An odd matchup that I'd normally think was a stomp in Zabuza's favor, but Dr Proof proved me wrong (as of now). Any match with the sound 5 interests me though and I'd like to see how this turns out, good luck gentlemen.
The majority of what you've used to counter is misconception/misunderstanding. Also, I will not counter the beginning portion regarding: Zabuza's basic capabilities (handseal speed, bodyflicker speed, etc.) as they aren't important for this battles overall conclusion. One more thing: The sections may not be in order, so I apologize beforehand as I chose the most important to counter first.
PS. Things I didn't counter from your post mean that they've become null due to their initial premise (action required before such & such happens/happened).
Depth
3- The river is not concealed. There’s no proof of how deep the river is, but if you throw a rock to the water, the rock goes to the bottom and water emerges. The only thing Jirobo would accomplish would be to raise the water level. The same quantity of water would still be there. Unless you’re suggesting Jirobo would cut an exact piece of rock that works like a plug. The rock would never be big enough.
Just going to educate you real quick in Geography. Now you say that if Jirōbō lifts the entire right portion of VoTE, that it won't plug the river's entirety. Well my man, you are unfortunately incorrect. Here's why:
The average river is 3ft in depth - The deepest river is 720ft in depth.
The average waterfall is 3,211ft in height - The tallest waterfall is 3,230ft in height.
Now if the
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of VoTE is not only taller than the waterfall, but wider as well, the concealing of said
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will be imminent;
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I won't even mention length, due to how broken Jirōbō would be if I per say said: Jirōbō simply throws every surrounding @ Zabuza. This would completely decimate Zabuza's chances of winning, but I won't do that because see I have morality, and want you to believe Zabuza actually has a chance. Honestly, the mist actually serves as an advantage to Jirōbō instead of Zabuza. Which is sad in its own right.
Anyhow, this section has re-countered:
The River's concealment.
#1
Here’s proof of Zabuza making a lot of clones and of Zabuza hearing form under the ground.
Your first misconception was that Zabuza could hear movement underground - That is terribly, horrendously
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:
Zabuza heard Kakashi's dogs
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because: The dogs chose to reveal themselves (they were resurfacing) - Not only that, Zabuza was horrendously confused as to what initially was going on. He simply sat there like a blind-moron.
Moguragakure no Jutsu is SILENT.
Moguragakure no Jutsu literally turns the ground into really soft sand enabling its users to achieve feats such as
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→
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. Kakashi easily evaded a large-scale katon, whilst it was seconds away from scorching him however, that isn't all. The technique was even quick enough in application speed to fool Itachi - A sharingan user - Talk of Zabuza even anticipating such a technique is ridiculous.
Zabuza can hear pretty well even if the sounds come from under ground. He wouldn’t just sit there.
1-Zabuza makes the mist
2-Jirobo goes underground
3 A- Zabuza makes several clones, Jirobo attacks one of the clones, Zabuza pinpoints Jirobo’s location and finishes him.
3 B- Zabuza jumps to the water. Jirobo’s hiding like a mole is turned useless. Once he comes up again he’s still facing an opponent he can’t track, see or keep up with his speed.
Another ridiculous claim you've made is that you actually believe Zabuza could/would fool Jirōbō with Mizu Bunshin. You're honestly severely underestimating him, as well Moguragakure no Jutsu's workings. While the user is submerged underground they can sense anything
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the surface - Notice how Tobi instantly faced Deidara? He knew his positioning from the start - Even while airborne. Back to the consensus:
Jirōbō
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himself before using Moguragakure no Jutsu. Moguragakure takes less than a second to apply, leaving Zabuza ignorant to the situation (due to unreliable information on Jirōbō's position). Zabuza also CANNOT see in the mist - He tracks his opponents by sound, but Jirōbō is underground meaning: no sound.
From your reasoning, Zabuza then makes several Mizu Bunshin BECAUSE he notices Jirōbō has went underground. This is completely debunked now seeing as:
Jirōbō conceals himself prior to the mist - Moguragakure no Jutsu is less than a second in application fooling both; The sharingan & Byakugan.
Zabuza sacrifices his eyes, for his ears in the mist - Initially he becomes blind.
However, I will humor your premise. Even so, if Zabuza makes several Mizu Bunshin it would prove futile - Zabuza would ultimately be wasting much needed reserves. I say this because Moguragakure no Jutsu like I've stated several times before allows the user to sense anything on the surface. Jirōbō while submerged senses the original Zabuza, then notices other chakras have popped up as well.
