[VS] Jiraiya vs 3rd Raikage

[Apêx1]

Location: Sandaime vs Naruto
Distance: 20 meters
Restrictions: None
Conditions: Sandaime gets Darui's Black Lightning feats
Intel: None

Jiraiya starts in Base but is allowed to enter SM.

 

[EZQ]

3rd might lose due to no knowledge on frog song.

 

[DHOH]

Jiraiya lose.

 

[Apêx1]

3rd might lose due to no knowledge on frog song.

Frog Song can only happen if Jiraiya can summon Ma and Pa, which requires a ritual.

 

[KidGamer65]

3rd should babyshake the man.

 

[Passerby]

If Jiraiya starts in Base then the he gets blitzed neg diff. He needs to SM to evade that walking tank

 

[Xlad]

3rd Raikage maims him simply thanks to his RCM. Nothing in Jiraiya's arsenal can stop Third from charging and striking him down up close.

 

[Beans2]

Lel what. Jiraiya's got no chance starting in base.

 

[Apêx1]

So people don't think something like Swamp of the Underworld can give Jiraiya enough time to use his Toad Oil Flame Bullet via a clone while the real Jiraiya attempts to summon Ma+Pa?

 

[Tantalus Thief]

3rd Raikage puts him down.

 

[Conspirator.]

The third raikage should win.

 

[Xlad]

Why exactly would Swamp of the Underworld be a good method for distracting him?

- Is that technique is actually viable for desert terrain?
- Third Raikage's Lightning (Nukite more speciifically) overpowers Earth of that level since he took a far more powerful attack (FRS) with ease.
- Base Jiraiya doesn't have feats that can keep up with Third Raikage's speed. Especially since SM was needed for Naruto to follow Third Raikage's movement.
- Toad Oil Flame Bullet honestly can't do jack to him. Period.

 

[Apêx1]

Why exactly would Swamp of the Underworld be a good method for distracting him?

- Is that technique is actually viable for desert terrain?
- Third Raikage's Lightning (Nukite more speciifically) overpowers Earth of that level since he took a far more powerful attack (FRS) with ease.
- Base Jiraiya doesn't have feats that can keep up with Third Raikage's speed. Especially since SM was needed for Naruto to follow Third Raikage's movement.
- Toad Oil Flame Bullet honestly can't do jack to him. Period.

-It's viable on any terrain.

-Nukite being durable doesn't mean he's immune to being pulled down. It's not made of Raiton unless the user chooses to imbue it with Raiton. IC Raikage's have not been shown to do it without a purpose. If Manda was sunk instantly then Sandaime is sunk instantly as well assuming Jiraiya uses a massive swamp.
-SM was needed to react to Raikage's speed at the very last second. Reacting to his speed at any given moment is not all that hard. He's capable of being on level speed-wise (as in without getting blitzed) by people like Kisame, 6POP and Itachi. Not really seeing why I should believe the Sandaime can outright blitz him, it's ridiculous to say so with his lack of feats.
-Oil stays on him and he's going to be continuously burning with no way of putting the fire out. That would inflict damage, and it'd give Jiraiya the time he needs to summon Ma and Pa while his clone is fighting Sandaime with Bunta, which can help him guarantee a win.

 

[KidGamer65]

-It's viable on any terrain.

-Nukite being durable doesn't mean he's immune to being pulled down. It's not made of Raiton unless the user chooses to imbue it with Raiton. IC Raikage's have not been shown to do it without a purpose. If Manda was sunk instantly then Sandaime is sunk instantly as well assuming Jiraiya uses a massive swamp.
-SM was needed to react to Raikage's speed at the very last second. Reacting to his speed at any given moment is not all that hard. He's capable of being on level speed-wise (as in without getting blitzed) by people like Kisame, 6POP and Itachi. Not really seeing why I should believe the Sandaime can outright blitz him, it's ridiculous to say so with his lack of feats.
-Oil stays on him and he's going to be continuously burning with no way of putting the fire out. That would inflict damage, and it'd give Jiraiya the time he needs to summon Ma and Pa while his clone is fighting Sandaime with Bunta, which can help him guarantee a win.

-You do realize that Black Lightning Panther easily counters Yomi Numa right?

-True, but not being blitzed by Pain, Kisame and Itachi doesn't mean much when V1 Raikage is around V1 Ay's level, and V1 Ay is faster than Itachi by quite a good amount. Jiraiya might not be blitzed with zero reaction from 20m, but he's definitely not gaining any distance that'd let him set anything up.

-No. Flame burns the oil and it becomes flame. There isn't oil inside the flame that'd cause him to keep burning after the fact. And no, it wouldn't give him time to win this match since he not only needs to summon Ma and Pa, he needs to prep the Sound Genjutsu. A clone in Base and a toad summon aren't stalling him for that long. Not a chance.

 

[Apêx1]

-You do realize that Black Lightning Panther easily counters Yomi Numa right?

You mean after the hand seals have been iniated and the black lightning forms? Because it's not going to appear after he thinks about it.

