Jiraiya one shotted two different Akatsuki members - stop underrating

[Prince Charles]

Form and shape are included in physical properties. You are reading out context.

Here is the translated section for Yata Mirror's description: "Yata no Kagami (Mirror of Yata) - An incorporeal shield. It possesses all the chakra qualities (elements) and is able to render any attack vain by changing its own quality accordingly." Right before it states that the shield can change its onw qualities it talks about chakra. That means it can change its chakra qualities (elemental composition) to deflect all attacks. Read the entire sentence and don't leave things out for the sake of your argument.

im simply going by the DB

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[Unbiased]

one question

do you consider form/shape a property?

Do you consider assumptions as facts? Because you seem to be arguing saying your assumption is fact.

 

[Unbiased]

im simply going by the DB

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It alters its attributes based on the attack. Interesting note is that it only stays in front of itachi. Meaning 360 degree attacks work, and overhead attacks work.

 

[Prince Charles]

It alters its attributes based on the attack. Interesting note is that it only stays in front of itachi. Meaning 360 degree attacks work, and overhead attacks work.

can we just agree to disagree so i can play some mw3?

 

[Mugen Tsukyomi]

Itachi never fought against Jiraiya with any intent to defeat/injure/let alone kill. Remember that Itachi was loyal to the leaf till the very end so he would never injure one of the hokage candidates.

 

[kral]

Jman is underhyped cuz the only ninja that could truly beat him no difficulty is tsunade! Lifts shirt says come here n kills him. LOL! other then that he can go toe to toe with the best of em imo

 

[Dubbuoo]

be quiet your a idiot and your arguments are weak.

someone made a thread about "Top 5 debaters" and Madara04 was at the top of the list by the same guy who made the thread...
how nice and BS it is isn't...
must have been Madara04's alt acc

 

[Mishima]

I'd like to see you explain how Jiraiya will get past Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo. When Itachi said they would end up killing each other,that was only a mistranslation.
Itachi>Jiraiya

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

im simply going by the DB

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Post the page where it talks about its chakra capabilities.

Either way, if the Mirror could change shape then Itachi would have had it cover his entire Susanoo like armor. It is called the Yata mirror for a reason. It looks like a round mirror and it deflects all attacks. You are reading too far into the DB. Remember the DB speaks of things in a legend type of way. Like how Ama burns as hot as the sun... If it did then a small portion of the flame would destroy large areas around it due to intense heat.

 

[l3m0npl3dg3]

He is strong as hell

 

[Unbiased]

Post the page where it talks about its chakra capabilities.

Either way, if the Mirror could change shape then Itachi would have had it cover his entire Susanoo like armor. It is called the Yata mirror for a reason. It looks like a round mirror and it deflects all attacks. You are reading too far into the DB. Remember the DB speaks of things in a legend type of way. Like how Ama burns as hot as the sun... If it did then a small portion of the flame would destroy large areas around it due to intense heat.

That's true, its like a nuclear bomb if its as hot as the sun.

 

[Jade Uchiha]

is everyone forgeting about Jmans toad friends, Ma and PA? they wuld get him out of genjutsu....

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

Don't go by hype, look at both of the character's arsenal Itachi would stomp jiraiya

 

[siyo]

i was referring to the fact that even tho orochimaru had a 5 in genjutsu he still managed to get pwned by one~ thats me saying the databook numbers dont always apply in certain situation im not saying i dont agree with them im saying they dont always apply.

itachi getting caught by kureni means nothing considering the fact he got out of it with low diff unlike orochimaru

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itachi said even with back up the outcome probably would still be the same ? i believe? that means even with the other akatsuki members they may not even make a difference? do you agree with itachi's words?

