Japanese Zaibatsu/Economy/Culture

[Lightbringer]

So in my previous semester of college, I took a course relating to East Asia. Well within that course, one of the topics we learned was how the Japanese Corporation works, how it influences the economy, and how it is developed into their culture.

What I learned actually amazed me because I never knew this before and I honestly wonder why no other country in the world, especially the U.S. takes an example from Japan.







Firstly, in Japan, the range between the lowest and highest class is not as extreme as it is within the U.S.

Everything is somewhat balanced with poverty being almost non-existent within the poor class, while also not having super-insanely rich members of the highest class.

Japan is also a very family-driven nation, and the Corporations(Zaibatus) become a part of one's family as soon as they start working there. When you work for a Zaibatsu, you become part of that family.

When you work there, you know what exactly you're going to get paid for the next ten years, when you're going to get promoted, and when you're going to retire. It's very secure.

When you get hired, you will always be promoted eventually, along with the other members who were hired around the same time as you. You will get promoted until you are the head of the company, and then retire together along with the other members; or sometimes, but few, decide to stay longer.






In Japan, CEO would actually cut their own salary rather than having to let people go in times of debt; they are that loyal, and a recent action happened with Nintendo where the Nintendo president took a 67% pay cut in order to keep everyone on board in 2012.

Someone in my class asked the Professor: "If they will always get paid, promoted, and not fired, then what's to stop them from being lazy and not doing their work?" to which the Professor replied "Because they are Japanese."

He said in Japan, money is not what dictates class. In ancient Japan, the lowest class were actually the Merchants, who were very wealthy, because they made money off of other people's work whereas Peasants, even though they are poor, grow the crops to feed the people of Japan; thus, their work yields productivity and a service to the people of Japan.

So he said, in Japan, people don't work for money, they work for the opportunity to be able to say "Hey, I work for Sony." or "Hey, I work for Toyota." It is a privilege to be part of something big.

He made a comparison saying, the Japanese business man is the equivalent of a modern day Samurai

Samurai were not always wealthy, yet they had complete loyalty to their Daimyo, which they trusted would take care of them. Being a Samurai and serving the Daimyo gave them status, much like how the Japanese business man serves the Zaibatsu.








The Professor also told the class a story of how he and his stepfather were driving in Japan in their Nissan, when suddenly it broke down. Fortunately, a Nissan representative was there to see it, and asked what happened, offering to not only pay for the repairs of the vehicle himself, but also to service my Professor and his stepfather to a 5-star Hotel and all the food they could eat at his own expense, because that is how passionate and loyal they are to their companies.

So after hearing all that, it makes me wonder why no one else practices such a system. The system is secure, honest, friendly, a team-effort where everyone has each others backs, and also promising.

You may not get rich in one day, but you will become rich over the years and also not have to fear being fired, searching for another job in 5 years, or losing a promotion to someone else. Point is, there are no risks, only benefits.

It just sounds like one of the best systems we currently have.

There is an interesting dichotomy here as well; Western Society, Land of the Setting Sun is the complete opposite of Japan, the Land of the Rising Sun.

 

[Hypemaster]

We need tons more Zaibatsu in the US.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

The thing about that though is everyone takes pride in their job so they can brag about what they are doing. Which in fact pushes the superiority complex of society even further.

Sure a guy working for Sony brags and gets praised for working and being apart of such a successful company but they also look down on those who are say janitors. Even during the imperial ages that your professor used as an example, the samurai who worked directly under the emperor or even the top dog executioner who beheaded people upon the emperors request would look down on others that didn't have such a distinguished title. They did in fact look down on rice pickers and peasants and expected to be treated as superior by them. The samurai's with a lord they worked for would separate themselves from the out of work samurai.

Not to mention money does play a huge part in any civilization which leads to greed, it's evident even in anime and manga where they drag it out to make as much money as possible.

I do agree that a lot of people are more willing to help and are or try to be a bit less greedy because of how prominent buddhism is there but of course this doesn't apply to every business in that economy. There will always be those who are greedy.

The whole purpose of any economy is growth, in order for that to happen you need people who want more. Which needs people who will do whatever it takes to prosper.

 

[Lightbringer]

The thing about that though is everyone takes pride in their job so they can brag about what they are doing. Which in fact pushes the superiority complex of society even further.

