Jiraiya didn't have to die..

[blackstar9]

He could have escaped . But went out like a G . Pein admitted with full info it could have been different

 

[Equalist]

Yes because shadow clones is the one weakness of Pain. Given all the shinobi and monsters he's killed THIS, shadow clones are beyond his abilities. I know not what is more depressing, the fact that OP thinks that's are there is to Naruto or that he actually spent hours searching for Narutovational posters and found one he had to use in a forum.

 

[Mitarashi]

Yes because shadow clones is the one weakness of Pain. Given all the shinobi and monsters he's killed THIS, shadow clones are beyond his abilities. I know not what is more depressing, the fact that OP thinks that's are there is to Naruto or that he actually spent hours searching for Narutovational posters and found one he had to use in a forum.

I don't know what's more depressing, That you decided to post on here before you read what I said or that you're an Idiot.

Shadow clone would've gone out there and learnt what Jiraiya died learning.
The shadow clone would've gone 'Poof' and Jiraiya would've learnt all the knowlage from his shadow clone, as explained when Naruto is learning Chakra transformation.

Does that penetrate your skull?

 

[Equalist]

I don't know what's more depressing, That you decided to post on here before you read what I said or that you're an Idiot.

Shadow clone would've gone out there and learnt what Jiraiya died learning.
The shadow clone would've gone 'Poof' and Jiraiya would've learnt all the knowlage from his shadow clone, as explained when Naruto is learning Chakra transformation.

Does that penetrate your skull?

I can't understand you. Have you tried speaking English?

 

[Strawberry]

he could ahve goten away but he was surprised as he knew the people so he decided to get one last look... gg jiraiya

 

[Mitarashi]

Are you kidding right now.

Are you 9?

 

[RinneBlitz]

Without Jiraiya Naruto would've never defeated Nagato. I mean, Jiraiya found out any of the Six Paths of Pain's abilities and he shared the information with Konoha using Fukasaku, so it was much more easy for Naruto to defeat Nagato. If he had no intel about Pain's abilities, he would've captured him easily, so Jiraiya's sacrifice was necessary, sadly or not. :'(

 

[Mitarashi]

Without Jiraiya Naruto would've never defeated Nagato. I mean, Jiraiya found out any of the Six Paths of Pain's abilities and he shared the information with Konoha using Fukasaku, so it was much more easy for Naruto to defeat Nagato. If he had no intel about Pain's abilities, he would've captured him easily, so Jiraiya's sacrifice was necessary, sadly or not. :'(

Why don't people READ WHAT I TYPE.

Picture this.

He's inside the belly of the frog, hiding, at this point he can escape or go out and sacrifice his life to gain intel.
NOW, This is what I"ve SAID.

Shadow clone jutsu.
Sends out a shadow clone, Pein talks to him for a minute, Jiraiya learns what he'd have learnt if he'd gone out himself and then they stab the clone.
POOF, clone disperses and Jiraiya gains the knowlage that the shadow clone did, SO HE NOW KNOWS ALL ABOUT PEIN.
he then escapes un-noticed and reports back to the hidden leaf.

 

[Equalist]

Are you kidding right now.

Are you 9?

I do not kid and I would not disrespect you as you have disrespected me. I literally couldn't understand what you wrote. It was not English. Your clauses, if there were even clauses to be found, had no connection to anything. I'm not the only person on this forum who doesn't understand you. Case in point.

Why don't people READ WHAT I TYPE.

You appear to be upset that people don't read what you type, hence the reason you put it in ALL CAPS so someone would notice you. I do notice your efforts but again, I do not understand much of what you post and apparently I'm not the only one. People do not read what you type because they can't understand you. Further this:

Picture this.

He's inside the belly of the frog, hiding, at this point he can escape or go out and sacrifice his life to gain intel.
NOW, This is what I"ve SAID.

Shadow clone jutsu.
Sends out a shadow clone, Pein talks to him for a minute, Jiraiya learns what he'd have learnt if he'd gone out himself and then they stab the clone.
POOF, clone disperses and Jiraiya gains the knowlage that the shadow clone did, SO HE NOW KNOWS ALL ABOUT PEIN.
he then escapes un-noticed and reports back to the hidden leaf.