-True, but not being blitzed by Pain, Kisame and Itachi doesn't mean much when V1 Raikage is around V1 Ay's level, and V1 Ay is faster than Itachi by quite a good amount. Jiraiya might not be blitzed with zero reaction from 20m, but he's definitely not gaining any distance that'd let him set anything up.

Not sure how you were able to determine v1 Ay being a decent amount faster then Itachi. Bee was keeping up just fine with v1 Ay in Base, whereas he wasn't keeping up with Itachi's speed. Yomi Numa can be done far faster then any blitz, and with no intel he isn't avoiding it at all.

-No. Flame burns the oil and it becomes flame. There isn't oil inside the flame that'd cause him to keep burning after the fact. And no, it wouldn't give him time to win this match since he not only needs to summon Ma and Pa, he needs to prep the Sound Genjutsu. A clone in Base and a toad summon aren't stalling him for that long. Not a chance.

No man, the flame kept burning the entire time

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and the on the next page you can see that it's still burning on the top right panel

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. And I'm not saying he needs Sound Genjutsu to win, I am of the opinion that Jiraiya can defeat Sandaime without Frog Song. I definitely don't believe he has the time to use Frog Song anyways.

 

[KidGamer65]

You mean after the hand seals have been iniated and the black lightning forms? Because it's not going to appear after he thinks about it.



Not sure how you were able to determine v1 Ay being a decent amount faster then Itachi. Bee was keeping up just fine with v1 Ay in Base, whereas he wasn't keeping up with Itachi's speed. Yomi Numa can be done far faster then any blitz, and with no intel he isn't avoiding it at all.



No man, the flame kept burning the entire time

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and the on the next page you can see that it's still burning on the top right panel

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. And I'm not saying he needs Sound Genjutsu to win, I am of the opinion that Jiraiya can defeat Sandaime without Frog Song. I definitely don't believe he has the time to use Frog Song anyways.

Obviously. :lol What in the world kind of question is that?

Base B was never keeping up with V1 Ay. V1 B himself said that Ay is capable of outspeeding him IIRC. Yomi Numa literally does nothing to help Jiraiya hinder the Raikage since he can easily counter it. The best he can do is hold him for a few seconds, or rather the amount of times it takes to make the ram handsign.

And if we want to talk no intel, Jiraiya is far more likely to engage him first and then realize that he'll have to enter Sage Mode rather than attempting to enter from the very start, but either way, Raikage would still eat him for breakfast.

Which is because it had something to burn, thus keeping the flame alive. It can't burn Raikage so how will the flame stay alive? Either way, it won't even hurt him to the point where he can't fight, so I'm not sure what good this is supposed to do, especially since you don't think Genjutsu is needed. Jiraiya's clone in Base and a toad are easily manhandled and then Jiraiya, who's rendered unable to do anything to do the summoning process gets shanked, or he stops his summoning process and then shanks him.

 

[Apêx1]

Obviously. :lol What in the world kind of question is that?

He'd already be far under ground level.

Base B was never keeping up with V1 Ay. V1 B himself said that Ay is capable of outspeeding him IIRC. Yomi Numa literally does nothing to help Jiraiya hinder the Raikage since he can easily counter it. The best he can do is hold him for a few seconds, or rather the amount of times it takes to make the ram handsign.

v1 Bee said his fastest attack was only ever dodged by his brother prior to Sasuke dodging it. We don't know if v1 Ay did that or v2 Ay. I already know v2 Ay runs circles around v1 Bee. And I am not saying he's using a small scale Yomi Numa, I'm saying he's using a large scale on like the one used on Manda. That means the 20 meters between him and Raikage is pretty much a swamp the entire distance. Not only does he have to get out by literally climbing out after he negates all the Swamp above him with BL (not sure how this works) but he'd also have to negate the swamp in front of him until the 20 meter distance to Jiraiya. Then there's the fact that he'd have to cover that distance while being lit on fire with Oil+Katon.

And if we want to talk no intel, Jiraiya is far more likely to engage him first and then realize that he'll have to enter Sage Mode rather than attempting to enter from the very start, but either way, Raikage would still eat him for breakfast.

Well we can't really say how IC Jiraiya fights in this situation. Against Orochimaru he started with summon+Yomi Numa, against Itachi/Kisame he also manipulated the location with toad stomach. So we can't really say he's unlikely to start off a fight by changing the location of the area, and Yomi Numa is one way of doing so.

Which is because it had something to burn, thus keeping the flame alive. It can't burn Raikage so how will the flame stay alive? Either way, it won't even hurt him to the point where he can't fight, so I'm not sure what good this is supposed to do, especially since you don't think Genjutsu is needed. Jiraiya's clone in Base and a toad are easily manhandled and then Jiraiya, who's rendered unable to do anything to do the summoning process gets shanked, or he stops his summoning process and then shanks him.

