jiraya vs danzu

[wael reda]

just a question ,can danzo reappear behind jiraya and attack him after using Izanagi?
if that being said was true ,then danzu actually could win both scenarios ,otherwise i dont see him beating jiraya at any scenario

 

[KidGamer65]

just a question ,can danzo reappear behind jiraya and attack him after using Izanagi?
if that being said was true ,then danzu actually could win both scenarios ,otherwise i dont see him beating jiraya at any scenario

Yup, but SM Jiraiya and the Toads should be able to sense, so he won't surprise attack anyone in the second scenario.

 

[Nattana]

Lol. This excuse?

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Karin spent all her time trying to find out how it worked so she could tell Sasuke, only for him to cut her off and say the same exact thing that she was about to tell him.

Obito made it clear that Sasuke has been continuously pressuring Danzo so Izanagi will be used up in 10 minutes instead of Danzo releasing it to save time. Can't do that if he doesn't know how the jutsu works.

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And lol @ the bold: Susanoo's release expelled enough chakra at once to overpower the Cursed Seal. That is something he can do regardless of who is talking to him. Not to mention that even goes beyond my original point. Sasuke>Danzo. Taking Sasuke from an earlier point of the fight, where he was clearly weaker, isn't going to prove your point.



Being aware that "Madara" is there isn't going to hamper his fighting ability. He specifically reserved Koto for him anyway.

She warned Sasuke about Danzo's Wind Bullets, she healed him, simply was there and took some time off Danzo's Cursed Seal by rushing at Danzo and distracting him.

Also, had Danzo not invoked Itachi during CS, Sasuke would've gotten killed like a pig. Even Tobi was about to use Kamui to save Sasuke.

He wasn't stronger than Danzo - just deal with it.

 

[KidGamer65]

You first of all, need to grasp the concept of what I mean when I say "Sasuke>Danzo". Stop using Sasuke with lower levels of Susanoo at earlier points in the fight to try and say that Danzo would beat Sasuke at his peak of the fight, cause the manga clearly shows that he can't. You keep mentioning this Curse Mark BS, even though Sasuke got stronger, thus allowing him to counter it. Curse Seal isn't a valid argument when referring to Sasuke (Complete Susanoo) vs Danzo

She warned Sasuke about Danzo's Wind Bullets, she healed him, simply was there and took some time off Danzo's Cursed Seal by rushing at Danzo and distracting him.

Her shouting out a warning doesn't equate to Sasuke being completely obvious that Danzo was attacking him, and the Curse Seal was already countered by Sasuke, in canon.

Also, had Danzo not invoked Itachi during CS, Sasuke would've gotten killed like a pig. Even Tobi was about to use Kamui to save Sasuke.

It was broken because Susanoo was activated, something Sasuke can do at any time. Manga clearly shows that. His Susanoo only changed AFTER it was broken. So once again, stop making excuses.

He wasn't stronger than Danzo - just deal with it.

Manga clearly shows that he was, but then again, arguing with canon is a typical thing on NB.

 

[Nattana]

You first of all, need to grasp the concept of what I mean when I say "Sasuke>Danzo". Stop using Sasuke with lower levels of Susanoo at earlier points in the fight to try and say that Danzo would beat Sasuke at his peak of the fight, cause the manga clearly shows that he can't. You keep mentioning this Curse Mark BS, even though Sasuke got stronger, thus allowing him to counter it. Curse Seal isn't a valid argument when referring to Sasuke (Complete Susanoo) vs Danzo



Her shouting out a warning doesn't equate to Sasuke being completely obvious that Danzo was attacking him, and the Curse Seal was already countered by Sasuke, in canon.


It was broken because Susanoo was activated, something Sasuke can do at any time. Manga clearly shows that. His Susanoo only changed AFTER it was broken. So once again, stop making excuses.



Manga clearly shows that he was, but then again, arguing with canon is a typical thing on NB.

