary to the popular belief, Kai release can break out of any genjutsus including Itachi's. The reason why Itachi's tsukuyomi is unbreakable is not because of the power of it, but because it takes time in few seconds, so not giving time to the opponent to use kai release and break it. Now it depends on the users skills while using the kai release method. Like Jiraya said, to break genjutsu, you must try your best to stop your chakra flow
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. Doing that will break any genjutsu. That's
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.

Jiraya
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, the one he used on a woman to distract him, something that Itachi noticed, which shows he is skilfull in breaking genjutsus

Naruto for example was capable to break
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that Itachi gave, but still wasn't able to overcome the genjutsu completely. The reason behind this, Itachi already gave it himself. It's because he
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. That again shows that a more skilful kai release user could have broken Itachi's genjutsu completely

Another example is the Orochimaru vs Itachi battle. Itachi managed to put Orochimaru in
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. Since Kai release needs both hands to be together to be performed, it's for that reason Orochimaru struggled to break it. But Orochimaru could have broken it if he managed to put his hands together in time. He was already close to it even. It's for that reason that
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So like you can see, breaking Itachi's genjutsu isn't impossible at all, far from it actually. Depends now on the opponents skills in using the kai release method. But in general, genjutsu is used to create a diversion for a following attack, not to defeat the enemy

Those are the reasons why i believe that Jiraya could have broken Itachi's genjutsu if necessary. He has already shown the skill even. But would Itachi allow it to happen? That's probably where the real debate is

Anyway, like Jiraya also said, if yourself is incapable to break a genjutsu,
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. Jiraya always starts battles with summons as partners [
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] [
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] [
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So even if either of them was caught in a genjutsu at some point, the other will make him free from it exactly like a Jinchuriki's method for example. Gamabunta has shown the capacity
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, so he could use this method that would break Jiraya free from it and vice verse

Those are the main reasons why i believe genjutsu won't be an issue in this fight

Ninjutsu superiority

Jiraya is one of the most skilful ninjutsu user in the entire manga. Minato even said he thinks
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. During their encounter in part1 even, both Itachi and Kisame were
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that they were already trapped by Jiraya's jutsu from the start, which could be considered as a testament of Jiraya's skilful use of ninjutsu

Here is where the problem begins since Jiraya is a long range fighter using and abusing of his superior ninjutsu

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Or summons

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Talking about summons, my opponent forgot to talk about Gamabunta's help here. His suiton weree huge enough to even counter Shukaku's high level of fuuton technique(see above), so it will render Itachi's use of Katons meaningless and more importantly, Jiraya will even take advantage of it in the ninjutsu battle

Not only that, but like my opponent stated, Jiraya could also use combo attacks as powerful
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. Just to make you remember,
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, but himself look like shit compared to this jutsu. So Itachi won't survive if he receives an attack of this scale and unfortunately for him, he doesn't possess the ninjutsu arsenal to counter or even evade it

Jiraya also has high level of long range attacks thanks to his hair, capable to easily destroy huge summons

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Those are the reasons why i believe Jiraya would totally dominate the ninjutsu battle

How does Jiraya counters Amaterasu:

Jman already has
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. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a
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that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins
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the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and
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depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able
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during a while and use a
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to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able
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before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released)

Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu. During the time Amaterasu would be released, he could use
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to protect himself and even
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at Itachi after that with his needle Senbon. Other method could be
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(burning a KB is useless).

Also, even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a
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How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:

Gaara helped us to know that
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. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with
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(Jiraya even said it was
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). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo

If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in
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like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the
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like he did against Pain

Sasuke made us understand
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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
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(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
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or
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or even something else in his arsenal.

We also know thanks to Kabuto, that
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, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:

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Stamina advantage:

Jiraya undoubtely has the stamina advantage since his chakra was huge enough to even allow him to use Sage Mode. He was spamming techniques since he entered Pain's territory and i never saw him run out of stamina in the entire manga. On the contrary, most of Itachi's powerful techniques take a lot of tole on his body.
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with more than
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and
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use of it
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greatly. It also gives the opportunity to the opponent to take advantage of it and finish him off

Jiraya wins :scorps:

slimreaper · Sep 9, 2013

T Bogard said:
I'll keep it short U_U

Jiraya is simply a perfect counter for him in almost everything

Ninjutsu

- Self explanatory. Rare are the people capable to compete with Jiraya in the category(high level katons, doton, sealing scrolls, hair offensive and defensive techniques, powerful summons with sennin techniques, and so on)

Genjutsu

While it's true Itachi is greater in the category, Jiraya already managed to counter Itachi's genjutsu in part1. He already knows the pre-requist to counter genjutsu(he is the one who taught it to Naruto, only that Naruto lacked skills back then. Genjutsu is also useless on clone and with his high chakra reserves, using clones are a piece of cake for him. He is also a adept summoning user and thus with the partner method, he is virtually immune to Itachi's genjutsus

In sennin mode, it's even easier since he receives sennin chakra continuously from an external source(Pa and Ma) and thus making the use of genjutsu useless

Also in SM, he has the strongest genjutsu in the manga(databook), so GG
Taijutsu

Itachi is superior in taijutsu, but it won't do much because of Jiraya's close, mid-long range ninjutsu versatility, his attack-defensive hair and so on. And in SM, he is clearly superior to Itachi with the increased power and speed boast to the point he is capable to reach the floor 20meters a way from him before his sandal touches him while taking his time preparing Chou Odama rasengan before, and with frog katas it's the game ender

Susanoo

It's useless against Yomi Numa since it can't protect from underground, not only that but even the yata mirror is useless against him because he uses senjutsu attacks, which is different from ninjutsu(yata's hype covers ninjutsu only)

Stamina

I think it's pretty clear Jiraya shits on Itachi in the category U_U

Side effects

Itachi can only use his most powerful moves(MS techniques) 3 or 4 times a day while alive when Jiraya can spam his moves without even breaking a sweat U_U

No wonder Itachi was scared of Jiraya in part1. He is Itachi's superior. Jiraya is so underrated on the base it's not even funny. He is the only sannin who managed to achieve SM, which has been described to be the counter-part of MS in this manga(Jiraya-Itachi, Kabuto-Sasuke/Itachi, Naruto-Sasuke, Hashirama-Madara).

Kabuto > Sasuke/Itachi
Naruto > Sasuke
Hashirama > Madara

So? Lol

1. even the largest katon is fodder before amaterasu
2. how would a toad break jiraiya out of tsukuyomi in less than a second? thats all it takes to end jiraiya
3. jiraiya's SM taijutsu is matched by this