Thing is, while underground the user can still discern the entire situation as I showed you previously (Tobi knowing exactly where Deidara was, despite being airborne) - It'd be something like
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meaning Jirōbō would be able to deduce what is what. But an even simpler tactic would be: To focus on the first sensed chakra eg; Zabuza
When you said Zabuza would confuse Jirōbō with water clones, you obviously didn't take logical thinking into hand correct? Why take a chance and strike at other unknown targets you know nothing about, when YOUR initial target, who you've got information about is in your sights? Common knowledge you take out the known rather than the unknown.
#3
Oh my.. Another misconception you've seemed to come to is that Jirōbō needs to come to the surface to attack.. I've already explaining here: "
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" that movements/jutsu can be easily used while Hiding Like a Mole is active.
What you've seemed to call it was Fanfiction? I'm not quite understanding why you believe Jirōbō channeling his chakra into the Earth, which is WHAT ALL SURFACE-BASED EARTH TECHNIQUES REQUIRE is fanfic? Example:
Doton: Yomi Numa -
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- Jiraiya turns the selected area's underbelly into a muddy swamp.
Doton: Chidōkaku -
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→
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- Dude made a large wall of Earth to block Deidara's explosive.
Nice fan fic.
You took Jirobo’s earth prison jutsu, and from there deduced Jirobo can chanell his chakra trough all the ground? Lmao. His chakra was already getting weak from being a few mts further from Jirobo. If he channels chakra to the ground, his chakra has a reach limit, which is really poor as seen here:
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If jirobo channels his chakra into the ground, he only has a few mts until his chakra starts getting weaker. No way he can cover all the ground. He can only cover a small area around himself. And given the fact that Zabuza would approach using clones first, if Jirobo uses this on a clone, he gets trolled, again.
Like my bro Apex says: "You're grasping @ straws", and those straws are unbearably thin. The reason why Jirōbō's chakra was uneven is due to him not having perfect chakra control eg; Hyuga, and because he was chakra exhausted - Hence why he was devouring their chakra.
The thing is you're saying Jirōbō would channel his chakra into the entire surface, which he wouldn't - That'd be stupid. Why would Jirōbō channel his energy into a massive area, when I've already explaining to you that he'd know Zabuza's exact location? Think about it. He wouldn't.
#4
1- You’re assuming Zabuza would just give Jirobo enough time to lift two mountain sized rocks and smash them against the ground. Don’t forget Zabuza’s keen senses. Once he hears Jirobo lifting a rock, he pinpoints his exact location and decapitates him. Or simply makes a long ranged water jutsu to where the sound comes from. It wouldn’t take Jirobo down but it would disrupt the whole stone lifting thing.
4- Zabuza can just stand near Jirobo so the stone wouldn’t crush him. Unless Jirobo is planning to crush himself too.
Whaaaat? Jirōbō doesn't need "time" to lift mountain-sized structures. The dude uses Hiding Like a Mole technique to literally pick up everything, and anything that is above him; INSTANTLY. Funny thing is, if this is used while the mist is up, Zabuza has officially committed suicide:
Jirōbō lifts a mountain-sized portion of VoTE - Throws it @ previously sensed Zabuza's location.
Airborne thrown constructs don't really make a sound until close up eg; Football - Baseball etc.
Zabuza would be crushed before he could initially react - Not that he could evade a mountain anyway.
This all takes place in less than a second or two, and if you honestly think Zabuza can cover 50+ meters in those seconds you're crazy bro.. And not the good kind of crazy.
End
That's about all I NEED to counter honestly. My opener very much still stands, good luck trying to prove Zabuza isn't outmatched here. Btw, thanks for the de-rusting, I very much needed this.
-Last post
-Click on the underlined context
-Jirōbō solos
The majority of what you've used to counter is misconception/misunderstanding. Also, I will not counter the beginning portion regarding: Zabuza's basic capabilities (handseal speed, bodyflicker speed, etc.) as they aren't important for this battles overall conclusion. One more thing: The sections may not be in order, so I apologize beforehand as I chose the most important to counter first.
You saying they’re not important is just ridiculouss. As you’re implying things like Jirobo lifting a waterfall sized rock / enough sized to plug a river rock before Zabuza (who has decent speed feats, hand seals speed feats and striking speed feats) does something. Speed is a vital point here.
PS. Things I didn't counter from your post mean that they've become null due to their initial premise (action required before such & such happens/happened).
Just going to educate you real quick in Geography. Now you say that if Jirōbō lifts the entire right portion of VoTE, that it won't plug the river's entirety. Well my man, you are unfortunately incorrect. Here's why:
The average river is 3ft in depth - The deepest river is 720ft in depth.
