Itachi vs Zabuza and current Kakashi

[LustyLover]

That's different from using Multiple. He never used them at the same time.

Multiple shadow clones involve using it at the same time and dividing it equally among the clones. I already showed a scan of Tobirama and Hashirama being able to use high level techniques but still not being able to create more than 2(Tobi) and 6(Hashi)

Btw who says that was a clone confronting Naruto before his fight with Sasuke?
He says I have something important to do...and also gives him some of his powers

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. Don't think a clone would be doing that

Hashirama and Tobirama were restricted by Edo Tensei. They even commented on how surprised they were that they could use so little. If Itachi has the chakra to create three he can create three.

It was a clone. Itachi ordered it to make the hand seal to disperse back into crows after the Genjutsu ended; it was a crow clone. Why are you showing me a scan of Gai fighting Madara again? That's like 400 chapters away from what we're talking about.

 

[LuckyMan]

That's not the point I was trying to convey. It's when someone says that an S-Class ninja cannot make more than two clones that I begin to become a bit agitated. Not that it matters. One would be enough to open a hole big enough for him to finish them.

So I should assume everyone in Akatsuki could possibly make well over a thousand clones too because they are all S-rank and all have higher stamina than Itachi?

 

[LustyLover]

So I should assume everyone in Akatsuki could possibly make well over a thousand clones too because they are all S-rank and all have higher stamina than Itachi?

I'm just curious as to how people can genuinely be serious by saying that Itachi can only use one Bunshin simply because he hasn't showed the creation of more. Do you truly believe this as well?

 

[Haizaki]

Hashirama and Tobirama were restricted by Edo Tensei. They even commented on how surprised they were that they could use so little. If Itachi has the chakra to create three he can create three.

This doesn't change the fact that they could use high level techniques like Mokujin, Suidanha and Ftg but still couldn't create more.

It was a clone. Itachi ordered it to make the hand seal to disperse back into crows after the Genjutsu ended; it was a crow clone. Why are you showing me a scan of Gai fighting Madara again? That's like 400 chapters away from what we're talking about.

That scan with Gai was an accident

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This is the scan. Where did you get the bold from?

 

[Haizaki]

I'm just curious as to how people can genuinely be serious by saying that Itachi can only use one Bunshin simply because he hasn't showed the creation of more. Do you truly believe this as well?

No one said that. I'm curious to how you believe he can use Dozens and Hundreds because he's and S Rank ninja Lol

We said he hasn't shown feats of creating more than 2..How then would we conclude he can use such an amount?

 

[LuckyMan]

Taju Bunshins? No. Regular Shadow Clones? Yes.

I'm just curious as to how people can genuinely be serious by saying that Itachi can only use one Bunshin simply because he hasn't showed the creation of more. Do you truly believe this as well?

No. Don't get me wrong I perfectly understand your point of view. That's like saying Jiraiya can only use one shadow clone since he's only been shown to use one at a time. Or Minato, all he has showed is the use of a single clone at a time.

The difference with Itachi and those two is that they have unusual big chakra, so much that their chakra acts as like a gravitational pull and can pull in natural energy for them to enter SM. Itachi does not have big chakra and while its quite foolish to believe he can only make 1, its extremely foolish to think he can make several and still be able to use jutsu because his chkara will be spread out so thinly he might wont have enough to do so.

 

[LustyLover]

No one said that. I'm curious to how you believe he can use Dozens and Hundreds because he's and S Rank ninja Lol

We said he hasn't shown feats of creating more than 2..How then would we conclude he can use such amount.

Well jesus christ Evani, I suppose since we've never seen feats of Hagoromo being able to walk on water we MUST conclude that he cannot. And okay, sure, he cannot create thousands or hundreds, but he sure can create an amount sufficient enough to blow back the mist.

 

[Haizaki]

Well jesus christ Evani, I suppose since we've never seen feats of Hagoromo being able to walk on water we MUST conclude that he cannot. And okay, sure, he cannot create thousands or hundreds, but he sure can create an amount sufficient enough to blow back the mist.

You can call Jesus how many times you want. It doesn't change the fact that he can't use multiple clones.

Once again,

- Kiba can use shadow clones but he can't use multiple. Do you see anyone giving him feats of being able to use multiple clones ?
- Naruto was a Genin and could use Multiple shadow clone meanwhile some Chunnins and Genins can't do it. Your assumption is very funny. Just because Itachi is an S Rank shinobi? Lol
- The Tobirama and Hashirama examples were just ignored
- I've shown you flames and explosives being used in the mist yet you're still bring up this example.
- Hagoromo example doesn't relate to this. Irrelevant

 

[LustyLover]

That scan with Gai was an accident

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This is the scan. Where did you get the bold from?

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It's a clone.

 

[Haizaki]

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It's a clone.

The same one that went for Sasuke..so no it wasn't 3 in then end.

 

[LustyLover]

You can call Jesus how many times you want. It doesn't change the fact that he can't use multiple clones.

