fugaku basiclaly gave up when he learnt itachi had betrayed them and was killing them off.
so why wouldnt he surrender/let himself die if the leaf surrounded him and demanded they give up or die?
fugaku clearly counted on itachis support for this plan to succeed. losing it meant the jig was up.
what, because hiruzen didnt offer him the right things?
we dont know what was said in the negotiations.
hiruzen could have offered to step down as hokage and instil an uchiha in his place.
what, because shisui says so? he doesnt know everything about human nature then or his clan. the clan was scared revolutionaries who seemingly gave up once they learnt itachi turned on them.
its human nature to want to give up when things look bad for you. the leaf may need to surround the compound and kill the ringleaders to avert it but avert it they will do. uchihas simply needed to be made ot understand they cant win and have no way out of this.
wrong. no casualties. as ive said before, the ambush in the dead of night was always going to happen. either by hiruzen and danzo, or by itachi and obito.
the leaf can wrap this up in one night.
either by surrounding uchihas and taking out the ringleaders, or by killing off the top rung of fighters, leaving only the weakened demolished rebels.
but in no way was it necessary to kill every single one of them.
the result of uchiha massacre leaves konoha weakened and suspecible as well. which every itachi apologist conveniantly forgets and ignores.
the best course of action is obviously absolutley minimal loss of life. which is not possible as long as psychos like itachi and danzo make the decisions.
if they are agressive they wont wait for konoha to be weakened. theyll just attack. and OH WAIT THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SAND VILLAGE
sure they will with the right forceful approach.
WHAT WAS THE POINT OF COVERING IT UP THEN. just tell the truth and see how the world treats them for doing this warcrime atrocity.
if its a world of shinobi and shit like this happens all the time, then why were they so protective of "uchiha clans honor" and hiding the truth that they tried to rebel?
which doesnt exist as 99% of all uchihas are nice people just forced into a conflict situation.
only madara, of every pre konoha uchiha, went totally mangekeyo crazy. meaning tobiramas rumours are unfounded.
which was only as a result of the manipulations of itachi and orochimaru you fool.
sasuke needed several years of heavy abuse and loneliness before snapping and going insane.
so you kill an entire clan just so they wont POSSIBLY IN THE FUTURE become threats? you dont see anything wrong with that? you already committed genocide. your the monster, not them.
theres every point in doign so. how can you wage war on konoha with no fighters? the coup ends when the fighters lives or freedom end. prison or murder. either way.
we dont know what the clans thoughts on this were. maybe they knew something about danzo no one else knew and thought this was the only card they had to play.
maybe fugaku really was an evil person and was bullying/blackmailing half the clan into going along with it.
maybe he himself was being manipulated by obito.
so you kill people just for being informed about a rebellion? thats nice of you.im sure your a benevolent ruler.
im sure the uchihas thought the same thing.
13 year old itachi had many ways he could avoid this disaster and preferred instead to not think for himself at all despite his "hokage level mind" and didnt even try to organise a peace treaty.
unless itachi gets off his ass and stops danzo the psychopath. or suggest to hiruzen that he just surrender and step down as hokage, to instil itachi as the new one.
no they didnt.
according to danzo, if itachi did nothing, danzo would just do it himself. fugaku had no way out of this unless hiruzen or itachi convinced danzo to hold off on the attack.
also the genocide will encourage nations to see konoha as weakened, eventually leading to oro's invasion.
hiruzen was too stubborn to think of any other way to do so.
a character saying something was inevitable doesnt mean they are smart or correct for doing so.
only that they are too stupid to think of other options, which existed.
literally all they have to do is just let uchihas have the political power they wanted. step down as hokage, put fugaku in his place. crisis over. if they stil try something then you can go ahead with the assassination plan.
but by no means should it be your first or second choice.
false. no it wold not have. you keep overestimating uchihas when they were beaten so easily and could have easily been made to surrender once they lsot their ringleaders
and he chooses to have them be fukin stupid
no it wont. this is completely impossible and absurd.restore what? what name? the name of the guys who committed centuries of death and war under manipulation by zetsu? the senju dogs who defected to a corrupt regime?
itachis methods were monstrous and he had thousands of options, all of which he ignored in favour of butchering hundreds of people and starting the possible world war that could follow as a result of konoha losing half of its strongest fighters in a bloody brutla massacre.
he did bad shit for the worst goals possible. he would have the world burn if konoha could be king of the ashes. hes completely evil and sociopathic and is fine with letting obito murder thousands of people and obtain nukes as long as konohas not touched.
psychopath in terms of ensuring maximum loss of life and starting a surefire world war via aiding obito in murdering jins for no reason,
and the massacre did not prevent a war, it only convinced orochimaru that the village was ripe for attack within a few years.
he had to make sure that konha and the uchihas are both annhilated by orochimaru given he let orochimaru live for no reason, did nothing to stop danzo for no reason and brutally tortured sasuke ot madness for no reason
the options were
false dictomy.