Sure a guy working for Sony brags and gets praised for working and being apart of such a successful company but they also look down on those who are say janitors. Even during the imperial ages that your professor used as an example, the samurai who worked directly under the emperor or even the top dog executioner who beheaded people upon the emperors request would look down on others that didn't have such a distinguished title. They did in fact look down on rice pickers and peasants and expected to be treated as superior by them. The samurai's with a lord they worked for would separate themselves from the out of work samurai.

Not to mention money does play a huge part in any civilization, it's evident even in anime and manga where they drag it out to make as much money as possible.

I do agree that a lot of people are more willing to help and are or try to be a bit less greedy because of how prominent the buddhism is there but of course this doesn't apply to every business in that economy. There will always be those who are greedy.

The whole purpose of any economy is growth, in order for that to happen you need people who want more.

Well obviously money is still a huge factor, but it's not a dog-eat-dog society like it is with the U.S. from what I understand.

Sure, people may have pride, and look down on others, but that's human nature. However, in Japanese society, they are more disciplined. Respect is a huge factor in Japan, always bowing before and after conversations.

In fact, it would be considered impolite to be the first to stop bowing, which is why you will commonly see Japanese constantly bowing during conversations and walking backwards while bowing during their farewells until they lose sight of each other.

Elders in Japan are treated with respect rather than being considered a liability like so in western countries.

My professor also told the class how you won't know a Japanese man is rich because they do not flaunt their money, constantly buying expensive things to prove that they are wealthy like they do in western society.

A Japanese man will buy a Toyota, not a Lamborghini simply because they are rich. They buy what works and is efficient, saving the rest of their money for future generations. Ofcourse there a those who still do it, but that's not the norm in Japan.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Well obviously money is still a huge factor, but it's not a dog-eat-dog society like it is with the U.S. from what I understand.

Sure, people may have pride, and look down on others, but that's human nature. However, in Japanese society, they are more disciplined. Elders in Japan are treated with respect rather than being considered a liability like so in western countries.

My professor also told the class how you won't know a Japanese man is rich because they do not flaunt their money, constantly buying expensive things to prove that they are wealthy like they do in western society.

A Japanese man will buy a Toyota, not a Lamborghini simply because they are rich. They buy what works and is efficient, saving the rest of their money for future generations. Ofcourse there a those who still do it, but that's not the norm in Japan.

I honestly believe it's the same wherever you go honestly, because we're all human and have the same natures, you'll always run into that one guy that's similar to someone else you've met. It's just the east and west have different religions which plays a huge part in any society because the citizens will follow what they've learned. All those traits you've listed are based of the buddhists teachings which are huge in japan. But of course not everyone is buddhist or even in a religion so I'm sure it's about 50/50 with these customs your professor says.

Do I think it's a better economy? No, not really. Every country puts on a show to make it seem better than it really is. Like in many countries people honestly believe they can come to America and create a better life. When they get here they see it might be a little easier but it's not really that much different. They were fooled based off how the country portrays itself to the world. In the end every economy is governed by the world economy and follow along the same lines. It's based off of interest, debt, and loans. That's truly the only way an economy can sustain itself.

If you do ever move there though I would like to hear you're opinion on it but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors I believe.

 

[Hexuze]

Didn't read but I got a huge fetish for east asian women.

 

[Lightbringer]

I honestly believe it's the same wherever you go honestly, because we're all human and have the same natures, you'll always run into that one guy that's similar to someone else you've met. It's just the east and west have different religions which plays a huge part in any society because the citizens will follow what they've learned. All those traits you've listed are based of the buddhists teachings which are huge in japan. But of course not everyone is buddhist or even in a religion so I'm sure it's about 50/50 with these customs your professor says.

Do I think it's a better economy? No, not really. Every country puts on a show to make it seem better than it really is. Like in many countries people honestly believe they can come to America and create a better life. When they get here they see it might be a little easier but it's not really that much different. They were fooled based off how the country portrays itself to the world. In the end every economy is governed by the world economy and follow along the same lines. It's based off of interest, debt, and loans. That's truly the only way an economy can sustain itself.

If you do ever move there though I would like to hear you're opinion on it but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors I believe.

Well I can see the point you're trying to make, I'd say it's a bit of a naive view of the world. How much do we really know about other societies when we only experienced one? We only assume that human's have their worst features because it is so common in our society.

Yes there are bad apples in every part of the world, but some are born and raised with different principles. The thing that's so different with Japan is because it is the only nation in the world that wasn't influenced by external societies for over 300 years from mid 1500s to the 1800s.

Japan for over a 300 years closed there borders where they developed a unique culture and society, unlike any other in all of Asia or even the world, which is why we have such a hard time understanding their morals and believing their mannerisms.

