Itachi is not a good person

UltimateDeadpool

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Just going to throw this out there, but the literal translation from the raws equates to "And any unknowing child", then later on in the chapter we see Danzo bring up Sasuke. That seemed more like a throwback to him than anyone else.

But regardless, it was still a sin. But at least he showed remorse for it while committing the crime and apologized as an Edo, while admitting his faults later on.
Note how that sentence started though, "any." I also believe it's impossible to assume that Fugaku and Mikoto were the only Uchihas doing the nasty.

True. I understand why he did it, and it was a hell of a rock he was stuck under. But just as he said, I too believe that there were better alternatives if he just had trusted people more. He went with what seemed more practical, and what he could be in control of.
 

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Note how that sentence started though, "any." I also believe it's impossible to assume that Fugaku and Mikoto were the only Uchihas doing the nasty.

True. I understand why he did it, and it was a hell of a rock he was stuck under. But just as he said, I too believe that there were better alternatives if he just had trusted people more. He went with what seemed more practical, and what he could be in control of.
Alright, very true. xD However, I just happen to think that there is no definite proof that Itachi himself specifically killed children and we already know that Obito wouldn't mind doing something like that...considering how he handled a 1 second old infant Naruto. But then again, I admit that still doesn't make Itachi's crime any less that it was, because he is the one who seeked Obito out. We also don't have a count for the population of the clan or definite ages.

I know that he admitted that he should't have done everything alone...the problem is that I don't see who he could have gone to. It's not confirmed that Kakashi and Itachi were close in the manga, only in a filler arc-so not him. Shisui and Itachi were convinced that a KA was the only way to change Fugaku's mind-so not him. Danzo/elders-not them for obvious reasons. Hiruzen-the problem here is that since he put Danzo in charge, when Danzo gives an order it's nearly the equivalent of him giving an order. And Shisui-he jumped off a cliff. :/ Sasuke-he was 7 (going on 8) at the time and I don't believe that he'd grasp the difficulty of the situation or be able to convince the entire clan against it.

Not saying that there wasn't another way. Itachi stated that perhaps Sasuke could have convinced everyone. But considering how Sasuke was at that age, I doubt it and it just seems more like regretful/wishful thinking on Itachi's part.
 
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Kamui Sama

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I believe Kishi changed up what he wanted to do with Itachi while writing the manga. If he was really trying to protect the village, mentally torturing and then giving orders for the execution of one of Konoha's top jounin at the time (Kakashi) seems like one weird way to go about it.
 
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UltimateDeadpool

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Alright, very true. xD However, I just happen to think that there is no definite proof that Itachi himself specifically killed children and we already know that Obito wouldn't mind doing something like that...considering how he handled a 1 second old infant Naruto. But then again, I admit that still doesn't make Itachi's crime any less that it was, because he is the one who seeked Obito out. We also don't have a count for the population of the clan or definite ages.

I know that he admitted that he should't have done everything alone...the problem is that I don't see who he could have gone to. It's not confirmed that Kakashi and Itachi were close in the manga, only in a filler arc-so not him. Shisui and Itachi were convinced that a KA was the only way to change Fugaku's mind-so not him. Danzo/elders-not them for obvious reasons. Hiruzen-the problem here is that since he put Danzo in charge, when Danzo gives an order it's nearly the equivalent of him giving an order. And Shisui-he jumped off a cliff. :/ Sasuke-he was 7 (going on 8) at the time and I don't believe that he'd grasp the difficulty of the situation or be able to convince the entire clan against it.

Not saying that there wasn't another way. Itachi stated that perhaps Sasuke could have convinced everyone. But considering how Sasuke was at that age, I doubt it and it just seems more like regretful/wishful thinking on Itachi's part.
I know that you just don't want to see Itachi that way, you respect him too much.

Hiruzen didn't leave Danzo in charge though, he actually gave Itachi the order to stall the Uchiha for more time to come to a solution. Danzo went behind Hiruzen's back and had a private chat with Itachi, reminding him of the ramifications of the Uchiha's coup if Hiruzen couldn't negotiate peace, so Itachi either didn't trust in Hiruzen or didn't think Fugaku would ever change his stance.

I also think that Itachi was being wishful. However, Itachi could had told everyone about the "masked man." Didn't really even have to say it was (supposedly) Madara, just prove that he's a rogue Uchiha. This would had given Konoha's elders the triggerman that they were looking for because of Kurama's attack, and it would had given the Uchiha the real enemy they wanted to fight and restore their honor. Boom, no Akatsuki, no problems.

Granted, there probably wouldn't be a manga, but Kishimoto wrote himself into that corner.
 