I'm arguing because you clearly like to bend things to your liking. Exclamation marks coming from Sasuke clearly state that he hadn't known about Danzo's Wind Bullets before Karin warned him.

Obito stated himself that Sasuke broke the CS because of the hatred that had grown in him (due to all the Itachi stuff). If Sasuke could simply use his Susano'o to break out, he would've done it straight off the bat instead of putting himself in danger of getting killed.

Also, what does Complete Susano'o even change? Pretty much nothing, since Sasuke doesn't have chakra reserves to outlast Danzo with Susano'o active all the time and with it inactive, he canonically could find openings. Also, with no Karin and Obito in there, Danzo gets another Izanagi to use.

 

[wael reda]

Yup, but SM Jiraiya and the Toads should be able to sense, so he won't surprise attack anyone in the second scenario.

ok,then danzo wins the first scenario
sm jiraya was surprise attacked by pain who didnt appear instantly let alone danzo who would appear behind him from nothing instantly ,that is similar to ftg ,isnt it?

how could you say danzo wins both if you think sm jiraya can deal with danzo’s reappearing?

 

[KidGamer65]

ok,then danzo wins the first scenario
sm jiraya was surprise attacked by pain who didnt appear instantly let alone danzo who would appear behind him from nothing instantly ,that is similar to ftg ,isnt it?

how could you say danzo wins both if you think sm jiraya can deal with danzo’s reappearing?

Nagato's Pain bodies can't be sensed. Probably because he constantly changes the frequency of his chakra. Ma and Pa are confirmed sensors, yet they didn't sense Pain either. And its like Hiraishin, but you don't appear right behind the user, and Danzo is so much slower than Jiraiya that once sensed, he'll be countered with ease.

Because, the reappearing isn't the reason why I think SM Jiraiya loses.

 

[wael reda]

Without kA danzu can't beat ms sasuke as manga showed
Some people think the opposite because Karin healed sasuke once during the fight but no ,I don't think so because sasuke's getting injured is a plot hole ,sasuke could have fininshed him with amatrasu or Susano like he was doing before that ,and please don't tell me that he was out of chakra ,sasuke used susano against kakashi after that ,so why didn't he use it in the last attack against danzu instead of attacking him with a close range attack and getting injured

 

[KidGamer65]

I'm arguing because you clearly like to bend things to your liking. Exclamation marks coming from Sasuke clearly state that he hadn't known about Danzo's Wind Bullets before Karin warned him.

Not necessarily. Exclamation points show surprise. Danzo attacked him from the back, so there is no reason why he wouldn't be surprised. That doesn't translate to him not being able to dodge on his own.

Not to mention its still irrelevant to the main point, which is Sasuke>Danzo. If he needs a surprise attack to kill Sasuke, then he's weaker.

Obito stated himself that Sasuke broke the CS because of the hatred that had grown in him (due to all the Itachi stuff). If Sasuke could simply use his Susano'o to break out, he would've done it straight off the bat instead of putting himself in danger of getting killed.

He said that he broke it because of his power. Hatred increased his power and let him get another level of Susanoo, which is the power that Obito referred to, which is the reason he broke it. Thus, simply activating a Complete Susanoo or higher is enough to break the curse.

I'll give you the point that without the upgrade in Susanoo, he would have died, but then again, it doesn't matter as all you've done is show that Danzo>Sasuke w/Skeletal Susanoo, something manga made clear multiple times, something I already agree with.

Also, what does Complete Susano'o even change? Pretty much nothing, since Sasuke doesn't have chakra reserves to outlast Danzo with Susano'o active all the time and with it inactive, he canonically could find openings. Also, with no Karin and Obito in there, Danzo gets another Izanagi to use.