The average waterfall is 3,211ft in height - The tallest waterfall is 3,230ft in height.
Well you didn’t understand my point at all, as expected since I first read your first pharagraph. If Jirobo lifts a rock big enough to plug the river he wastes too much time against a silent and fast opponent. If he does it fast, the rock won’t have the size or the the form to plug the river.
Anyways, just the fact that he lowers his guard to lift a rock means his death.
Zabuza can track the opponent just by his normal sounds (breathing and etc.. since he tracked Kakashi who wasn’t even talking or making any major sound) so he’d perfectly hear the rock lifting, thus using his fast sunshin (see the scans I posted on my first post) to reach the already located enemy and finish him. Jirobo would have his guard down by the fact that he’s lifting a rock, thus he wouldn’t be able to do anything to Zabuza.
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Anyways, even if Jirobo isn’t lifting a rock and has his guard up, he still won’t be able to react properly. Look ak Kakashi having trouble against Zabuza’s attacks, he can’t do jack shit here, since he has no indication of reflexes that put him on par with Kakashi’s (not even close).
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Now if the
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of VoTE is not only taller than the waterfall, but wider as well, the concealing of said
Lifting a rock of that size puts him on a vulnerable situation, and Zabuza murks him. Even if he had his guard up he wouldn’t be even close to Kakashi’s speed and reactions, so let alone lifting a rock.
Anyways, the river being concealed is not such a big deal, since the only water jutsu I’ve made key for my argument is water clones, which can be used without water source as already showed on my first post. (Not that I’m conceding on this point, Jirobo is not plugging the river without getting killed, but just wanted to say that Zabuza’s water clones can still be done without it).
I won't even mention length, due to how broken Jirōbō would be if I per say said: Jirōbō simply throws every surrounding @ Zabuza. This would completely decimate Zabuza's chances of winning, but I won't do that because see I have morality, and want you to believe Zabuza actually has a chance. Honestly, the mist actually serves as an advantage to Jirōbō instead of Zabuza. Which is sad in its own right.
Oh sure, Jirobo starts throwing every sorrowding against an opponent who he can’t even see and is fast enough to dodge every attack he makes completely decimating Zabuza. Shit this debate is over, what can Zabuza do against that?
Sure. Jirobo plugs the river at the cost of his life. Funny how you didn’t even bother to counter my argument of Zabuza not letting Jirobo lift a mountain. But oh well, your choice.
#1
Your first misconception was that Zabuza could hear movement underground - That is terribly, horrendously
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:
Zabuza heard Kakashi's dogs
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because: The dogs chose to reveal themselves (they were resurfacing) - Not only that, Zabuza was horrendously confused as to what initially was going on. He simply sat there like a blind-moron.
Moguragakure no Jutsu is SILENT.
Moguragakure no Jutsu literally turns the ground into really soft sand enabling its users to achieve feats such as
You must be registered for see links
→
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. Kakashi easily evaded a large-scale katon, whilst it was seconds away from scorching him however, that isn't all. The technique was even quick enough in application speed to fool Itachi - A sharingan user - Talk of Zabuza even anticipating such a technique is ridiculous.
Oh well, another fanfic. First of all, you’re comparing Kakashi’s hiding like a mole technique to Jirobo’s.
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Jirobo literally descimated all the ground beneath him to use this technique and you believe he can use it silently? No proof of that, at all. Not all shinobis can use the same techniques at the same level.
Lmao at you using Kakashi as an example, who is leagues above Jirobo. Its like saying Kid Sasuke defeats the gokage with fire jutsus using Madara’s katon as example. Smh.
So jirobo’s hiding like a mole is not silent at all. Zabuza would see and hear the ground beneath him getting destroyed. You say Kakashi’s dogs made noise because they were surfacing, so do you mean Jirobo isn’t surfacing too? Oh shit, true, he is only hiding from Zabuza, since he can’t do anything else.
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#2
Another ridiculous claim you've made is that you actually believe Zabuza could/would fool Jirōbō with Mizu Bunshin. You're honestly severely underestimating him, as well Moguragakure no Jutsu's workings. While the user is submerged underground they can sense anything
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the surface - Notice how Tobi instantly faced Deidara? He knew his positioning from the start - Even while airborne. Back to the consensus:
Jirōbō
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himself before using Moguragakure no Jutsu. Moguragakure takes less than a second to apply, leaving Zabuza ignorant to the situation (due to unreliable information on Jirōbō's position). Zabuza also CANNOT see in the mist - He tracks his opponents by sound, but Jirōbō is underground meaning: no sound.
I’ll keep it short.