What? What are you talking about? It's frustrating for you to post things that people ignore. But people ignore you because it's frustrating for them to read a post that doesn't make any sense. I'm not trolling you because I could just take apart your arguments piece by piece. The issue however is that I don't understand anything you're saying. It is not my intent, at least in this case to tear you down, but I simply do not understand you nor does anyone else.

 

[Mitarashi]

I do not kid and I would not disrespect you as you have disrespected me. I literally couldn't understand what you wrote. It was not English. Your clauses, if there were even clauses to be found, had no connection to anything. I'm not the only person on this forum who doesn't understand you. Case in point.





You appear to be upset that people don't read what you type, hence the reason you put it in ALL CAPS so someone would notice you. I do notice your efforts but again, I do not understand much of what you post and apparently I'm not the only one. People do not read what you type because they can't understand you. Further this:






What? What are you talking about? It's frustrating for you to post things that people ignore. But people ignore you because it's frustrating for them to read a post that doesn't make any sense. I'm not trolling you because I could just take apart your arguments piece by piece. The issue however is that I don't understand anything you're saying. It is not my intent, at least in this case to tear you down, but I simply do not understand you nor does anyone else.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or just an imbecile.

Are you awear that SHADOW CLONES, when destroyed, relay all knowlage to the original person?

 

[Equalist]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or just an imbecile.

I've reported you for flaming. As I've already stated I was not trolling and as I have not disrespected you, do not disrespect me. Your posts do not make any sense. I explained to you my issues therein and rather than try to work with me you make with the insults. Yet I'm the 9 year-old.

Are you awear that SHADOW CLONES, when destroyed, relay all knowlage to the original person?

Are you aware that shadow clones relay all experience to the original person upon being destroyed? Yes, yes I am aware of this. How would this prevent Jiraiya from being a killed by Pain? Actually don't answer that. You cannot be trust with communicating your thoughts so please allow me.

Your thoughts - once made intelligible - is that Pain can be defeated if his opponent has enough shadow clones to counter his abilities.

My thoughts - Pain can only be defeated under a very, very finite set of stipulations. Clones, though part of these stipulations is not the determining factor. Even if Jiraiya had full intel on Pain's abilities he wouldn't have been able to defeat him. While Pain stated that they - the Six Paths would never have won - we all know that Nagato's power over life and death is basically hax. He can kill anyone or resurrect anyone. It's not an ability you can counter.

With regards to Pain: he fought the entire village, Konoha had full intel on his abilities, Naruto entered the battle fresh, and yet Pain still defeated them all. It was only due to Minato's divine intervention that Pain was finally defeated. Yet Nagato still lived and by the time Naruto made it to him he was in no condition to battle both Nagato and Konan despite his boasts.

This is not an opponent Jiraiya could defeat under any circumstances. Jiraiya and even Tsunade knew that he was not going to return from Amegakure. And once Jiraiya learned that Pain killed Honzo by himself, he immediately began preparations for the worst case scenario. End of discussion.

 

[Honord Sage]

Plot Jiraiya in Kishi's eyes had to die so that Naruto would have a reason to revenge His Master by becoming a Sage like Jiraiya and then surpassing Him by becoming a perfect Sage.

 

[Mitarashi]

I've reported you for flaming. As I've already stated I was not trolling and as I have not disrespected you, do not disrespect me. Your posts do not make any sense. I explained to you my issues therein and rather than try to work with me you make with the insults. Yet I'm the 9 year-old.



Are you aware that shadow clones relay all experience to the original person upon being destroyed? Yes, yes I am aware of this. How would this prevent Jiraiya from being a killed by Pain?

I'm sorry If I made you feel that way.

Let's say for example, when Jiraiya was able to escape from pein, he instead created a shadow clone to go out and inspect pain.

Saving his life and completing the mission.

 

[Equalist]

Let's say for example, when Jiraiya was able to escape from pein, he instead created a shadow clone to go out and inspect pain.