Complete Susanoo is the reason he was able to pressure Danzo enough to actually beat him in the first place. You saying that him having it from the start doesn't change anything is pretty much denying fact, again. Another Izanagi isn't going to change the fact that Sasuke had him locked down at the end. All he needs to do is pressure him with Susanoo, force him to use that last minute, and then beat him the same way he did in canon.

Stop arguing with canon. Its getting pretty annoying. Sasuke>Danzo.

 

[wael reda]

Nagato's Pain bodies can't be sensed. Probably because he constantly changes the frequency of his chakra. Ma and Pa are confirmed sensors, yet they didn't sense Pain either. And its like Hiraishin, but you don't appear right behind the user, and Danzo is so much slower than Jiraiya that once sensed, he'll be countered with ease.

Because, the reappearing isn't the reason why I think SM Jiraiya loses.

First ,I think pain's bodies can be sensed as sm naruto was able to sense the animal path inside one of boss toads 's mouth ( I can't remember his name)and attacking her several times
May jiraya's being surprise attacked is a plot too
Whatever how on earth will danzu beat sm jiraya without izanagi's reappearing !!?

 

[KidGamer65]

First ,I think pain's bodies can be sensed as sm naruto was able to sense the animal path inside one of boss toads 's mouth ( I can't remember his name)and attacking her several times
May jiraya's being surprise attacked is a plot too
Whatever how on earth will danzu beat sm jiraya without izanagi's reappearing !!?

He did?

Baku and his Fuuton. Jiraiya can't move during it, so no jutsu, and he won't be able to stop the incoming Fuuton anyway.

 

[Nattana]

Not necessarily. Exclamation points show surprise. Danzo attacked him from the back, so there is no reason why he wouldn't be surprised. That doesn't translate to him not being able to dodge on his own.

He wasn't aware of Danzo's presence and didn't know the mechanics of Izanagi. Danzo was behind him. If Sasuke could see the attack coming, Karin wouldn't have even warned him. Yet she was yelling hard to make sure Sasuke heard her...

Not to mention its still irrelevant to the main point, which is Sasuke>Danzo. If he needs a surprise attack to kill Sasuke, then he's weaker.

If one's fighting style relies heavily on sneak and surprise attacks, then using them and winning with them is something that makes you believe that one is weaker than their enemy? Ok. Let me not comment on that.

Complete Susanoo is the reason he was able to pressure Danzo enough to actually beat him in the first place. You saying that him having it from the start doesn't change anything is pretty much denying fact, again. Another Izanagi isn't going to change the fact that Sasuke had him locked down at the end. All he needs to do is pressure him with Susanoo, force him to use that last minute, and then beat him the same way he did in canon.

Stop arguing with canon. Its getting pretty annoying. Sasuke>Danzo.

To me, Sasuke broke free from CS thanks to special chakra sprouting in his brain - something that upgraded his Susano'o after he had been overflown with emotions. If we have Complete Susano'o Sasuke vs Danzo from the beginning, there's no chakra sprouting and no getting rid of CS.

Also, using Complete Susano'o drains obviously way more chakra than using Skele Susano'o. There's no way Sasuke could outlast Danzo with it, since it doesn't matter whether which Susano'o attacks he survives.

 

[Beans2]

He did?

Baku and his Fuuton. Jiraiya can't move during it, so no jutsu, and he won't be able to stop the incoming Fuuton anyway.

Dark Swamp, fire element, or another boss summon takes out Baku.

 

[wael reda]

He did?

Baku and his Fuuton. Jiraiya can't move during it, so no jutsu, and he won't be able to stop the incoming Fuuton anyway.

Remember how naruto beat animal path


Baku can be dialed with by swamp under world ,fire jutsus ,ma 's water jutsu which with she killed pain's hidden animal or one of jiraya's boss summonings ...etc, there are many ways which with jiraya can deal with baku
Danzu's fuuton jutsus can be evaded by sm jiraya's speed ,alright!!?