1-Jirobo destroys all the ground to use hiding like a mole. No feats say he can use it silently on Kakashi’s level.
2-I still haven’t seen your counter to Zabuza making clones to fool Jirobo. You just called it a ridiculouss claim but you didn’t even bother to counter it. Hiding like a mole allows the user to feel the magnetic force above him thus knowing what’s happening above the ground. Zabuza making clones would not only bug his sensing, it would give Zabuza the chance to change positions with his clones. Jirobo knowing Zabuza’s initial position is not useful, since once Zabuza makes the clones, he could simply change his starting position by switching with a clone. Not that Jirobo could differentiate between 6/7 different magnecitic forces, lmao. The guy would just get dizzy trying to follow what happens up there.
From your reasoning, Zabuza then makes several Mizu Bunshin BECAUSE he notices Jirōbō has went underground. This is completely debunked now seeing as:
Jirōbō conceals himself prior to the mist - Moguragakure no Jutsu is less than a second in application fooling both; The sharingan & Byakugan.
Zabuza sacrifices his eyes, for his ears in the mist - Initially he becomes blind.
All this gets debunked by the fact that Zabuza just closed his eyes on the mist because he didn’t want to get under genjutsu from Kakashi’s sharingan, lmfao. Against an opponent without dojutsu, he has no reason to close his eyes.
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Zabuza clearly states he closed his eyes just to crumble Kakashi’s sharingan
Zabuza never loses the track of his opponents, even with the mist in. Lmao. Look at this:
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Zabuza could tell with detail every one of Kakashi’s moves after he hid in the mist. He doesn’t need to close his eyes. He can clearly see. I don’t know why you tought Zabuza would be using his closed eyes tactic, when it was special against sharingan.
So no, once Zabuza puts the mist up, he just never loses track of Jirobo, since:
1- He never closes his eyes on this match
2- Jirobo’s hiding like a mole is not silent
So, Zabuza clearly notices if Jirobo goes underground, since he can see his opponent in the mist, because he never lost track of him.
Jirobo goes underground, Zabuza jumps to the water or makes water clones. Jirobo going underground is completely useless.
However, I will humor your premise. Even so, if Zabuza makes several Mizu Bunshin it would prove futile - Zabuza would ultimately be wasting much needed reserves. I say this because Moguragakure no Jutsu like I've stated several times before allows the user to sense anything on the surface. Jirōbō while submerged senses the original Zabuza, then notices other chakras have popped up as well.
Overrating magnecitc force sensing? Where?
Anyways, Zabuza makes the clones, Jirobo senses the original Zabuza but then his senses get jammed by all the other magnetic forces. Could he really tell the difference between so many magnetic forces? It’s just as easy for Zabuza as move two steps with his clones and all the magnetic forces are mixed up.
Thing is, while underground the user can still discern the entire situation as I showed you previously (Tobi knowing exactly where Deidara was, despite being airborne) - It'd be something like
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meaning Jirōbō would be able to deduce what is what. But an even simpler tactic would be: To focus on the first sensed chakra eg; Zabuza
Sigh.
It doesn’t sense chakra, it senses force. Tobi’s example was shit, he had only to feel one huge magnetic force (which is deidara’s bird). There was no jamming between the magnetic force. There was nothing there to confuse tobi. Not even remotely like this situation.
When you said Zabuza would confuse Jirōbō with water clones, you obviously didn't take logical thinking into hand correct? Why take a chance and strike at other unknown targets you know nothing about, when YOUR initial target, who you've got information about is in your sights? Common knowledge you take out the known rather than the unknown.
Again, Jirobo’s sensing gets jammed because of all the other magnetic forces. He loses the track of the original one. And if he attacks, he risks to get a clone, and get descimated by the real one.
Anyways, at the moment Jirobo surfaces, Zabuza simply jumps back.
And still, you haven’t countered the fact that Zabuza could simply chose to jump to the water, when he sees Jirobo went underground. Just keep ignoring some of my arguments pal.
#3
Oh my.. Another misconception you've seemed to come to is that Jirōbō needs to come to the surface to attack.. I've already explaining here: "
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" that movements/jutsu can be easily used while Hiding Like a Mole is active.
Is this a joke? If jirobo channels his chakra from under the ground and starts making the earth move, Zabuza jumps back from that location. Not to mention, that would only happen if jirobo has the luck of finding the real Zabuza from under the ground.
And still, I see no counter to Zabuza going to the water to avoid this. Since the river concealing was a joke from the beginning.