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even kisame was amazed by why itachi left

why would itachi feel a threat when kisame is also by his side?
like i said itachi wanted to protect the leaf why would he want to kill off a sannin that would make him a hypocrite, the same reason why he did kill kakashi:sy:

Spoiler

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trying? he didnt even try he put his hand on his sword handle thats it.

how do we know he was being serious? he could of been scaring naruto a little bit and shaking him up.

if he didnt cooperate he's cover would of most likely been blown or they would of killed him.IF he didnt do what they said what if they went after the leaf?



almost broke it? rofl no he didnt, itachi said he grew but he's still weak GTFO

[

i didnt conviently leave out nothing, ok? kisame doesnt even know his true identity your point noob?

my point in posting that scan was to say if he did know his secretes like if jirayia knew pain secretes at first itachi would of owned tobi most likely,tobi even saids he would be dead right now think before you reply to me noob.

the rest of the stuff you said isnt worth replying back to.

Oh, the irony. You are calling people noobs when you can’t even probably quote a post or, more importantly, refute any arguments. You are supposed to bring scans disproving said arguments, not baseless assumptions. What you are doing is not debating; you’re mindlessly continuing spewing nonsense and repeating false stuff which had already been disproven hoping that your counterpart(s) will get tired of it and leave, voluntarily, and then you will feel that you won the exchange because you posted last- which would also explain why you, said it yourself, “debated” here for hours.

Jiraiya and Itachi share the same databook score, which means they’re even when it comes to ninja abilities. This is canon nothing you say will change that. Itachi also stated that the best he could do is draw, which is also canon. Obviously, Itachi felt Jiraiya was threat because he thought he could lose, even with Kisame. Jiraiya could give Itachi and Kisma a competitive fight,this sis not rocket science. That much should be obvious and I doubt you are Itachi so any excuses from you can’t be deemed valid, since the facts will stay the same, and I doubt Kishi will re-visit this time in Naruto.

Orochimaro was not “pwned” by any genjutsu he resisted the jutsu and successfully moved his arms, something the technique prevents you from doing, which then resulted in Itachi cutting of his hand before Orochimaro got free ( all this from close range). These are facts, so I don’t know why you are running around like Orochimaro was helpless- on the contrary, he later broke the same jutsu with ease. This got nothing to do with the databook and as I said, being an expert genjutsu user doesn’t mean that you can’t be surprised thus get caught.

Kisame, the guy who had tailed beast chakra and almost captured Killer B, admitted inferiority. He had no chance against Jiraiya and even doubted if Itachi could stand up to him. It is not just Itachi who claimed it both of them did which makes the claim even stronger. Kisame being surprised with the retreat won’t change that.

Also, did you just claim that Kisame didn’t raise his word and he just wanted to scare Naruto? Be careful, we don’t want you to hurt you limbs with all that reaching.

Kisame wanted to cut off Naruto’s legs so they could carry around his weight much easier. In fact, if it weren’t for Naruto’s savior, well, look for yourself:

Spoiler

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You should seriously stop. Not only did Itachi allow his partner to do this, he also had no trouble killing off the jounins or taking Naruto.
What happened to Itachi not having large chakra reserves? Did you change your mind or could you not back up your bold statement. Maybe you even checked the databook as I suggested? Either way… good for you.

I asked you for evidence, not your personal opinion regarding people’s main motives. You couldn’t bring it and resorted to petty name-calling plus you showed an inability to refute anything. Anyway, my last post to you.

 

[lukasenko]

I believe that the underrated character is actually kakashi's father. Minato has rated him as a true genios. His title of Konoha's White Fang made the three legendary sannins look nothing in front of him. Jiraiya is fine. I believe that most of naruto fans acknowledge him as a very strong character, living up to his stories. I believe that its just a small group against him making fuzz.

Edit: if jiraiya would have known the secret behind pain's bodies he would have probably won the match...

 

[Prince Charles]

Oh, the irony. You are calling people noobs when you can’t even probably quote a post or, more importantly, refute any arguments. You are supposed to bring scans disproving said arguments, not baseless assumptions. What you are doing is not debating; you’re mindlessly continuing spewing nonsense and repeating false stuff which had already been disproven hoping that your counterpart(s) will get tired of it and leave, voluntarily, and then you will feel that you won the exchange because you posted last- which would also explain why you, said it yourself, “debated” here for hours.