Once again,

- Kiba can use shadow clones but he can't use multiple. Do you see anyone giving him feats of being able to use multiple clones ?
- Naruto was a Genin and could use Multiple shadow clone meanwhile some Chunnins and Genins can't do it. Your assumption is very funny. Just because Itachi is an S Rank shinobi? Lol
- The Tobirama and Hashirama examples were just ignored
- I've shown you flames and explosives being used in the mist yet you're still bring up this example.
- Hagoromo example doesn't relate to this. Irrelevant

- Kiba doesn't possess Itachi's chakra reserves or control.
- They weren't at full power. They used their high ranking techniques prior to establishing their clones. Who's to say they weren't finished regenerating their chakra before they made their clones?
- You've shown me flames and explosives ten times smaller than the ones I showed you.
- Actually, it does, it proves that the entire foundation of your argument relies on a baseless assumption.

I can play the exact same game as you. Itachi hasn't been shown to be UNABLE to make a certain amount of clones, so until you show me him visibly admitting to have a limit to the number of clones he can make, he can make the amount I state. Lol the logic is ludicrous, but if you want to use it, by all means, go ahead. I can too.

 

[LustyLover]

The same one that went for Sasuke..so no it wasn't 3 in then end.

Lol show me a manga scan proving this then. The clone dissipated. It can't be the same one.

 

[LustyLover]

This is the logic you are using

Itachi never went all out

Itachi never pushed himself to the max of his abilities

PS is within Itachi's abilities as he had MS and full susanoo like Madara, Sasuke

Show me manga showing he did not have it.

Thoughts?

"Since we never saw him..."

"Since he didn't use more than two he cannot", but at the same time he never showed that two was his limit. You act as if everything needs a hard manga scan to be correct, but that's truly not the case. You say that since you haven't seen him use more he won't be able to, but at the same time you haven't seen him be unable to use more so he can. This way of thinking can go on forever but it's simply a terrible way to think.

 

[Haizaki]

- Kiba doesn't possess Itachi's chakra reserves or control.
-They weren't at full power. They used their high ranking techniques prior to establishing their clones. Who's to say they weren't finished regenerating their chakra before they made their clones?
- You've shown me flames and explosives ten times smaller than the ones I showed you.
- Actually, it does, it proves that the entire foundation of your argument relies on a baseless assumption.

I can play the exact same game as you. Itachi hasn't been shown to be UNABLE to make a certain amount of clones, so until you show me him visibly admitting to have a limit to the number of clones he can make, he can make the amount I state. Lol the logic is ludicrous, but if you want to use it, by all means, go ahead. I can too.

Stopped reading after bold
You're really arguing for the sake of it. Tobi and Hashi after using clones could still use high level techniques but yet couldn't use clones even though they had more chakra . Meaning there's a limit. They weren't at full power and the height Tobi could use was 2...The height Hashi could use was 6 even though they were almost at full power

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but still they was a limit to clones even though they could use high level techniques and could still spam techniques even after using clones. Common sense would say if it was just chakra that enables you to use multiple clones, then there shouldn't be a limit to how many clones they could use in that situation seeing they could use high level techniques that require more chakra after that. Surely that chakra they were using afterwards should be more than enough to use more clones but I wonder why they couldn't? Lol You're just playing difficult.

The one coming up with baseless assumption is the one that denies fire and explosives being used in the mist and not being able to dispel despite being shown scans of nothing hinting they do. Despite being proven wrong about Itachi being able to use hundreds and Dozens of clones
The one that's using terrible logic is the one who doesn't know the Rinnegan can't see chakra :vincent: . Seeing as you're coming up with funny stuff, I'm not surprised. Your theory on how Itachi can use Multiple shadow clones doesn't make sense. Who told you Kiba doesn't have high chakra reserves? Talk about baseless assumption.

Lol show me a manga scan proving this then. The clone dissipated. It can't be the same one.

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"I have something more important to do"

Well take a look again, you'll know it can

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Itachi's crows can form back to a clone.

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Servants(Crows) gather to create human form and not forms to serve their master

 

[Haizaki]

This is the logic you are using



"Since we never saw him..."

"Since he didn't use more than two he cannot", but at the same time he never showed that two was his limit. You act as if everything needs a hard manga scan to be correct, but that's truly not the case. You say that since you haven't seen him use more he won't be able to, but at the same time you haven't seen him be unable to use more so he can. This way of thinking can go on forever but it's simply a terrible way to think.

Is that so? Ok everyone in the whole manga can use Multiple shadow clones since it just involves just chakra. That's why Gaara who can also use a sand clone was surprised when Naruto used soo much..Gaara has a large chakra pool..I wonder why he was surprised.

