Actually this impenetrability is for only Kurama as Bee's tentacle was sliced by Chidori spear but Kurama's tails tanked a Super Big Ball Rasengan which Databook says hollows mountains, when he fought Naruto, Kakashi used lightning chain to slice off chakra arms while Kurama's V2 couldn't be penetrated by Kusanagi, which is said to cut through almost anything. The Death God is very much different from Susanoo, as it is transparent, invisible to everyone except the sealer and the sealed, it can pass through anything without even damaging it as it put its hand through Sarutobi's belly and only tore his shirt and it held Orochimaru's soul after passing through his shirt but not damaging said shirt.
The fight you speak of happened in naruto's mind. I dont take that seriously.
Secondly what im trying to tell you is that the totsuka sword which is a spiritual weapon is no different to the death god's hand. It can in its intangible state go through kurama.
Note that it has 2 states. One is when it is intangible and the other is when it becomes tangible
lol, I didn't read the thread you were referring to, but I can understand why didn't waste what you wrote.
few things:
1.Itachi susan'oo was crushed and he only survived due to his mirror.
2.Itachi's susano'o has no legs so it still got the same weakness as the one Gaara by-passed.
Dude itachi didnt activate susano's final form in time for karin, read the previous links i showed you.
Secondly a final susano doesnt have the weaknesses as an incomplete one. I know some people believe madara's is complete, but if you look it still has its ribcage and everything which hints that his also isnt complete
Very nice - all I can do is give this to you. While I feel my argument's valid there's more evidence against it than for it due to the databook and limited susanoo action we've seen from Itachi. Hopefully we'll see some more and I'll be able to make a more solid argument.
EDIT: Also keep in mind Itachi's susanoo has no legs, he is fully vulnerable to attacks from beneath.
EDIT2: "The yata mirror was able to block physical attacks;" just wanted to make it clear that I never said it couldn't, someone told me it was purely spiritual and in my arguments against it I may have made it sound like it couldn't block physical attacks but that was just to show it wasn't purely spiritual in nature.
Totaly Agree +rep dude and For the suasno My way of thinking is that since every jutsu has a weakness form 1 susano 1 weakness form 2 susanoo 1 weakness but in a other place from the first form susanoo so that means if the first form susanoo had a weakness from the legs example the second form susanoo doesn t have that weakness anymore instead it has a other weaknes. that means you have to brake the second weaknes and brake it then find the first form weakness and brake so if full susanoo has four forms you have to brake through all of them that means 4 points to break not sure if you got it
i agree, we didnt see itachi activate susano, until after kirin. But you see itachi said if it wasnt for this i would be dead. If he didnt tank it with susano, what did he tank it with, his body? xd.
Incomplete;
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After did we see itach becoming complete;
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He couldnt react fast enough to activate its full version. Its after did we see him activate it. I do agree that the sword itself isnt fast enough, atleast not against faster opponents but as i said the sword like any weapon is dependant on the user.
Also agree that we dont have enough evidence that susano, its final form can tank jinton, but an incomplete susano alone has shown us incredible durable feat, but also going by onoki and madara;s fight although we dont know exactly what happened apart from the winner who was a susano user.
He probably used a smaller version of Susanoo in conjunction with the Yamata mirror. There's no way in hell a V1 Susanoo tanked all that. There's been much weaker attacks than Kirin shown to damage Susanoo. For example, if Danzos wind blade was against a V1 Susanoo instead of 2 it would have been destroyed. I highly doubt that wind attack is stronger than Kirin.
He probably used a smaller version of Susanoo in conjunction with the Yamata mirror. There's no way in hell a V1 Susanoo tanked all that. There's been much weaker attacks than Kirin shown to damage Susanoo. For example, if Danzos wind blade was against a V1 Susanoo instead of 2 it would have been destroyed. I highly doubt that wind attack is stronger than Kirin.
I just showed you that he couldnt activate its final form to tank susano and its after did he activate a full susano.
Also note that if you look at the link i showed you, susano in its incomplete form doesnt have arms to hold the yata mirror or totsuka sword, but also everytime we have seen a final susano do we see the legendary weapons.
No hands;
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The legendary weapons clearly arent visible when we saw its incomplete form. Might say the yata mirror did aid it even if it is no where to be seen
The fight you speak of happened in naruto's mind. I dont take that seriously.
Secondly what im trying to tell you is that the totsuka sword which is a spiritual weapon is no different to the death god's hand. It can in its intangible state go through kurama.
Note that it has 2 states. One is when it is intangible and the other is when it becomes tangible
Dude itachi didnt activate susano's final form in time for karin, read the previous links i showed you.