Jiraiya and Itachi share the same databook score, which means they’re even when it comes to ninja abilities. This is canon nothing you say will change that. Itachi also stated that the best he could do is draw, which is also canon. Obviously, Itachi felt Jiraiya was threat because he thought he could lose, even with Kisame. Jiraiya could give Itachi and Kisma a competitive fight,this sis not rocket science. That much should be obvious and I doubt you are Itachi so any excuses from you can’t be deemed valid, since the facts will stay the same, and I doubt Kishi will re-visit this time in Naruto.

Orochimaro was not “pwned” by any genjutsu he resisted the jutsu and successfully moved his arms, something the technique prevents you from doing, which then resulted in Itachi cutting of his hand before Orochimaro got free ( all this from close range). These are facts, so I don’t know why you are running around like Orochimaro was helpless- on the contrary, he later broke the same jutsu with ease. This got nothing to do with the databook and as I said, being an expert genjutsu user doesn’t mean that you can’t be surprised thus get caught.

Kisame, the guy who had tailed beast chakra and almost captured Killer B, admitted inferiority. He had no chance against Jiraiya and even doubted if Itachi could stand up to him. It is not just Itachi who claimed it both of them did which makes the claim even stronger. Kisame being surprised with the retreat won’t change that.

Also, did you just claim that Kisame didn’t raise his word and he just wanted to scare Naruto? Be careful, we don’t want you to hurt you limbs with all that reaching.

Kisame wanted to cut off Naruto’s legs so they could carry around his weight much easier. In fact, if it weren’t for Naruto’s savior, well, look for yourself:

Spoiler

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You should seriously stop. Not only did Itachi allow his partner to do this, he also had no trouble killing off the jounins or taking Naruto.
What happened to Itachi not having large chakra reserves? Did you change your mind or could you not back up your bold statement. Maybe you even checked the databook as I suggested? Either way… good for you.

I asked you for evidence, not your personal opinion regarding people’s main motives. You couldn’t bring it and resorted to petty name-calling plus you showed an inability to refute anything. Anyway, my last post to you.

since when do databook scores determine a battle? :sy:

just because databook scroes say their equal doesnt mean they are.

 

[siyo]

I'm going to end this dum thread.

First there was a major major mistranslation which is fanbase blindly believe without question. As for the mistranslations here you go. Its a fact it was a mistranlation. A noteable nb user who speaks fluent japanese and english madea thread about it;

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Major, major, MAJOR mistake in chapter 144 regarding Itachi's quote about Jiraiya;

Spoiler

The above translation is way off.

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Kisame - You could somehow win, but I couldn't stand up to such an opponent for more than a couple of minutes... It's on a completely different level.
Itachi - Ah... Either (we) both (he says both/two, meaning him and Kisame) would die, or it would be a draw... The result wouldn't change even if we increased our numbers.
Kisame - It was good that we found him at the ramen shop... And he has one of the Legendary Sannin as a lucky charm. That guy (Jiraiya) might be a fair match for the strongest Uchiha from Konoha and the Mist's strongest swordsman.
Itachi - Hmm, even so... It's said that every strong man has a weakness...

Kisame and Itachi were talking about the Kyuubi, not Jiraiya. Kisame brings the topic of Jiraiya up later on in the conversation and Itachi acknowledges that he's strong, but he says that he has a weakness. *girls girls girls*

It seems as if Kisame was babbling on about taking the Kyuubi on, that he couldn't do it more than a couple of minutes but Itachi would have a chance. Itachi states that they both wouldn't stand a chance of winning, even if they increased their numbers. Kisame states that it was lucky to find Naruto in the ramen shop but Jiraiya would pose a problem and Itachi just says; girls girls girls.