What you've seemed to call it was Fanfiction? I'm not quite understanding why you believe Jirōbō channeling his chakra into the Earth, which is WHAT ALL SURFACE-BASED EARTH TECHNIQUES REQUIRE is fanfic? Example:
Doton: Yomi Numa -
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- Jiraiya turns the selected area's underbelly into a muddy swamp.
Doton: Chidōkaku -
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→
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- Dude made a large wall of Earth to block Deidara's explosive.
I called fanfic the fact that you were saying Jirobo could channel chackra to a big surface, since he can only cover a small one. Which Zabuza can escape from with just one jump. Pitiful.
Like my bro Apex says: "You're grasping @ straws", and those straws are unbearably thin. The reason why Jirōbō's chakra was uneven is due to him not having perfect chakra control eg; Hyuga, and because he was chakra exhausted - Hence why he was devouring their chakra.
When he had already absorbed a lot of Naruto’s, Choji’s, Shikamaru’s, Kiba’s and Neji’s chakra he could only cover a small portion of earth with cakra. Meaning that if he tried to cover a big area of the ground with this his control of the ground would be poor, and still, the affected area would be too small. As soon as the ground moves Zabuza jumps back.
The thing is you're saying Jirōbō would channel his chakra into the entire surface, which he wouldn't - That'd be stupid. Why would Jirōbō channel his energy into a massive area, when I've already explaining to you that he'd know Zabuza's exact location? Think about it. He wouldn't.
Chanelling it like that is useless since:
1- He doesn’t know where Zabuza is. His sensing is jammed by the clones.
2- If the area affected is too small, Zabuza breaks no sweat on jumping back from it.
Anyways, this is all pointless if Zabuza just decides to escape to the water. Which shamefully, you just ignored, or decided to counter with a really poor argument of Jirobo concealing the river, which would mean his death, since he can’t lift a boulder from underground.
#4
Whaaaat? Jirōbō doesn't need "time" to lift mountain-sized structures. The dude uses Hiding Like a Mole technique to literally pick up everything, and anything that is above him; INSTANTLY. Funny thing is, if this is used while the mist is up, Zabuza has officially committed suicide:
Jirōbō lifts a mountain-sized portion of VoTE - Throws it @ previously sensed Zabuza's location.
Airborne thrown constructs don't really make a sound until close up eg; Football - Baseball etc.
Zabuza would be crushed before he could initially react - Not that he could evade a mountain anyway.
This all takes place in less than a second or two, and if you honestly think Zabuza can cover 50+ meters in those seconds you're crazy bro.. And not the good kind of crazy.
0- Instantly? You mean fast in front of gennins eyes. And I already stated the difference between Zabuza and these guys in speed. But sure, you decided to call that “not important”, and of course, it falls back right to your face.
1- Once Jirobo starts lifting, Zabuza hears it, uses his sunshin to approach Jirobo’s location, and finishes him (who won’t be able to see Zabuza coming, since he’s not underground, and he can’t see from above the ground).
2- The sound would be made when the boulder is being lifted. Are you really implying Jirobo would just tear apart a piece of ground big enough to plug a river, and make no relevant noise? Considering Zabuza could locate Kakashi by just normal sounds.
3- Lmao at the Zabuza would be crushed before he could react. Choji reacted and counter attacked a smaller boulder, which obviously, takes a lot less time to be thrown. You gave me a good laugh here.
4- You implied Jirobo would : Lift a mountain sized boulder, without making noise, and throw it to an opponent who he can’t even see or sense anymore (since he’s already above the ground) so fast that Zabuza wouldn’t even react? Even knowing Choji reacted to a faster attack since the boulder was smaller/lighter?
Let Jirobo lift that rock, he gets shattered.
End
That's about all I NEED to counter honestly. My opener very much still stands, good luck trying to prove Zabuza isn't outmatched here. Btw, thanks for the de-rusting, I very much needed this.
1- Zabuza makes the mist, Jirobo goes underground
2- Zabuza never loses track of his opponent, nor he closes his eyes. This plus the fact that Jirobo hasn’t used hiding like a mole silently, since he turned the ground to shreds before using it, lets Zabuza know Jirobo went underground.
3- With Jirobo underground, Zabuza prepares for an underground attack, and makes clones, which would Jam the magnetic force sensing. Adding the fact that he can mix with his clones, Jirobo won’t be able to differenciate from the real one. Since the clones have the same size and mass as the original, they all make the same magnetic force.
4- Zabuza could just jump to the water once he realizes Jirobo went underground. This was completely ignored
5- If Jirobo starts attacking from underground, Zabuza jumps away from the area that is affected by jirobo’s chakra, which is sadly, small.
