Itachi's Seemingly Overlooked Genjutsu Prowess [Dusk Crow]

[Magatsu Izanagi]

I don't think so, evidently it does need some sort of eye or visual contact because otherwise he could have neg diffed Kabuto instead of using an eye for asspullanami

Izanami was intended more for plot purposes, rather than as "the only tech capable of beating Kabuto". It conveyed the message of accepting oneself through Kabuto's character.

Also, it actually symbolizes/references Izanagi's journey to Yomi and how he placed a boulder to block the passage between the underworld and the living world (Shinto mythology)

To sum it up, there's many reasons why Kishimoto used this technique to lead to Kabuto's downfall.

 

[BlazeRelease]

Izanami was intended more for plot purposes, rather than as "the only tech capable of beating Kabuto". It conveyed the message of accepting oneself through Kabuto's character.

Also, it actually symbolizes/references Izanagi's journey to Yomi and how he placed a boulder to block the passage between the underworld and the living world (Shinto mythology)

To sum it up, there's many reasons why Kishimoto used this technique to lead to Kabuto's downfall.

And yet people call it an asspull, they just don't understand it's significance.

 

[the last uchiha]

I don't think so, evidently it does need some sort of eye or visual contact because otherwise he could have neg diffed Kabuto instead of using an eye for asspullanami

remember they wanted to capture kabuto alive , itachi liked kabuto and didnt want to kill him after releasin edo. hence he's not guna use his best genjutsu which would end kabutos life

 

[Mellanoma]

I don't think so, evidently it does need some sort of eye or visual contact because otherwise he could have neg diffed Kabuto instead of using an eye for asspullanami

what hurts you the worse? The fact Kabuto lost so easily or the fact that Itachi controlled Kabuto like a small little pet

 

[Retsu]

So I'm guessing Kabuto isn't in IT then right?

 

[Retsu]

what hurts you the worse? The fact Kabuto lost so easily or the fact that Itachi controlled Kabuto like a small little pet

I love how you just ignored all of what I said, if you're not willing to really discuss anything then you can make like Michael Jackson and beat it, I'm not interested in going back and forth with you because of your emotional bond with Itachi.

 

[Retsu]

Izanami was intended more for plot purposes, rather than as "the only tech capable of beating Kabuto". It conveyed the message of accepting oneself through Kabuto's character.

Also, it actually symbolizes/references Izanagi's journey to Yomi and how he placed a boulder to block the passage between the underworld and the living world (Shinto mythology)

To sum it up, there's many reasons why Kishimoto used this technique to lead to Kabuto's downfall.

I never quite thought of that but it still feels like a deus ex machina moment. But I did enjoy what happened with Kabuto and his character tho.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

So I'm guessing Kabuto isn't in IT then right?

If the light didn't get past his eyelids then yes -_-

 

[BenjerminGaye]

So I'm guessing Kabuto isn't in IT then right?

If the light didn't get past his eyelids then yes -_-

 

[WalksInShadows]

i respect Itachi's abilities and all, but there's no need to be stark raving mad at others simply because his destiny was to merely be a role player in someone else's.

 

[Dantee]

It would solo Minato neg diff.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Many flaws in your premise:

1. Quoting wiki description with no back up source already proves that the jutsu is going by someone elses interpretation instead of Kishimoto. The description holds no water of proof.

2. This genjutsu is not even remotely close to Ephemeral (which wiki admitted that names doesn't even come from a canon source). Ephemeral requires a hand seal and finger contacting to the opponents sight. These 2 Genjutsu doesn't even have DB (these chapters came out for DB 3 era) which lead to the "wiki guy" to interpret it in some fashion that "probably" makes sense (which it doesn't).

Edo Itachi has already clear up some misunderstanding. For one we officially know that crows are Itachi's personal summoning[

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] so they aren't Genjutsu varieties.

Your evidence to prove that these "broken genjutsu" also just shows that you are just nitpicking context to make it seem that they are "broken"( cant blame you since it lacks sources of its capability). You said to differentiate real crows to genjutsu is by them leaving trails of feathers. The manga shows that real crows don't have to leave them[

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]. Even a fake crow can become a real weapon[

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].

Kabuto had knowledge of Itachi's genjutsu capability and he knew that his Genjutsu works just like how every Genjutsu works, simply using the opponents 5 senses as a medium. If these human senses are blocked then Genjutsu can't work, which is why Kabuto knew Itachi's main arsenal requires vision (and it has been). Izanagi was the only genjutsu that requires phyical senses and even that jutsu needed more requirements for it to work.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

We're* You used were for situations where it isn't grammatically correct.

I think you should of stuck with Haku or Kisame, seeing as there's already an absurd amount of wank on the Uchiha regardless of this, nice thread.

Would not read again, cause Itachi is dull. But a solid 7/10

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Another find is when Itachi used real crows [

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] and [

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][

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].

 

[Adobo]

Many flaws in your premise:

1. Quoting wiki description with no back up source already proves that the jutsu is going by someone elses interpretation instead of Kishimoto. The description holds no water of proof.