Japan has no true religion. Buddhisms is merely a lifestyle, not so much a religion. Shintoism is considered the state religion, but again, it is merely a formality, not something that Japanese practice earnestly.

Again, because Japanese have a much different and more secure economy than our own, debt isn't as such an imposing factor in their lives like it is with ours.

This isn't so much a show someone's putting on since this was my Professor's first hand experience. My Professor is white with Japanese ancestry and is also married to a Japanese woman and has a home in Japan which he visits every year, in which he also developed a Japanese accent from his time there, so I take his word for what he says. If I'm not mistaken, he's been married to her for over 20-30 years.

The economy is quite amazing, but that doesn't mean everything is perfect.

My Professor said that the one thing that is terribly wrong with Japan is that they are racist. Japanese are very xenophobic and it is almost impossible for a non-Japanese to move and live in Japan. You won't be treated the same.

Even if you are a Japanese born in America or a Japanese with a Korean mother, you will not be accepted in the same regards and status as pure-blooded Japanese.


Japanese are a strict based society where I doubt we'll see change anytime soon. Men and Woman are not equal in the same regards like in Western Societies, but they each have a specific role to play that is crucial to the development of their culture.


A Japanese Woman would not feel like she is abused because she doesn't have the same privileges as a man, she instead sees it as her duty and purpose to do her womanly duties for Japan. In the Japanese household, the Wife is in charge and also in charge of the money.

 

[Kishi Uzumaki]

Those were the reasons they rise up as a country after world war 2 . they were searching for new concepts after they fall down because of WW2 and two nuclear bombs . the system they founded ( of course they worked hard not giving up ) is the reason they rise up as one of the top developed nations in just 20 or so years .

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Spoiler

Well I can see the point you're trying to make, I'd say it's a bit of a naive view of the world. How much do we really know about other societies when we only experienced one? We only assume that human's have their worst features because it is so common in our society.

Yes there are bad apples in every part of the world, but some are born and raised with different principles. The thing that's so different with Japan is because it is the only nation in the world that wasn't influenced by external societies for over 300 years from mid 1500s to the 1800s.

Japan for over a 300 years closed there borders where they developed a unique culture and society, unlike any other in all of Asia or even the world, which is why we have such a hard time understanding their morals and believing their mannerisms.

Japan has no true religion. Buddhisms is merely a lifestyle, not so much a religion. Shintoism is considered the state religion, but again, it is merely a formality, not something that Japanese practice earnestly.

Again, because Japanese have a much different and more secure economy than our own, debt isn't as such an imposing factor in their lives like it is with ours.

This isn't so much a show someone's putting on since this was my Professor's first hand experience. My Professor is married to a Japanese woman and has a home in Japan which he visits every year. He even has a Japanese accent, so I take his word for what he says.

The economy is quite amazing, but that doesn't mean everything is perfect.

My Professor said that the one thing that is terrible wrong with Japan is that they are racist. Japanese are very xenophobic and it is almost impossible for a non-Japanese to move and live in Japan. You won't be treated the same.

Even if you are a Japanese born in America or a Japanese with a Korean mother, you will not be accepted in the same regards and status as pure-blooded Japanese.

Well I speak from having been to multiple countries, not japan but I've been to many countries and human nature is the same and religious practices govern majority of behavior of the masses. My uncle I'm close to also lived in japan for 5 years helping do lighting for a movie production studio there and I talked to him frequently while he was there to learn about japan because I do like their culture. I've also studied economy for the last couple of years because I find it interesting and I can assure you that japanese economy falls under the same three laws of economy.

So I am indeed not naive, just stating my opinion on the OP and what your professor said that's all. You're entitled to believe what you like though.

 

[Lightbringer]

Well I speak from having been to multiple countries, not japan but I've been to many countries and human nature is the same and religious practices govern majority of behavior of the masses. My uncle I'm close to also lived in japan for 5 years helping do lighting for a movie production studio there and I talked to him frequently while he was there to learn about japan because I do like their culture. I've also studied economy for the last couple of years because I find it interesting and I can assure you that japanese economy falls under the same three laws of economy.

So I am indeed not naive, just stating my opinion on the OP and what your professor said that's all. You're entitled to believe what you like though.

I just meant that I think it's a bit naive to say that everyone's the same wherever you go like you stated. Some societies would have completely exotic residents that will be nothing like anyone you've met.

Ofcourse the economy falls under the same principles, I'm not denying that, but the way their culture is set up influences the way the economy is approached, which is why Japan flourished after WW2.