6- Jirobo realizes he can’t do shit from underground because A- he can’t differentiate between Zabuza and his clones B- Zabuza can easely jump away from the small area affected by Jirobo’s chakra C- Zabuza jumped to the water. So he decides to attack from above, for that, he needs to disperse the mist.
7- Jirobo decides to lift a boulder (big enough to plug a river) without making noise (lmao) and fast enough to not give Zabuza, someone a lot faster than him, time to react (2x lmao) doing all this with his guard down. Not to mention, that Jirobo has lost track of where Zabuza (and his clones) are/is, since he’s no more underground. He would throw a rock against Zabuza who casually hasn’t moved from his initial position and kill him (3x lmao). Out of jokes. Choji reacted to a faster boulder throwing.
8- You are the one that decided to ignore Zabuza’s speed feats
Once Jirobo starts lifting the boulder, Zabuza hears it and sunshins to that location (with a sunshin that outspeeded even Kakashi) and kills Jirobo, who can’t react to an attack that a sharingan user couldn’t properly.
I almost forgot something important. I was debating this against dkdankong who is a judge of this debate, so just in case. V2 skin got pierced by small knifes on Kankuro’s puppets. KiriburikibkasfaoklBocho (Zabuza’s sword) pierces it easely.
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This can be judged already. I think we have 3 confirmed judges dkdankong Ej black and NSUNSR and a possible fourth who’s forbidden technique. You can start your veredict
Misconceptions everywhere boy. But lmfao @ that gif. Let the best man win. Good debate bro.
Edit: Jirobo did that to conceal his location smh. F*ck I want to murder that post so bad. Looool.
Edit2: Zabuza can't see in the mist, only if they're close up as seen vs Kakashi when he attacked Sakura, and the bridge builder. So keeping his eyes closed was only for when close range happened.
Misconceptions everywhere boy. But lmfao @ that gif. Let the best man win. Good debate bro.
Edit: Jirobo did that to conceal his location smh. F*ck I want to murder that post so bad. Looool.
Edit2: Zabuza can't see in the mist, only if they're close up as seen vs Kakashi when he attacked Sakura, and the bridge builder.
Sadly you assumed Zabuza would have used his v2 mist against Jirobo. :/ He never loses track of jirobo. He can clearly see as i posted a scan of Zabuza seeing everything Kakashi did after he hid in the mist in detail. Damn. I would murder your counter again.
Sadly you assumed Zabuza would have used his v2 mist against Jirobo. :/ He never loses track of jirobo. He can clearly see as i posted a scan of Zabuza seeing everything Kakashi did after he hid in the mist in detail. Damn. I would murder your counter again.
You didn't murder shit. All I see is a bunch of misconceptions out the ass fam. Jirobo conceals himself in the debris created. If Zabuza's hearing was so proficient why didn't he hear Kakashi's dogs go underground from the start? Looooool. Inb4 Dogs were summoned underground, that would crush them. Lmaoooo.
Debunked boy. Jirobo would clown Zabuza. Ima let the judges judge though. You did good tho man.
You didn't murder shit. All I see is a bunch of misconceptions out the ass fam. Jirobo conceals himself in the debris created. If Zabuza's hearing was so proficient why didn't he hear Kakashi's dogs go underground from the start? Looooool. Inb4 Dogs were summoned underground, that would crush them. Lmaoooo.
Debunked boy. Jirobo would clown Zabuza. Ima let the judges judge though. You did good tho man.
Lmao at you assuming things. You yourself just said Jirobo conceals himself on the debris he created. Proof he can do it without creating those things? No. Jirobo's hiding like a mole sucks compared to Kakashi's, since he needs to conceal in broken ground.
And Zabuza did hear the dogs. He couldn't react to 8 haunting shinobi dogs coming from underground, but he did hear it.
If Jirobo attacks from underground Zabuza just jumps away
But all this has been argued already. Let the judges judge. Let Zabuza kill.
EDIT:
I hope the judges realize Zabuza is not using v2 mist here since i never stated it. It is obvious tough anyways.
Lmao at you assuming things. You yourself just said Jirobo conceals himself on the debris he created. Proof he can do it without creating those things? No. Jirobo's hiding like a mole sucks compared to Kakashi's, since he needs to conceal in broken ground.
And Zabuza did hear the dogs. He couldn't react to 8 haunting shinobi dogs coming from underground, but he did hear it.
If Jirobo attacks from underground Zabuza just jumps away
But all this has been argued already. Let the judges judge. Let Zabuza kill.
EDIT:
I hope the judges realize Zabuza is not using v2 mist here since i never stated it. It is obvious tough anyways.
Jirobo breaking the ground to shroud himself ≠ inferior Hiding Like a Mole technique. Lmaoooo. If anything that's an improved application.