But on the other hand danzu has no counter for many of jiraya's jutsus except for izanagi ,like swamp under world ,fire wind oil combination ..etc
I think sm jiraya can force danzu to spam using izanagi like sasuke did

 

[KidGamer65]

He wasn't aware of Danzo's presence and didn't know the mechanics of Izanagi. Danzo was behind him. If Sasuke could see the attack coming, Karin wouldn't have even warned him. Yet she was yelling hard to make sure Sasuke heard her...

If one's fighting style relies heavily on sneak and surprise attacks, then using them and winning with them is something that makes you believe that one is weaker than their enemy? Ok. Let me not comment on that.

At that point, he was very well aware that Danzo would reappear after being killed.

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So he knew enough to expect a surprise attack, and someone warning someone else doesn't mean that the person didn't see it coming, or that the person wouldn't be able to react accordingly on their own. Karin saw that Sasuke's back was turned, how would she know if Sasuke would be able to dodge on his own or not? From her point of view, it looks like he's about to get hit, thus she warned him.

Like I said. If Danzo can only kill Sasuke if his back is turned, then he isn't stronger. If Konohamaru stronger than Naruto if he sneaks up on him and stabs him in the back? Lol, obviously not.

Not to mention Danzo only got that opening because Sasuke used Amaterasu and Susanoo at once. If he had Complete Susanoo from the start, he'd be using arrows instead, thus no opening for Danzo. So once again, Sasuke>Danzo.

To me, Sasuke broke free from CS thanks to special chakra sprouting in his brain - something that upgraded his Susano'o after he had been overflown with emotions. If we have Complete Susano'o Sasuke vs Danzo from the beginning, there's no chakra sprouting and no getting rid of CS.

Well, that's just an assumption, backed by no fact. The special chakra in his brain was only stated to be related to the awakening of the Sharingan and nothing else. There isn't even evidence that the special chakra in the brain is related to Susanoo, or that Susanoo is formed from that.

From what Obito said and what the manga shows. Complete Susanoo was enough of a surge to allow Sasuke to break out. That's it.

Also, using Complete Susano'o drains obviously way more chakra than using Skele Susano'o. There's no way Sasuke could outlast Danzo with it, since it doesn't matter whether which Susano'o attacks he survives.

Except Susanoo doesn't need to active all the time, as the manga showed, Sasuke was capable of fighting by using it intervals. Not to mention Amaterasu+Susanoo drains a lot of chakra, more than Complete Susanoo (Not in the long run) as Susanoo dropped aftwards, but Sasuke was forced to use both at the same time since he lacked a consistent way to pressure Danzo, something he gains with Complete Susanoo.

 

[KidGamer65]

Remember how naruto beat animal path

You have a point there. I guess they can be sensed.

Baku can be dialed with by swamp under world ,fire jutsus ,ma 's water jutsu which with she killed pain's hidden animal or one of jiraya's
boss summonings ...etc, there are many ways which with jiraya can deal with baku

I've explained why Jiraiya can't deal with Baku. How is Yomi Numa going to help...though I can say that I did forget about Ma and Pa's Ninjutsu, so I can agree that Danzo loses Scenario 2.

 

[Beans2]

You have a point there. I guess they can be sensed.



I've explained why Jiraiya can't deal with Baku. How is Yomi Numa going to help...though I can say that I did forget about Ma and Pa's Ninjutsu, so I can agree that Danzo loses Scenario 2.

I don't understand, why can't Jiraiya just shoot a katon at Baku?

 

[wael reda]

I don't understand, why can't Jiraiya just shoot a katon at Baku?

Neither nor I
I think jraya can do that ,he has a much stronger fire than sasuke's as he can enhance his fire with toads's oil to make it a jiubi sized katon

 

[super yang]

scene 1 is a 50/50 because of paralysis seal & Izanagi

jiraiya wins scene 2 because nature energy>paralysis seal, says logic

 

[ARGUS]

Danzo wins the first scenario, and loses the second scenario