Japan doesn't face as much debt or problems with the economy as western societies because they work together as a Nation rather than working separately as an individual.

Western societies are capitalistic and entrepreneurial. When the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and that causes problems.

In Japan, it is still technically considered a capitalistic country, but like I said in my thread, Japan works together as a Nation, which why their classes are so balanced, with poverty being hardly an issue at all.

When Japanese work for the Zaibatus, they will not betray their loyalty, even if they find a job that pays better. And the CEO cutting their salary to maintain their workforce rather than firing them is a true testament to that.

I've never heard of anyone ever doing that in the U.S. before, at least not that I know of.

In fact Japanese despise entrepreneurs, which is what Koreans that live in Japan usually are, for they are the greatest minority.

 

[EnDash]

Well on the other hand japanese people are less importent then the job they are doing or the company that employes them, unlike in the west it's not the people that are the base for the country but the jobs and companies. the shintu way and the samurai culture puts the "job" of the samurai or the farmer as more importent to the country then the individual person who works it. correct me if i'm wrong but in ancient japan people did not have a personal name, but were identified only by their profession and every memeber of the family had the same name becase the family did the same profession (it's probably why they add extensions to names that donates position in family that you hear a lot in animes, they donate stuff like brother, sister, elder or child to help identify people that had the same name).

it's not that eastern or westren way is better, each has it's own pros and cons, but i prefer a little more the western thiking of free thought and liberalism, and the idea that individual people are just as importent as the whole machine.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

I just meant that I think it's a bit naive to say that everyone's the same wherever you go like you stated. Some societies would have completely exotic residents that will be nothing like anyone you've met.

Ofcourse the economy falls under the same principles, I'm not denying that, but they way their culture plays out influences the way the economy is approached, which is why Japan flourished after WW2.

Japan doesn't have as much debt or problems with the economy as western societies because they work together as a Nation rather than working separately as an individual.

Western societies are capitalistic and entrepreneurial. When the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and that causes problems.

In Japan, it is still technically considered a capitalistic country, but like I said in my thread, Japan works together as a Nation, which why their classes are so balanced, with poverty being hardly an issue at all.

In fact Japanese despise entrepreneurs, which is what Koreans that live in Japan usually are, for they are the greatest minority.

Well you clearly didn't understand what I have been saying so this will be my last post before going to bed.

Not that you're wrong, you just have a very basic understand and it goes a lot deeper than that regarding both people and the world economy but I don't feel like typing any essay on here lol So maybe another day, though my previous posts basically summarized everything.

 

[Lightbringer]

Well you clearly didn't understand what I have been saying so this will be my last post before going to bed.

Not that you're wrong, you just have a very basic understand and it goes a lot deeper than that regarding both people and the world economy but I don't feel like typing any essay on here lol So maybe another day, though my previous posts basically summarized everything.

Well I can't say my knowledge of economic forces is as well versed as yours since you said you've studied it.

It just seems like it works a lot better. The society itself just seems more sophisticated and more impressive, and not just being lip-service.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

It just seems like it works a lot better. The society itself just seems more sophisticated and more impressive, and not just lip-service.

Yeah I feel you. Have you ever thought about learning japanese and moving there?

 

[Lightbringer]

Yeah I feel you. Have you ever thought about learning japanese and moving there?

Well I'm taking a course in Japanese next-semester, but I wish I could move there. However, my Professor did make it abundantly clear that it's almost impossible for foreigners to move and live in Japan and will never get accepted to the same status.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Well I'm taking a course in Japanese next-semester, but I wish I could move there. However, my Professor did make it abundantly clear that it's almost impossible for foreigners to move and live in Japan and will never get accepted to the same status.

They are very racist I've learned, but I'm sure if you're a good person you can have a decent life with good relationships with people. Like I said in an earlier post my uncle lived there for 5 years and he's not japanese and he lived a pretty good life before coming back to the states. Sure he ran into some racist jerks but that will happen in most foreign countries.

 

[Lightbringer]

They are very racist I've learned, but I'm sure if you're a good person you can have a decent life with good relationships with people. Like I said in an earlier post my uncle lived there for 5 years and he's not japanese and he lived a pretty good life before come back to the states.

Well it really depends on where the work takes me and how fluently I can learn to speak Japanese. I already know another language, so learning a third is going to be tough.

But me and my professor became good buddies. He said he was planning on doing a six month documentary in Japan on the Ainu tribe which is becoming extinct, so hopefully I might be able to go with him and help him out if I have time.