2. This genjutsu is not even remotely close to Ephemeral (which wiki admitted that names doesn't even come from a canon source). Ephemeral requires a hand seal and finger contacting to the opponents sight. These 2 Genjutsu doesn't even have DB (these chapters came out for DB 3 era) which lead to the "wiki guy" to interpret it in some fashion that "probably" makes sense (which it doesn't).

...Attemping to discredit me on matters that don't even hold much of a significance to the topic at hand... Truly a try hard post. The wiki quote was due to a lack of a DB description, and used solely to get a simple understanding of the jutsu. And never did I say anything about Ephemeral; the wiki made the comparison, as both jutsu seemingly don't require eye contact.

Pointless.

Edo Itachi has already clear up some misunderstanding. For one we officially know that crows are Itachi's personal summoning[

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] so they aren't Genjutsu varieties.

Doesn't change the fact that Itachi can and has used crows within his illusions that have nothing to do with summoning.

Your evidence to prove that these "broken genjutsu" also just shows that you are just nitpicking context to make it seem that they are "broken"( cant blame you since it lacks sources of its capability). You said to differentiate real crows to genjutsu is by them leaving trails of feathers. The manga shows that real crows don't have to leave them[

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]. Even a fake crow can become a real weapon[

You must be registered for see links

].

You must be registered for see images

Kabuto had knowledge of Itachi's genjutsu capability and he knew that his Genjutsu works just like how every Genjutsu works, simply using the opponents 5 senses as a medium. If these human senses are blocked then Genjutsu can't work, which is why Kabuto knew Itachi's main arsenal requires vision (and it has been). Izanagi was the only genjutsu that requires phyical senses and even that jutsu needed more requirements for it to work.

Solid point. However, this doesn't disprove the dusk crow genjutsu not requiring any obvious indication of it's casting; which is the whole point of this thread.

Another find is when Itachi used real crows [

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] and [

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][

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].

And I'm nitpicking, Lol. Kishi has included feathers every single time and even emphasized it

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and your over here providing very unclear scans as definite evidence.

Spoiler

There is way too many things going on and drawn on this page... but I can very easily just say these are feathers.

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[wael reda]

The fact that kabuto countered all itachi's ginjutsu (excluding izanami)by just closing his eye means that itachi all ginjutsu need eye contact except for izanami which causes losing the light in one of his eyes
All you say is based on nothing ,just fan fiction ,the same as FTC Lol

 

[Brother Numpsay]

...Attemping to discredit me on matters that don't even hold much of a significance to the topic at hand... Truly a try hard post. The wiki quote was due to a lack of a DB description, and used solely to get a simple understanding of the jutsu. And never did I say anything about Ephemeral; the wiki made the comparison, as both jutsu seemingly don't require eye contact.

Pointless.

The problem with us trying to understand how this justu works is also contradicting the manga, which is why it is very important to address this issue. For example the @bold claim.

Doesn't change the fact that Itachi can and has used crows within his illusions that have nothing to do with summoning.

True.

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Good find, and now what about the fake crow becoming real vs Bee, that I post?

Solid point. However, this doesn't disprove the dusk crow genjutsu not requiring any obvious indication of it's casting; which is the whole point of this thread.

Yes it does, both Sasuke and Itachi notice how Kabuto attempt to counter their genjutsu[

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]. Itachi knew that the only way to put him in a genjutsu is one that requires without eye contact[

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>

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].<-- link 3 should stop all your arguments but I rather continue.

And I'm nitpicking, Lol. Kishi has included feathers every single time and even emphasized it

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and your over here providing very unclear scans as definite evidence.

You made a statement of feathers being there by absolute. An absolute claim was debunked when I post fake birds becoming real vs Bee

Spoiler

There is way too many things going on and drawn on this page... but I can very easily just say these are feathers.

You must be registered for see images

This is a definite nitpick. As you mind as well circle all those pieces on the floor. Now you said real birds only leave feather around and yet when Kabuto was trapped in a genjutsu, left feathers too [

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][

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][

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]

In the end we have to conclude that Itachi two other jutsu requires eye contact.

Ephemeral = finger to opponets eye contact.
Dusk crow = Sharingan on the birds eye

 

[Adobo]

The problem with us trying to understand how this justu works is also contradicting the manga, which is why it is very important to address this issue. For example the @bold claim.

Contradicting the manga or your own opinion/intrepretation? As you haven't proven anything.

Good find, and now what about the fake crow becoming real vs Bee, that I post?

In the scenario with Bee; Itachi threw real shuriken's in reality, but it appeared as a crow to Bee because he was caught in a genjutsu... The crow was an illusion, the shurikens were real. What is your point?

Yes it does, both Sasuke and Itachi notice how Kabuto attempt to counter their genjutsu[

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]. Itachi knew that the only way to put him in a genjutsu is one that requires without eye contact[

You must be registered for see links

>

You must be registered for see links

].<-- link 3 should stop all your arguments but I rather continue.