No, that's not how Katon works in the manga. Flame is not something which keeps burning unless that's how the technique works due to outside reasons. Itachi's Katon vs Sasuke gave burns but it didn't keep burning, Sasuke's Katon vs Orochimaru only gave burns, Sasuke's Katon Dragon on Itachi's arm only gave burns. It's rather obvious that having something to keep burning doesn't mean it will keep burning. Flames are not kept alive by Manda, the oil is what kept them alive for quite some time. The flame is alive because the oil is on the Raikage and the flame is burning on it, and Bunta can just keep throwing out more and more oil if he wills. Then there's the fact that Bunta also has Water, and guess what happens when you pour Water into grease fire? A massive inferno. And it's not supposed to burn him until he can no longer fight, it's supposed to burn him to the point where he can't make it in time to stop Jiraiya's SM. He isn't pain resistant like his dad, or at least we don't know if he is, so he's not going to be fighting while set ablaze.

 

[Transcendence]

Jiraiya doesn't have much of a chance if he starts in base. He doesn't have anything to really stop the Raikage from pressuring him and stopping the SM into Frog Song ritual (not the actual combo but they're intertwined once he gets in SM). If Jiraiya starts in SM then I'd be hard pressed to say he wins. Stronger techniques to hold the Raikage back and then Frog Song one shots.

 

[KidGamer65]

He'd already be far under ground level.

Why? :lol. Comparing what happened with a giant boss summon doesn't work since the boss summon is far heavier than the Raikage. Not to mention he used Yomi Numa (but not as wide) against Human Path and he wasn't even close to being completely submerged. Black Panther takes a handsign and then the lighting starts to form around his body in pretty much an instant. Unless Yomi Numa can sink him before he can make a hand sign then there's pretty much no way that Yomi Numa takes him down.

v1 Bee said his fastest attack was only ever dodged by his brother prior to Sasuke dodging it. We don't know if v1 Ay did that or v2 Ay. I already know v2 Ay runs circles around v1 Bee. And I am not saying he's using a small scale Yomi Numa, I'm saying he's using a large scale on like the one used on Manda. That means the 20 meters between him and Raikage is pretty much a swamp the entire distance. Not only does he have to get out by literally climbing out after he negates all the Swamp above him with BL (not sure how this works) but he'd also have to negate the swamp in front of him until the 20 meter distance to Jiraiya. Then there's the fact that he'd have to cover that distance while being lit on fire with Oil+Katon.

Then you have a point with the B thing. As for the rest:

-Lightning spreads throughout Doton and breaks it apart kind of, so it'd do something similar to the swamp, allowing him to get out.
-Not sure why he'd have to negate the entire swamp when he could just jump from where he is currently located and then get away from the swamp altogether.
-I'll address the on fire thing below.

Well we can't really say how IC Jiraiya fights in this situation. Against Orochimaru he started with summon+Yomi Numa, against Itachi/Kisame he also manipulated the location with toad stomach. So we can't really say he's unlikely to start off a fight by changing the location of the area, and Yomi Numa is one way of doing so.

Fair point.

No, that's not how Katon works in the manga. Flame is not something which keeps burning unless that's how the technique works due to outside reasons. Itachi's Katon vs Sasuke gave burns but it didn't keep burning, Sasuke's Katon vs Orochimaru only gave burns, Sasuke's Katon Dragon on Itachi's arm only gave burns. It's rather obvious that having something to keep burning doesn't mean it will keep burning. Flames are not kept alive by Manda, the oil is what kept them alive for quite some time. The flame is alive because the oil is on the Raikage and the flame is burning on it, and Bunta can just keep throwing out more and more oil if he wills. Then there's the fact that Bunta also has Water, and guess what happens when you pour Water into grease fire? A massive inferno. And it's not supposed to burn him until he can no longer fight, it's supposed to burn him to the point where he can't make it in time to stop Jiraiya's SM. He isn't pain resistant like his dad, or at least we don't know if he is, so he's not going to be fighting while set ablaze.

Uh, wrong. Katon has shown to light things on fire multiple times in this Manga. Most prominently when Itachi lights his Shuriken on fire with Katon. Kakuzu also lit some

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on fire with his Katon. Didn't Madara partially light Hashirama's forest on fire too? Yes, he did. It works just like normal flame does.

Oil is only used as the fuel for the fire. Fire burns the oil and gets stronger just how it'd burn any other type of fuel it would use to burn brighter, bigger and hotter. Sure, Bunta can throw oil if he wants, but by the time Bunta has already finished using Toad Oil Flame Bullet, Raikage will be out of the swamp, back on solid ground, and capable of easily dodging anything else Bunta decides to throw at him. And I'm not sure why Bunta would attempt to throw water in that fire when all he'd do is make it explode, catching him in the process. Only thing is, he dies while the Raikage lives.

And that flame isn't going to burn forever even if you were right about it only burning Manda because of the oil.

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We get a zoomed out view of the battlefield and there is no sign of the flame despite it only happening several dozen meters away from Bunta's location. Raikage easily resists and then shanks Jiraiya. Not sure why you are talking about pain tolerance here when he shouldn't feel pain if the attack is too weak to hurt him. Pain is felt when you take damage to some part of the body. If the flame can't damage him, then he takes no pain. Not to mention he has chakra armor on.

Not to mention IMO it's ridiculous to assume that the more durable father can't resist something that his less durable son should be able to resist. But it matters not.

 

[Sasori]

3rd Raikage takes this.