 

[LustyLover]

Stopped reading after bold
You're really arguing for the sake of it. Tobi and Hashi after using clones could still use high level techniques but yet couldn't use clones even though they had more chakra . Meaning there's a limit. They weren't at full power and the height Tobi could use was 2...The height Hashi could use was 6 even though they were almost at full power

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but still they was a limit to clones even though they could use high level techniques and could still spam techniques even after using clones. Common sense would say if it was just chakra that enables you to use multiple clones, then there shouldn't be a limit to how many clones they could use in that situation seeing they could use high level techniques that require more chakra after that. Surely that chakra they were using afterwards should be more than enough to use more clones but I wonder why they couldn't? Lol You're just playing difficult.

Not if they regenerated after their clones were made.

The one coming up with baseless assumption is the one that denies fire and explosives being used in the mist and not being able to dispel despite being shown scans of nothing hinting they do. Despite being proven wrong about Itachi being able to use hundreds and Dozens of clones

Where have I been proven wrong? You showed me no manga evidence of Itachi not being able to use more than two.

The one that's using terrible logic is the one who doesn't know the Rinnegan can't see chakra :vincent: . Seeing as you're coming up with funny stuff, I'm not surprised. Your theory on how Itachi can use Multiple shadow clones doesn't make sense. Who told you Kiba doesn't have high chakra reserves? Talk about baseless assumption.

I'm curious, tell me; where does logic overlap with me forgetting whether or not the Rinnegan can see chakra? That's right. It doesn't.

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"I have something more important to do"

This proves nothing.

Well take a look again, you'll know it can

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Itachi's crows can form back to a clone.

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Servants(Crows) gather to create human form and not forms to serve their master

You literally just proved me right with that scan. Itachi used chakra once on the crows to form the clone but it dissipated back into crows because it no longer had Itachi's chakra. Itachi again used chakra the next time he used the clone meaning he used two.

 

[Haizaki]

Oh my goodness... Regenerating after the clones were made when they had infinite chakra somehow relates to the fact they couldn't use it while they had inifinte chakra? I'm sure that makes sense Lol. That's irrelevant when almost at full power, Tobirama could use only 2. Hashirama almost at full power could use 6.

"That proves nothing" Denying it because it proves you wrong is another story. To support it was the same clone, aside from the fact that it said a human form (and the crow clone also said he has something more important to do).. You can see in that DB Page that it shows The crow clone talking to Naruto and it being with Sasuke implying that it was the same clone. Then again, You're telling me that Itachi summoned the crows twice or he summoned them at the same time in 2 different locations? Smh.

I proved you right with that scan?? I wish I did. The crows are summonings..He can summon a certain amount (more than a dozen)...that amount which is more than a dozen of crows,create a human form.."Servants gather to from a human form".. ...He can't use 2 at at he same time...He can create a clone at a time via the crows..That's why it says there "By using the Crows a medium, he uses less chakra than shadow clone requires"

Notice how it uses a singular term when it comes to clones and this is for his case. Creating Dozens and Hundreds is speculation.

I know you want the last word anyways. You talk about me not showing you manga evidence of Itachi not being able to use more than 2 meanwhile you've constantly failed to show he can Lol.

 

[Inert Brian]

@Evani

Some times common sense should take part in a vs thread, feats can only go so far in determining who would win in a fight. It is a canon fact Itachi fights through intelligence, not brute force. He only needs 1-2 clones to come up with a strategy, hence that's why he does it.

Part 1 Kakashi was able to create this many shadow clones, the same guy that passed out using the Sharigan.

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@Holyeyes

Itachi doesn't use tons of clones, it's not part of his fighting strategies. He only uses 1-2 clones. Hebi Sasuke, and Part 1 Kakashi fights are examples of this.

 

[Haizaki]

@Evani

Some times common sense should take part in a vs thread, feats can only go so far in determining who would win in a fight. It is a canon fact Itachi fights through intelligence, not brute force. He only needs 1-2 clones to come up with a strategy, hence that's why he does it.

Part 1 Kakashi was able to create this many shadow clones, the same guy that passed out using the Sharigan.

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.

Yeah and you're clearly not using it

If multiple clones go by just chakra alone, I wonder why Kakashi who was low on chakra after even using his Raikiri could still use Lol?

Why then would Gaara be surprised at the fact that Naruto could use Multiple when he himself had a large Chakra pool and showed the ability to use clones?

This Itachi wank is blinding you guys if you believe he can use Multiple clones. I won't waste my time anymore..The again, Please tell me the essence of this post? What were you trying to disprove? Itachi fights with intelligence? Ok, Maybe his opponents here are tooooo dumb for him smh.

 

[Haizaki]

Even Kakashi who asides Naruto has been shown to use Multiple clones technique openly said he can't use shadow clones as well as Naruto because he knows the effects on the user

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Kakashi despite using a lot of chakra, could still use Multiple shadow clones and that's farrr more than what Hashirama and Tobirama could use when they were almost at full power. You possibly cannot tell me Kakashi at that that point had more chakra than those 2 so that's why he could use more clones when we saw the kind of techniques they were using as Edos.