Loooooool. Couldn't react to shinobi dogs. Didn't hear them till after they INITIALLY resurfaced to grab him. He was to slow to react before they even initially attacked. Looooool. Zabuza slow as shit if he just let a bunch of ninja dogs eat his ass up.
Ok ok, lets stop arguing fam. We need to have another debate though VM me if you down.
oh ok, this is a bad fight setup imo jirobo automatically has the upper hand because of his affinity. I'm not into debates so I won't look into it but have fun.
oh ok, this is a bad fight setup imo jirobo automatically has the upper hand because of his affinity. I'm not into debates so I won't look into it but have fun.
I am breaking down from what I am reading here. Proof approach was more offensive while EZQ was more defensive (attempting to screw Proof tactics to claim victory)
Dr Proof
1. Tactic 1 sum up: Transfer away to an advantage position. Once complete, crush opponents with a mountain size rock. Also puts opponent at big disadvantage, if unsuccessful.
EZQ counter: Silent killing tracks and blitz before occurring.
Dr Proof
2. Tactic 2 sum up: Applies a follow up for Tactic 1. If failed to kill Zabuza, having field advantage overwhelm him with Doton techs.
EZQ counter: Rebuttals the distance Jirobo's Doton can cover to invalidate the premise.
Dr Proof
3. Tactic 3 sum up: Jirobo silently approach Zabuza underneath and traps him in Dome
EZQ counter: Clones gives probability of catching the wrong one. Or using a less thicker Mist so his reaction wont slow down.
1. Base on what I read EZQ clearly provided the feats that enables Jirobo to get blitz. The issue here is that EZQ premise was base on starting distance to where water source, while Proof provided the location where he will lift his mountain[
You must be registered for see links
]. Thats a clear gap in distance to where I come to question blitzing from that distance. EZQ has not specify where Zabuza and clones are in distance
You must be registered for see images
I drew two line that covers the distance to what I am talking about.
2. It follow tactic one. Dr Proof did clarify Doton jutsu use, thus wasn't convince that it could be invalidated. Which EZQ attempt rebuttal.
3. Since EZQ clarified which type- Mist is being used here, he has fully convinced me that Jirobo tactic here fails with reaction and clones, leading to Jirobo's defeat.
Conclusion:
Due to no clarification of blitzing distance against Jirobo, I can only assume Jirobo's success is highly probable in Tactic 1(which Dr Proof argument heavenly rely on). Thus I give the winning argument to Dr Proof. EZQ countering Tactic 3 convince me the probability jumped Zabuza to 40% victory. Since Tactic 1 was highly probable, it also gave me 40%. Tactic 2 plays along Tactic 1. And Proof plays it safe with an advantage, thus jumped to 10% to me.
60/40.
EZQ Advice:
I felt like you could of won this debate if you read Dr. Proof's faulty "proof" more carefully. He claimed that (which you accepted and attempt as a counter) having the strength to hold Summoning Giants (Choji rivals the size and weight) somehow rivals lifting mountain scaling. If you were willing take the approach of invalidate such ridiculous claim, the argument would have been 1 sided in your favor.
I am breaking down from what I am reading here. Proof approach was more offensive while EZQ was more defensive (attempting to screw Proof tactics to claim victory)
Dr Proof
1. Tactic 1 sum up: Transfer away to an advantage position. Once complete, crush opponents with a mountain size rock. Also puts opponent at big disadvantage, if unsuccessful.
EZQ counter: Silent killing tracks and blitz before occurring.
Dr Proof
2. Tactic 2 sum up: Applies a follow up for Tactic 1. If failed to kill Zabuza, having field advantage overwhelm him with Doton techs.
EZQ counter: Rebuttals the distance Jirobo's Doton can cover to invalidate the premise.
Dr Proof
3. Tactic 3 sum up: Jirobo silently approach Zabuza underneath and traps him in Dome
EZQ counter: Clones gives probability of catching the wrong one. Or using a less thicker Mist so his reaction wont slow down.
1. Base on what I read EZQ clearly provided the feats that enables Jirobo to get blitz. The issue here is that EZQ premise was base on starting distance to where water source, while Proof provided the location where he will lift his mountain[
You must be registered for see links
]. Thats a clear gap in distance to where I come to question blitzing from that distance. EZQ has not specify where Zabuza and clones are in distance
You must be registered for see images
I drew two line that covers the distance to what I am talking about.
2. It follow tactic one. Dr Proof did clarify Doton jutsu use, thus wasn't convince that it could be invalidated. Which EZQ attempt rebuttal.