Secondly a final susano doesnt have the weaknesses as an incomplete one. I know some people believe madara's is complete, but if you look it still has its ribcage and everything which hints that his also isnt complete
Totsuka has never been shown intangible
As long as Itachi stands on the ground the ground is still an opening and complete Susanoo while it doesn't have rib openings is open at its sides at Naruto and Sasuke could stand in it, the side is just an aura of chakra and this is also seen when Itachi needed Yata mirror to block Sasuke's attack from the front as the front is just an aura and the Susanoo looks like its behind and above Itachi.
Dude itachi didnt activate susano's final form in time for karin, read the previous links i showed you.
Secondly a final susano doesnt have the weaknesses as an incomplete one. I know some people believe madara's is complete, but if you look it still has its ribcage and everything which hints that his also isnt complete
Something called common sense bro. I know Itachi’s susano’o wastn’t its complete form, but he did use the mirror (why he survived).Look at how Kirin destroyed the Uchiha compound and how Itachi was burning shorty after with no Susano’o activated. Itachi's own words:
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Are you seriously telling me that you believe that ribcage susanoo tanked Kirin? Try re-think that for a sec.
Also not all the variations of the susano’o are the same and it solely depend on the user. Itachi’s version got no legs.
I just showed you that he couldnt activate its final form to tank susano and its after did he activate a full susano.
Also note that if you look at the link i showed you, susano in its incomplete form doesnt have arms to hold the yata mirror or totsuka sword, but also everytime we have seen a final susano do we see the legendary weapons.
No hands;
The legendary weapons clearly arent visible when we saw its incomplete form. Might say the yata mirror did aid it even if it is no where to be seen
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the weapons change in size? In other words they can be held by the user like normal weapons? Anyway, Itachi Saw Kirin with his Sharingan before it came down, it's more likely that seeing it slowed it down enough for him to use a bigger version of Susanoo. Not only that, unlike the Susanoo you showed, there are still versions of incomplete Susanoos that do have arms to hold the weapons.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the weapons change in size? In other words they can be held by the user like normal weapons? Anyway, Itachi Saw Kirin with his Sharingan before it came down, it's more likely that seeing it slowed it down enough for him to use a bigger version of Susanoo. Not only that, unlike the Susanoo you showed, there are still versions of incomplete Susanoos that do have arms to hold the weapons.
Change size? it doesnt say that and tbh im not sure how itachi found it, let alone attach it to susano, but no it doesnt say it changes size.
I agree itachi saw kirin, but he couldnt activate a full susano in time, no different to how he couldve activate a full susano in time against kabuto, note that kirin is extremely fast.
I did show you that the susano itachi's supposedly tanked kirin with had no arm, the link you showed me is more advanced version with still the legendary weapons are missing.. So far only time we have seen the legendary weapons is when its in its final stage
Totsuka has never been shown intangible
As long as Itachi stands on the ground the ground is still an opening and complete Susanoo while it doesn't have rib openings is open at its sides at Naruto and Sasuke could stand in it, the side is just an aura of chakra and this is also seen when Itachi needed Yata mirror to block Sasuke's attack from the front as the front is just an aura and the Susanoo looks like its behind and above Itachi.
Something called common sense bro. I know Itachi’s susano’o wastn’t its complete form, but he did use the mirror (why he survived).Look at how Kirin destroyed the Uchiha compound and how Itachi was burning shorty after with no Susano’o activated. Itachi's own words:
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Are you seriously telling me that you believe that ribcage susanoo tanked Kirin? Try re-think that for a sec.
Also not all the variations of the susano’o are the same and it solely depend on the user. Itachi’s version got no legs.
Atleast whilst you note that it wasnt incomplete what im saying is that there was neither legendary weapons in sight. ALso all the times we have seen the legendary weapons, is when susano is final.
Maybe he can use either weapons whilst susano is incomplete but has never shown us this :shrug:
Change size? it doesnt say that and tbh im not sure how itachi found it, let alone attach it to susano, but no it doesnt say it changes size.
I agree itachi saw kirin, but he couldnt activate a full susano in time, no different to how he couldve activate a full susano in time against kabuto, note that kirin is extremely fast.
I did show you that the susano itachi's supposedly tanked kirin with had no arm, the link you showed me is more advanced version with still the legendary weapons are missing.. So far only time we have seen the legendary weapons is when its in its final stage
Okay, let me ask you this. Why do you think Itachi can only use the Yata Mirror with full Susanoo? What's the reasoning behind it? Aside from it never being shown. I know that you know that Susanoo in it's purest form is just chakra manifested. So I don't see any reason as to why he couldn't use it in any form that has hands. The only logical explanation is that it uses more chakra. And if that's the case Itachi can probably use one arm like he's doing to protect Sasuke now, an carry the Mirror like that. Either way there is no freaking way that he survived Kirin with just a freaking rib-cage Susanoo. C'mon bro, seriously. lol
Okay, let me ask you this. Why do you think Itachi can only use the Yata Mirror with full Susanoo? What's the reasoning behind it? Aside from it never being shown. I know that you know that Susanoo in it's purest form is just chakra manifested. So I don't see any reason as to why he couldn't use it in any form that has hands. The only logical explanation is that it uses more chakra. And if that's the case Itachi can probably use one arm like he's doing to protect Sasuke now, an carry the Mirror like that. Either way there is no freaking way that he survived Kirin with just a freaking rib-cage Susanoo. C'mon bro, seriously. lol
At the bold part, because so far the only time ive seen either weapons is when its susano is complete. Tbh this thread wasnt about whether itachi tanked it with the yata mirror or not although neither weapons are in sight.