Peins hype-

Spoiler

I think this is the page that has got everyone overhyped about his abilities.

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Seriously? xd Jiraya beating Pein. Jiraya had difficulty before sage mode just dealing with the Animal Paths. The environment also was made up of hiding places to allow him to enter sage mode.

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If Pein has started with all 6 or just the DEVA PATH Jiraya would have not lasted 5 minutes.

They way I interpret this page was that if Jiraya knew our secret maybe he would have got his ass out of here and looked for the real Nagato.

What exactly are you ending? :noc: You’re linking to a mistranslation, sorry, the general consensus amongst credible translators is the same. Nobody mentioned anything about “It” and they are discussing Jiraiya not the Kyuubi.

The official VIZ translation :

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The main guys whom translated the databooks/fanbooks and work for Naru wiki :

ShounenSuki's Translation:

Kisame:
「アナタならどうにかこうにかやれる相手でも私じゃあ 分かりませんよ…」
「次元が違う」
"You might be able to somehow defeat him, but me, well I don't know..."
"Our levels are too far apart"

Itachi:
「ああ…やり合えは二人共殺されるか良くて相打ちというところ」
「…たとえ人数を増やしたとしても変わらないだろう」
"Yeah... If we fought him, we might both be killed. If it goes well, we might take him with us."
"Even if the number of people were to increase, this probably wouldn't change"

Kisame
「ラーメン屋で　やっと見付けたはいいが…お守りが　あの゛伝説の三忍゛とは」
「彼が相手では゛木ノ葉のうちは一族゛も゛霧の忍刀七人衆゛の名もかすんでしまう」
"It was good we finally found them by the ramen store, but... his guardian is of those 'Legendary Three Ninja' "
"He, as an opponent, makes 'Konoha's Uchiha clan' and the 'Seven Shinobi Swordmen of the Mist' seem like nothing."

Itachi:
「ああ…しかし……」
「どんな強者にも弱点というのがあるものだ……」
"Yes... However......"
"No matter how strong a person is, he is bound to have a weakness..."

From another one named Gottheim:

I should have included the proof in my post the first time around. After all, it's not like people have to take my word for it.

From 2chan.
Quote:
353: キサメ｢ジライヤはイタチさんならどうにかこうにかやり合える相手でも私では次元が違う｣Ki same: You should be able to do something about Jiraiya, Itachi-san.......
イタチ｢あぁ、ジライヤとやり合えば二人とも殺されるかよくて相打ちだ｣ If we fight Jiraiya we might both get killed......
Quote:
たしかにそう言っているけど戦いの描写みるとイタチとは同等くらいじゃないか？
ランク分けるほどの差ではない気がする
Yes, Itachi did say that. But when you actually see them fight, they look about equal don't they? It's not like there's such a huge gap in ability between them.
From Yahoo Japan's Q&A board (whatever those things are called).
Quote:
NARUTOの矛盾です。
まず、はじめに１６巻のNo.144でイタチと鬼鮫が「やり合えば二人とも殺される」「うちは一族も霧の忍 刀七人衆の名もかすんでしまう」などと自来也の ことをかなり強いと言ってます。Inconsistency in Naruto.
First, in volume 16 ch.144 Itachi and Kisame portray Jiraiya as someone fairly strong, saying "If we fight him, we'll both get killed" and "The Uchiha clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi Swordsmen's names pale in comparison".
He then goes on about how this creates an inconsistency with the fact that Itachi was portrayed as far stronger than Orochimaru, who is himself superior to Jiraiya.

Someone's musings about power levels in Naruto.
Quote:
ナルトのお守りが自来也だと知ると「やり合えば二人とも殺されるか良くて相打ちというところ、たとえ人数を 増やしたとしても変わらないだろう」と鬼鮫に漏らしており、
Upon learning that Naruto's caretaker is Jiraiya, [Itachi] tells Kisame that "If we fight him, we might both get killed. We'll manage a draw at best. But even if we bring in more people, it might not make that much of a difference."