3. Since EZQ clarified which type- Mist is being used here, he has fully convinced me that Jirobo tactic here fails with reaction and clones, leading to Jirobo's defeat.
Conclusion:
Due to no clarification of blitzing distance against Jirobo, I can only assume Jirobo's success is highly probable in Tactic 1(which Dr Proof argument heavenly rely on). Thus I give the winning argument to Dr Proof. EZQ countering Tactic 3 convince me the probability jumped Zabuza to 40% victory. Since Tactic 1 was highly probable, it also gave me 40%. Tactic 2 plays along Tactic 1. And Proof plays it safe with an advantage, thus jumped to 10% to me.
60/40.
EZQ Advice:
I felt like you could of won this debate if you read Dr. Proof's faulty "proof" more carefully. He claimed that (which you accepted and attempt as a counter) having the strength to hold Summoning Giants (Choji rivals the size and weight) somehow rivals lifting mountain scaling. If you were willing take the approach of invalidate such ridiculous claim, the argument would have been 1 sided in your favor.
Ah I see what you mean. But I disagree just on one thing. Choji was said to take on properties of a mountain via Manga/Databook - That not only includes height, but weight ratio as well. So I don't believe that lifting mountains would be a fallacious claim.
I also feel like #3 wasn't countered 100% seeing as focusing on target #1 (the known - rather than the unknown) would be the most probable choice. But overall, I have nothing else to argue with. I'm sure EZQ will chip in on his disagreements.
Solid judgement, short, and too the point. Thanks Ej.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Zabuza wouldn't be blitzing seeing as your line your drew representing the distances. It was implied throughout the Hiding Like a Mole technique that distance would be put between the two by far.
I am breaking down from what I am reading here. Proof approach was more offensive while EZQ was more defensive (attempting to screw Proof tactics to claim victory)
Dr Proof
1. Tactic 1 sum up: Transfer away to an advantage position. Once complete, crush opponents with a mountain size rock. Also puts opponent at big disadvantage, if unsuccessful.
EZQ counter: Silent killing tracks and blitz before occurring.
Dr Proof
2. Tactic 2 sum up: Applies a follow up for Tactic 1. If failed to kill Zabuza, having field advantage overwhelm him with Doton techs.
EZQ counter: Rebuttals the distance Jirobo's Doton can cover to invalidate the premise.
Dr Proof
3. Tactic 3 sum up: Jirobo silently approach Zabuza underneath and traps him in Dome
EZQ counter: Clones gives probability of catching the wrong one. Or using a less thicker Mist so his reaction wont slow down.
1. Base on what I read EZQ clearly provided the feats that enables Jirobo to get blitz. The issue here is that EZQ premise was base on starting distance to where water source, while Proof provided the location where he will lift his mountain[
You must be registered for see links
]. Thats a clear gap in distance to where I come to question blitzing from that distance. EZQ has not specify where Zabuza and clones are in distance
You must be registered for see images
I drew two line that covers the distance to what I am talking about.
2. It follow tactic one. Dr Proof did clarify Doton jutsu use, thus wasn't convince that it could be invalidated. Which EZQ attempt rebuttal.
3. Since EZQ clarified which type- Mist is being used here, he has fully convinced me that Jirobo tactic here fails with reaction and clones, leading to Jirobo's defeat.
Conclusion:
Due to no clarification of blitzing distance against Jirobo, I can only assume Jirobo's success is highly probable in Tactic 1(which Dr Proof argument heavenly rely on). Thus I give the winning argument to Dr Proof. EZQ countering Tactic 3 convince me the probability jumped Zabuza to 40% victory. Since Tactic 1 was highly probable, it also gave me 40%. Tactic 2 plays along Tactic 1. And Proof plays it safe with an advantage, thus jumped to 10% to me.
60/40.
EZQ Advice:
I felt like you could of won this debate if you read Dr. Proof's faulty "proof" more carefully. He claimed that (which you accepted and attempt as a counter) having the strength to hold Summoning Giants (Choji rivals the size and weight) somehow rivals lifting mountain scaling. If you were willing take the approach of invalidate such ridiculous claim, the argument would have been 1 sided in your favor.
Thanks for the judgint and for the advice. I at first didn't diferentiate between proofs tactics n1 and n3 or n2 i don't know i should have read more carefully. I didn't bother with the rock thing since i chose to counter it with the speedblitzing tactic while Jirobo lifts it.
I won't make any refutal to this veredict since it seems you read it all carefully and gave your opinion. Respect+
Zabuza clearly notices if Jirobo goes underground, since he can see his opponent in the mist, because he never lost track of him.