You are right though it might not have been able to tank kirin with just its incomplete form. Sasuke also tanked an array of combined attacks, whilst incomplete;
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Although all that combined attack is still inferior to kirin
I agreee. this is much more logical than the other thread. i really hate when people make claimes like "gaara can beat any uchiha" just because of what he did to madara. yeah you can troll, but dont be too idiotic. cant '+ rep' you atm, but once i can again i will. nice work.
At the bold part, because so far the only time ive seen either weapons is when its susano is complete. Tbh this thread wasnt about whether itachi tanked it with the yata mirror or not although neither weapons are in sight.
You are right though it might not have been able to tank kirin with just its incomplete form. Sasuke also tanked an array of combined attacks, whilst incomplete;
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Although all that combined attack is still inferior to kirin
Read a little bit past the bold part bro, I stated BESIDES the fact that it hasn't been shown. There's no real reason as to why he couldn't use those weapons in smaller versions of Susanoo considering it's all just manifested chakra. As a matter of fact look at this.
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This Susanoo is obviously not complete, but it was still able to use the Yata mirror.
Also, if you think about it there's a huge flaw with this entire theory. Kirin was coming from up above. Itachi's V1 Susanoo mainly protects the ribs, and almost nothing above it. So unless Itachi was laying on his back when Kirin landed I doubt that did anything. lol The version of Susanoo he used had to be something other than V1 to have worked. But I do agree with you to a point, there's a good chance he didn't use full Susanoo to survive that. So it's still a pretty good feat.
, that i didnt get to post because it was closed. After typing all that i had to post it somewhere xd
Firstly no jutsu is perfect and ive in fact rated tobi's ability to avoid attacks higher than itachi's susano.
First mistake was showing us an incomplete susano by other ninja's. In fact you have praised susano in you first paragraph. We have seen that it has taken kage level ninja's extreme difficulties to get past an incomplete susano and yet susano in its incomplete form still stands and is still protecting the user. This alone should tell you that susano even incomplete is one of the greatest defences in the show.
Also bare in mind that susano's defence goes up a level depending on its version. If kage level ninja's are struggling against its incomplete form, when its fully complete none of them, yes none of them will be able to get past it.
If you are talking about itachi's susano, at least you shouldve done the right thing and looked at itachi's incomplete susano's feat. Did you forget, or did you think nobody will mention it. Anyway itachi's incomplete susano protected him from kirin. Its v1 form alone was enough;
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Kirin is a far superior attack than any of Tsuande's chakra infused punches and kicks or the combination of A and onoki and yet itachi's incomplete susano stood. Kirin> Tsuande punch > A & onoki combo.
Next mistake was when you thought a complete susano has the same weaknesses as a final susano and again you are wrong.
If you look at any of the incomplete susano's version whether in v1 or v2 or v3 it doesnt protect the user from underneath, but also it has a ribcage (gaps).
V1 susano;
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Vulnerable underneath
V2;
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Vulnerable underneath
V3;
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Vulnerable underneath
Final form;
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If you see, susano's final form doesnt have a ribcage or the weaknesses that an incomplete one has
What causes blindness is more to do with tsukuyomi and amaterasu than susano. Susnao causes physical pain. Onoki was said to have fought madara in his prime and onoki still came out the lose. Dust releases clearly wasnt a factor. Do i believe dust release alone can obliterate a full susano? No. Damage it? Yes.
Now onto the legendary weapons assumtions. Firstly this is what the legendray weapons are described as;
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You talked about kg techniques. Firstly the legendary weapon are ETHEREAL WEAPONS, meaning intangible/no substanceless/spiritual. Now alot of people will say will it does have a physical nature and they are right, but thats because it can turn from a weapon that has no physical presence to one that has.
The yata mirror was able to block physical attacks;
Kept the hydra's in check with it;
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Explosive tags was useless;
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Sasuke's katana bounced off it;
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None of the attacks above were elementary. Onto elementary attacks, its been said that
it can change its element to subdue all elementary attacks and i quote "It is said to be endowed with all nature transformations and as such changes its own characteristics depending on those of the attack it receives, making the technique ineffective". Backed by Zetsu;
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Clearly this includes kg, but for you ill makes several examples.