No, it doesn't. In response to you and wael reda; before Kabuto even revealed his counter to all visual genjutsu; Itachi immediately stated that he would have to use Tsukiyomi [

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] in order to stop ET... Not just any genjutsu in his arsenal that can be broken by traditional means. Tsukiyomi in particular. His only variant of genjutsu aside from Izanami, that requires a very specific method(s) to break out, and thus would of allowed Itachi to accomplish the same feat of stopping Kabuto and his ET as he did with Izanami. Itachi knew any standard genjutsu that could of easily been broken out of by Kabuto wouldn't of worked, which is why it had to be either Tsukiyomo or Izanami. The former being his first choice for obvious reasons. So your argument stating: Itachi didn't opt in using the dusk crow genjutsu when Kabuto blocked his vision, thus the genjutsu must require eye contact, doesn't really hold any weight; as any genjutsu aside from Tsukiyomi and Izanami was never a viable option.

You made a statement of feathers being there by absolute. An absolute claim was debunked when I post fake birds becoming real vs Bee

...

Already addressed this. The birds were an illusion, the shuriken were reality. Bee saw crows when he was in the genjutsu, then saw shuriken when the Hachibi broke him out.

This is a definite nitpick. As you mind as well circle all those pieces on the floor. Now you said real birds only leave feather around and yet when Kabuto was trapped in a genjutsu, left feathers too [

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][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]

In the end we have to conclude that Itachi two other jutsu requires eye contact.

Ephemeral = finger to opponets eye contact.
Dusk crow = Sharingan on the birds eye

And what's to say it's not? A feather shaped object colored the same as a crow... laying on top of the surface, clearly darker then the ground, stalagmite, and everything else around it. Couldn't possibly be just a crevice, either. Actually, the fact that there were feathers on the floor in the genjutsu when Kishi actually focused on it and emphasised it, implies there had to be some on the floor in reality, as Izanami was simply perfectly replicating reality in Kabuto's mind. And I believe you misunderstood. I never said crows couldn't leave feathers within a genjutsu. I said the feathers falling from the crows within a genjutsu, shouldn't be there in reality after the genjutsu is broken... like in the the scenario with Naruto.

In the end, you haven't proven anything.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Contradicting the manga or your own opinion/intrepretation? As you haven't proven anything.

Contradicting the manga as it was already broke down how genjutsu works[

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]. While you are going by wiki interpretation with no source to back it up.

So no its you who had the burden of proof to begin with.

No, it doesn't. In response to you and wael reda; before Kabuto even revealed his counter to all visual genjutsu; Itachi immediately stated that he would have to use Tsukiyomi [

You must be registered for see links

] in order to stop ET... Not just any genjutsu in his arsenal that can be broken by traditional means. Tsukiyomi in particular. His only variant of genjutsu aside from Izanami, that requires a very specific method(s) to break out, and thus would of allowed Itachi to accomplish the same feat of stopping Kabuto and his ET as he did with Izanami. Itachi knew any standard genjutsu that could of easily been broken out of by Kabuto wouldn't of worked, which is why it had to be either Tsukiyomo or Izanami. The former being his first choice for obvious reasons. So your argument stating: Itachi didn't opt in using the dusk crow genjutsu when Kabuto blocked his vision, thus the genjutsu must require eye contact, doesn't really hold any weight; as any genjutsu aside from Tsukiyomi and Izanami was never a viable option.

Except Itachi disagrees with you[

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] so there is no arugment that Itachi has other genjutsu up his leaves that doesn't require the 5 senses.

And what's to say it's not? A feather shaped object colored the same as a crow... laying on top of the surface, clearly darker then the ground, stalagmite, and everything else around it. Couldn't possibly be just a crevice, either. Actually, the fact that there were feathers on the floor in the genjutsu when Kishi actually focused on it and emphasised it, implies there had to be some on the floor in reality, as Izanami was simply perfectly replicating reality in Kabuto's mind. And I believe you misunderstood. I never said crows couldn't leave feathers within a genjutsu. I said the feathers falling from the crows within a genjutsu, shouldn't be there in reality after the genjutsu is broken... like in the the scenario with Naruto.

No evidence in that pic remotely even close to being feathers, just you want to imagine it. Then you completely ignore they were more then one birds flapping feathers around Kabuto and even with that picture of you nitpicking them, should have been more then 1 pieces falling from the ground. And no it isn't Izanami yet in my first example as Izanami needs to work by replicating twice. So the feathers weren't there in reality either vs Kabuto.

In the end, you haven't proven anything.

In the end you are being very arrogant and ignorant about these 2 genjutsu. You would rather believe an interpretation that has no back up to prove that these 2 genjutsu works much like Izanami, when Itachi already says only Izanami genjutsu works like this in his arsenal. Which also requires to exchange losing his eye sight. And now your telling me he has something that DOESNT need any sacrifices to break the law of genjutsu and he has these 2 genjutsu with him the whole time that could of worked on Kabuto without needing to blind himself? Lol stop this non sense belief.

 

[AlphaScythian]

"And as you may or may not know, the very first step in even attempting to break out of a genjutsu is realizing you're in one; which would be nearly impossible in this scenario. Aside from a very few [Experienced Dōjutsu users, Perfect Jinchūriki, and elite level Sensors] no one is safe from this."

Well isnt top 10 comprised of doujutsu users sensors and both?