you think there are only two options because you refuse to use your god given brain to think of more.
in anything in life, there are thousands of roads you can go down. THOUSANDS of choices. thats why i believe in the multiverse theory. in one universe, itachi did choose some other option that saved his clan and nation both.
and btw this will happen either way.
the other villages dont need konoha to be weakened to attack it, and massacring half your strongest fighters, weakened the whole village. orochimaru picked up on this and invaded a few years later.
so itachi stopped nothing. the war happened.
itachi wasnt given any peaceful option. it was either your clan dies or risk the destruction of the whole leaf. itachi is only a soldier and had no way of preventing this
yes he was.
itachi is suposed to have genius level intellect and had many ways of forcing a better situation and saving lives. one of which is to simply only kill the uchiha ringleaders then have him and his anbu surround uchihas, demanding that they surrender in exchange for the captured and killed ringleaders. there. crisis over.
or, he can do what happened anyway, and take the blame for killing people but only this time, kill the elders as well as the uchiha ringleaders, then instill shisui as the new leader of both.
destruction of the leaf could happen as a result of the massacre as well. the massacre does not prevent konha being weakened. it causes it to be weakened
the whole theme of the uchihas barring madara is they are willing to compromise and submit to greater power. they deserted madara to join hashirama, being tired of all the bloody conflict.
fugaku was driven to rebellion after many years of bad blood and abuse. there is no jealousy. its righteous revolution vs corruption. not once did we ever get the impression that uchihas in that time were evil psycho maniacs.
strict, yes, jaded yes. but not evil.
which can stil happen regardless if they kill off a whole clan of their strongest fighters. oh wait it did happen.the sand did try to swoop in and kill them.
wrong. they were about to be massacred. either by itachi or by danzo. what inevitably leads to deaths is massacring people. what severely damages the village is murdeirng a whole clan.
the best option is one that kills no one and creates total peace.
if konoha surrendering is the only way to achieve that goal, so be it. im sure their pride isnt so huge that they cant do that.
also do you think that the american revolution should have been stopped with one night of murdering? after all it was a country wide conflict and thousands if not millions died.
clearly washington should ahve been slain by a british asssasin. thats obviously what you believe.
some wars need ot be fought to get rid of injustice and bad government.
by doing what he did, itachi caused hundreds of needless casualties even though they could have resolved this peacefully, caused a threat to the village by letting danzo get away with genocide, and set a precedent that any government can slaughter their own people including women and kids just because of a percieved threat as the first option rather than doing a deal for peace first.
and by leaving sasuke alive and torturing him to madness, all itachi did was take one threat out and create another in its place.
false. after letting the war happen, genocide is just the second worst option, not the best.neither should be considered or carried out.
konoha prefered genocide over meetings to negotiate a proper deal. i dont know what was said, but obviously they could placate the uchihas by simply giving them the power that they would gain in a coup. unless konoha wants a war.
they werent angels but they were in righteous revoution vs a corrupt leader and his cronies, and claim power over a village thats poorly led and abusive to its own clans
because its 100 uchiha fighters vs tens of thousands of jounins and chunins.
basic battle tactics is to cut the head off the snake, and once uchiah ringleaders are gone, they will see the siutations hopeless and surrender.
or have itachi kill off the "most powerful clan" by destroying its top fighters. you cant be a most powerful clan with no powerful guys in it.
BECAUSE ITS A CLAN. not an army. not the army. a tight knit family of about a hundred people.
their only hope was a covert coup.
are you seriously using madara as an example of an average uchiha?
but a group of hundreds of 3 tomoe users won't cause a serious impact on konoha? T
so wait...you fanboy about how the uchihas are sooo strong and soooo powerful and will easily destroy half the village in a civil war.
yet your ok with KILLING THEM ALL even though this will convince the other nations that konoha isnt even good enough to protect its own strongest clan? the massacre removed half of konohas best fighters going by what your saying, which willl convince others to invade as easily as a war will.
THEY DIDNT HAVE THEIR STRONGEST CLAN. how is it at full power?
more proof that the enemies of konoha do not need it to be in a state of civil strife to want to destroy it.
no one would give a shit. no one gave a shit after the kyuubi and oro attacks.
when pain attacked, he would ahve done so even if there WASNT any death of hriuzen 2 years ago.
or he can not lose any of his own people, and just swipe hinata when the hyuugas are fighting uchihas.
raikage loves his people and wouldnt send them in and risk uniting konoha against him.
easiest way to unite a country is to invade them with a foreign force.
and it was the konoha massacre. it just happened a few years later, and was only stopped from begin any worse by naruto defeating gaara and the sand jounins being beaten back.
moreover, it still doesnt change the fact that itachi did help cause the oro and pain invasions and the world war.
if he didnt kill the uchiha, danzo would do the massacre himself and kill all the sleeping jounins. and probably use this opportunity to kill hiruzen too.