Ice release is a kg, but you see if the yata mirror was to change to a fire element this kg would prove futile. Fire > ice
Lava release, is fire and earth. If the mirror was to change to water, this makes this kg hopeless. Water > lava
Wood release. Water and earth. If the mirror changes to lightning/fire this makes this attack useless. Lightning/fire > wood
Storm release, lightning and water. If the mirror changes to wind, this makes the attack useless.
You say if dust release was fired above. You see the yata mirror isnt stationary. If susano was to lift its hand and use the yata mirror to protect the user from above, then dust release is also a non factor.
Onto the Totsuka sword. The sword is also an ethereal weapon and infact is made of liquid, yes liquid which comes from the sake jar and i quote "It is sheathed in a sake jar; the blade is actually the liquid inside the gourd that is released and shaped, rather than a conventional sword". Even the manga backs this;
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Its after did it have a physical presence was it able to cut the heads of the hydra technique. Tbh im not sure how this is a weakness because even if lets say it didnt seal it, its clearly sharp enough to easily slice the heads of such giant snakes with one swoop. He easily cut through a human body. Also itachi couldve wanted to cut the heads off and not seal it, instead save that for oro. It does say anything it pierces though so ill give you the benefit of the doubt and say it has to pierce you to seal you, but id rather be sealed than get decapitated.
You then talk about its speed. Firstly a weapon is only as useless as its user and a legendary weapon is no different. Itachi has what it takes to fool an opponent either with a Karasu Bunshin no Jutsu or his genjutsu prowess. Although ill say that in both cases (oro and naagto), both were standing still, the totsuka sword still got them will relative ease and infact in both cases, they didnt know what hit them before it was too late. Oro was in the middle of his speech when he got impaled;
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Nagato had no idea what was going on and notice the exclamation mark and surprise on his face;
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You then claimed that the more chakra a user has the longer it takes to seal?. That is not only a wild assumption, its not a weakness. If you get impaled whether you have a monstrous chakra or not, you'll end up in the bottle.
The rennigan like the other 2 doujutsu can see chakra, but the reason why nagato couldnt see susano is because it was covered by smoke. The smoke you can say acts the same was as the Kirigakure no Jutsu (hidden mist), which blocks the sharigans view point;
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You then say the totsuka sword cannot seal a tailed beast, what prove do you have?, the answer is none. Now its my turn. The totsuka sword is no different from the Kohaku no Johei, which is another legendary weapon which sealed the 8 tails. If one legendary weapon can, i see no reason why another legendary sealing weapon cannot although that is the closest 'proof' we have that it can, but also what the DB says
Read a little bit past the bold part bro, I stated BESIDES the fact that it hasn't been shown. There's no real reason as to why he couldn't use those weapons in smaller versions of Susanoo considering it's all just manifested chakra. As a matter of fact look at this.
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This Susanoo is obviously not complete, but it was still able to use the Yata mirror.
Actually thats where you are wrong (sorry for the late reply btw). From what ive noticed, itachi has to activate a final susano before he can the weapons. It also seems that if he has activated a final susano he gains the weapons meaning even if susano reverts back to its previous stages it still has the weapons and if you go back to that page you uploaded, you'd see that he activated a final susano and had the weapons, but due to his illness/low chakra the susano reverted back a stage but stil maintained the weapons
The same susano in the link you showed me in no different to the susano he was using against kabuto and there was neither of the weapons in sight which further leads me to believe that its after youve achieved a fnal susano do the weapons appear
Also, if you think about it there's a huge flaw with this entire theory. Kirin was coming from up above. Itachi's V1 Susanoo mainly protects the ribs, and almost nothing above it. So unless Itachi was laying on his back when Kirin landed I doubt that did anything. lol The version of Susanoo he used had to be something other than V1 to have worked. But I do agree with you to a point, there's a good chance he didn't use full Susanoo to survive that. So it's still a pretty good feat.
Its not a flaw and i can understand why you'd think its a flaw. It you go back again to that page, you'd see that itachi's v2 stage which he used to tank susano, if you look at itachi the v2 susano wasnt enough and in fact his akatsuki uniform was completely incinerated, but also he was lying on the ground after the attack. V2 susano didnt fully tank kirin, he felt kirin but by that time susano had taken most of its impact
i agree + rep the only thing im uncertain on is did you say that the full version of susano isnt exsposed from underneath im not sure if it is or not but some people on this post have been saying that only the yata mirror and ribs can protect you from attacks and the rest of susano is just excess chakra. this is wrong as the chakra protects you has well shown in sasukes fight vs danzo when he used his wind attack from behind the susanos back chakra took the blow then ripped so no its not just the weapons the chakra protects you too