Saving his life and completing the mission.

I understand "this argument." There are few things to consider though.

1) Pain's field of vision would have made it difficult for Jiraiya to slip away even with a clone running interference.

2) In Jiraiya's state, would he have been able to escape even with a clone in play?

3) If Pain suspected for even an instant that Jiraiya was using a clone he would have summoned the rain and sensed the location of the real Jiraiya. It would have taken Jiraiya hours to escape from Ame in his condition. He would have been found.

 

[Mitarashi]

I understand "this argument." There are few things to consider though.

1) Pain's field of vision would have made it difficult for Jiraiya to slip away even with a clone running interference.

2) In Jiraiya's state, would he have been able to escape even with a clone in play?

3) If Pain suspected for even an instant that Jiraiya was using a clone he would have summoned the rain and sensed the location of the real Jiraiya. It would have taken Jiraiya hours to escape from Ame in his condition. He would have been found.

He was inside the belly of a small toad/Frog at the time, His condition wouldn't have affected his travel speed.
He probably could've been Reverse summoned to Mt myoboku.
The Shadow clones only out there to gain intel, not stall for time.

 

[Equalist]

He was inside the belly of a small toad/Frog at the time, His condition wouldn't have affected his travel speed.

Can this be used as a mode of transportation? In this case I'm not arguing against you as I simply don't know if the jutsu can be used for that purpose. If you can prove it can be used as a MoT then you will have clinched this discussion.

He probably could've been Reverse summoned to Mt myoboku.

I thought a clone had to be present at Mt. Myobokuzan. Had he placed a clone there prior you're certainly correct. However he didn't so that option is off the table. We can't speculate what Jiraiya would or could have done to survive based on preparations he didn't make prior to going to Amegakure.

The Shadow clones only out there to gain intel, not stall for time.

At this juncture my issue would be whether or not he would have had enough chakra to sustain his odd frog concealment stomach jutsu and a shadow clone. It might have been a case of one or the other.

 

[Mitarashi]

Can this be used as a mode of transportation? In this case I'm not arguing against you as I simply don't know if the jutsu can be used for that purpose. If you can prove it can be used as a MoT then you will have clinched this discussion.




I thought a clone had to be present at Mt. Myobokuzan. Had he placed a clone there prior you're certainly correct. However he didn't so that option is off the table. We can't speculate what Jiraiya would or could have done to survive based on preparations he didn't make prior to going to Amegakure.





At this juncture my issue would be whether or not he would have had enough chakra to sustain his odd frog concealment stomach jutsu and a shadow clone. It might have been a case of one or the other.

Well, he managed to transport that rain shinobi inside a frog, so it is a MoT.

Naruto was first Reverse summoned to mt myoboku without ever seeing the place, I'm sure jiraiya could've done it.

As for the last argument, I'd say he had enough energy for a shadow clone, as he said he'd 'Probably die' if he went out, meaning he had ATLEAST a bit of chakra left.

 

[FourthLegacy]

He had to, in order for Narutos character to develop

If he hadn't Naruto wouldn't have bothered with Sage Mode.

 

[Mitarashi]

He had to, in order for Narutos character to develop

If he hadn't Naruto wouldn't have bothered with Sage Mode.

Are you kidding? If naruto heard about a technique that made him ALOT faster, ALOT stronger and able to use his new futon: rasenshuriken. he'd jump at the chance.

 

[Equalist]

Well, he managed to transport that rain shinobi inside a frog, so it is a MoT.

Naruto was first Reverse summoned to mt myoboku without ever seeing the place, I'm sure jiraiya could've done it.

As for the last argument, I'd say he had enough energy for a shadow clone, as he said he'd 'Probably die' if he went out, meaning he had ATLEAST a bit of chakra left.

Well then sir you have clinched this debate. Good job and I mean that with zero sarcasm.

He had to, in order for Narutos character to develop

If he hadn't Naruto wouldn't have bothered with Sage Mode.

Yeah but if he escaped Naruto and Jiraiya could have fought Pain together and Konoha's body count would have been nil.