he had the choice of stop all bloodshed and save his clan and village both, or do something morally horrible to take many lives. he chose the ltter.
he didnt prevent anything because the war he wanted to stop happened anyway when the sand vilage attacked them.
well its proof itachi doesnt like to use his "hokage level brain"
do you prefer 50 dead to no one dying/2 or 3 dead?
reasons dont matter.
our world would look upon massacring a group of terrorists as morally reprehensible if done i the night like filthy rats and then scapegoating a soldier for it.
if its righteous why didnt they admit to it.
the uchihas were the heroes wanting righteous revolution. like george washington and the alliance in star wars.
itachi followed a corrupt imperialistic murderous regime, and helped them cover up their atrocity. if uhcihas were evil then why not admit to doing it.
so you would have killed all the founding fathers of USA given the chance?
you would have massacred the ringleaders of the south in 1860?
you would have killed off all of the people fighting against hitler inside germany at the time?
if itachis looking at the bigger picture and doing it for the right reasons why didnt he just tell the truth? why did he devote so much time to wanting to die for waht he did at sasukes hand?
obviously there were ways out and itachi refused to think of them.
better that no one die at all, yet itachi insisted that he massacre his family.
i think slaughtering people because you judge them as gulty is worse than finding a better less blood drenched solution. he did not have to perform the massacre.
he prevented nothing. uchihas were gonna die either way. and if they werent then it still remains that he could have stopped it with a better plan/solution that saved his familys lives. yet his "hokage levle" brain couldnt think of anything?
so you think that someone who supports the british in american war of independence and massacres the founding fathers is a hero and they were the terrorists planning on killing ciuntless families?
it sets a dangerous idea that you can have any corrupt government stay in power by massacring anyone who tries to depose them.
also if itachis actions are heroic and prevented a war then why not admit to it. why did hiruzen cover it up.
if itachi didnt do it, danzo would have,a nd the outcome would eb the same exact thing but with sasuke dead as well.
thje biggest flaw with this is that itachi does not believe in "killing the few to save the many" and "if i dont do it the outcome is worse than if i do it".
he proved this when he didnt kill danzo. or obito. or orochimaru. or kabuto. or go hunting for the missing nins that are always killing peopel in the world or overthrow yagura. or overthrow 4th kazekage. he DOESNT GIVE A SHIT.
tywin assured walder that walder can get away with it ,much like how the elders assured hiruzen that hiruzen will get away with it if he gives the order.tywins reasoning was that killing 300 people at dinner is better than killing the starks in a massive siege or battle.
danzo and itachi did what they did to start a world war and kill millions of innocent people. given that the other nations have no reason to not invade after konoha loses its most powerful clan.
had it not been for naruto defeating gara, gaara and orochimaru would have destroyed the hidden leaf.
all because their most powerful sharingan clan had been killed off beforehand, when danzo and itachi easily could have saved their lives with a more peaceful solution.
just because you decide on genocide as the best option deosnt mean it is.
and you forget that itachi didnt care at all about protecting the village from threats using this method anyway.
name one villain itachi killed after he defeated fugaku and mikoto. just one. ill wait.
which doesnt justify killing them all. jsut him.
itachi slaughtered the strongest clan in the village needlessly and brutally, which encouraged 4th akzekage to want to attack and wipe out everyone.
itachis methods of "taking care" of threats is exactly how evil regimes in our world act.
if he hadnt taken action, then someone else would have destroyed uchihas, sasuke included. he just wanted to save his brother
and like i said, he has the option to prevent greater bloodshed thousands of times throughout his life yet fugaku, his father is the LAST PERSON HE WILL EVER DEFEAT.
the last!
he will never go on to kill off some marauding band of missing ninjas.
he will never overthrow yaguras regime.
he will never find a way to stop obito.
so how can you say that itachi believes in that kind of logic when he neevr followed it a day in his life? killing uchihas was orders. and from that day on, he ignored orders.
this was done because konoha is brutla corrupt and genocidla and wants to kill as many people as possible under the guise of "its necessary lol".
thye could have resolved this with absoltuely no one dying at all. itachi just was too stupid and bloodthirsty to do so.
itachi wanted to exterminate konoha and destroy it. to this end he removed its strongest fighters first, and then let danzo go for no reason, then helped obito kill off konohas strongest allies in order to start a world war and kill millions of people.
itachis one of the worst villains in NV. responsibel for countless deaths.
if itachi didnt klill his clan, then he could have found a better less murderous solution and saved his family whch he didnt want to do as he preferred butcherhign them all without hesitation and without even asking for surrender.
war happend anyway thanks to orochimaru and obito.
itachi stopped nothing.
second problem is that itachi never follows up on this. his family are the last people he will ever kill, other than 6 INNOCENT JINCHURIKIS.
he didnt go around hunting bad regimes or anything. because he doesnt care about that stuff. konoha can be as corrupt and oppressive as possible, just so long as no one tries to stop them.