Moar 2chan.
Quote:
39: イタチも鬼鮫に、ジライヤとやりあえば「二人とも殺されるか、良くて相打ち」って言ってるしね 。
Itachi tells Kisame that "if they fight Jiraiya they might both get killed, or pull off a draw at best."

キサメ「あなた（イタチ）ならどうにかこうにかやりあえる相手でも私なら分かります。次元が違う」Kisa me: "You (Itachi) should be able to handle him, but I don't know how I'd fare. We aren't in the same league."

イタチ「ああ、（ジライヤと）やり合えば二人とも殺されるかよくて相打ちだ」
Itachi: "Yeah. If we tangle with (Jiraiya) we may both get killed, or manage a draw if all goes well."
Is that proof enough or need I continue?

btw, her personal opinion won't change the quote about Pain which is the same.

 

[The Western Wheel]

Jiraiya one shotted both Konan and Kisame. You know, the same Konan who was able to give Tobi trouble. And remember, Kisame was a Jinchuriki hunter. He also defeated three Paths of Pein without getting any injuries or coming close to running low on chakra.

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We were even told the guy could defeat Pein and Itachi. It was said that people like Kisame were not even capable of making a difference against him, while Konan was sent home after Pein cleaned the oil off of her restoring her.

And some think Itachi is a level above him. Funny

I'm not saying Jiraiya is better than Itachi or vice versa, just that they are on the same level.

Itachi's Genjutsu equals more or less sage mode Jiraya(his Genjutsu maybe stronger, Itachi being the specialist, not falling for it.)

Hand to hand: equal

Susannoo equals Toad summoning

Fire release more or less equals oil release

Itachi's only chances: amaterasu or his weapons

Jiraya's chances: something we might not have seen, his vast range of jutsu's, or a plain old rasengan.

I think he is a bit overrated because of his personality. Do keep in mind he indeed showed a lot of excellent skills, jutsu-wise, but as well as a teacher-wise. He understood a lot. He was an intelligent man.

He died a noble death when a former student gang-raped him, with the six paths of the rinnegan. And they knew their opponent.

A six paths of the Rinnegan user, with forehand knowledge would rape Itachi as well(Nagato, f..e.)

P.s: Itachi is by far my favorite character. He is almost omniscient, yet does not always make the best choices.

 

[Strict]

People may don't understand the difference of part 1 and 2. The level on which Kishimoto kept the Manga in terms of power was different in part 1, also the hype Kishimoto gave to certain characters. While Hiruzen was the god of all Shinobis who beat the First and Second Hokage in his old age, Hashiramas great power was only confirmed in part 2. The same goes for Jiraiya and Itachi, the focus was on Jiraiya who was a main character then and the master of Naruto, while Itachi was just a guy who massacred his clan and was in a organization nobody knows about. Do you realize somewhat? In part two not only the level in terms of power increased, the characters which were pretty unknown in part 1, became not only more hype but more feats. So Itachi wasn't just a killer in an unknown organization, he was a good Shinobi with one of the best ideals and one of the greatest powers.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Tell me how he'll get past Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susano'o and them come back to me. A sick, blind Itachi could DESTROY him. Back then, Jiraiya was just being hyped up because of his status. Notice how Itachi and Kisame kept on saying "sannin, sannin". They were afraid of his hype, not him. When Itachi was running away from the toad mouth trap he could have turned around and one shotted him, but he never. So shhh. Itachi > Jiraiya.​

Yeah and Itachi hyped up Tsukuyomi to be unbeatable, when it's really not. It's a great technique, but Sasuke was able to break it by dramatically changing his chakra levels.

Amaterasu has yet to kill anybody, so we can underhype it all we want.

Itachi can't sustain Susano'o. Jiraiya in Sage Mode basically has infinite energy.

His hype and him are basically the same thing as they are talking of the same person. It's kind of pointless to argue this when your avatar is Itachi...