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Chie

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I believe Kishi changed up what he wanted to do with Itachi while writing the manga. If he was really trying to protect the village, mentally torturing and then giving orders for the execution of one of Konoha's top jounin at the time (Kakashi) seems like one weird way to go about it.
Just going to say this...

@bold- He stated right off the bat that he had no desire to fight them. He took no enjoyment in the conflict. He used Tsukiyomi on Kakashi to incapacitate him so they could leave the scene. And he only ordered that after Kakashi (for whatever reason) told them to their faces that he had intel on them, and in an organization like Akatsuki, it's standard to take those out who have intel on you. Kisame even looked directly at Itachi in the manga waiting for his response once Kakashi said that. He was a double spy (we don't know how good of one though, considering that we don't know what intel he gave and what exactly he himself knew, or the extent Hiruzen wanted him to spy on that organization. But, Hiruzen seemed to view Itachi in a relatively positive light in regards to his mission, so I guess he was okay.)

But it does seem like Kishimoto was ambivalent at times concerning the character, so I agree with the first sentence.

I know that you just don't want to see Itachi that way, you respect him too much.

Hiruzen didn't leave Danzo in charge though, he actually gave Itachi the order to stall the Uchiha for more time to come to a solution. Danzo went behind Hiruzen's back and had a private chat with Itachi, reminding him of the ramifications of the Uchiha's coup if Hiruzen couldn't negotiate peace, so Itachi either didn't trust in Hiruzen or didn't think Fugaku would ever change his stance.

I also think that Itachi was being wishful. However, Itachi could had told everyone about the "masked man." Didn't really even have to say it was (supposedly) Madara, just prove that he's a rogue Uchiha. This would had given Konoha's elders the triggerman that they were looking for because of Kurama's attack, and it would had given the Uchiha the real enemy they wanted to fight and restore their honor. Boom, no Akatsuki, no problems.

Granted, there probably wouldn't be a manga, but Kishimoto wrote himself into that corner.
He's a drawing. xD If he came back and was slaughtered by Kaguya right now, I wouldn't care.

The reason I'm going to such lengths to post here is that this is actually what I think. Not because I respect a fictional work.

I understand that. However, the fact remains that Hiruzen was the one who appointed Danzo as an elder, with him being the leader of the Root, which is a section of the Anbu. He was Itachi's superior at the end of the day. Also, I doubt that Fugaku would agree in the end, considering that Shisui and Itachi thought that a KA was the only alternative.

How exactly would Itachi prove Obito's existence? Obito wouldn't just be their chilling waiting for everyone to see him and reveal himself. And at the end of the day, even if he wasn't a part of the clan at the time, he was still an Uchiha and even then it would cause people to dislike the Uchiha as a whole. They tend to generalize.

I'm sorry. Let's just agree to disagree, I suppose. I still respect your opinion, though. And I see where you're coming from.
 
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USSJ Future Trunks

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. He was Itachi's superior at the end of the day.
itachi already proved he didnt care about rank when he threatened to betray the entire village
And at the end of the day, even if he wasn't a part of the clan at the time, he was still an Uchiha and even then it would cause people to dislike the Uchiha as a whole. They tend to generalize.
who cares. theyre dead. the name being sullied means nothing as itachi expected sauske to redeem it any fukin way
e stated right off the bat that he had no desire to fight them. He took no enjoyment in the conflict.
he violently attacked them and in doing so, declared war on the entire village. he tortured kakashi to near death and put him in a coma for no reason. he attacked them for NO REASON. him not enjoying it is irrelevant. it was easily avoidable for someone like him
And he only ordered that after Kakashi (for whatever reason) told them to their faces that he had intel on them, and in an organization like Akatsuki, it's standard to take those out who have intel on you.
no it isnt. its cold blooded murder for no legitimate reason.
itachi was the one who pretty much flat out told them they were after naruto and kakashi merely knowing the name of the organisation is useless information.
and by that logic, shouldnt itachi pretty much start exterminating everyone once the cat got out of the bag and kakashi woke up/told everyone? this is the logic itachi presented so he should maintain it.
unless he simply felt like ordering the murder of someone who did nothing to him out of spite.
Kisame even looked directly at Itachi in the manga waiting for his response once Kakashi said that.
so what? kisame listens to itachi without fail. if itachi decides to leave them alone then kisame will obey. if not then kisames committed treason against his superior.

But regardless, it was still a sin. But at least he showed remorse for it while committing the crime and apologized as an Edo, while admitting his faults later on.
he didnt show remorse for 99% of his other crimes. so yeah not forgiven. the reason he apologised is because sasuke turned evil.
not because he wrongfully hurt and tortured him. that he was fine with as long as sasuke did what he wanted later and stayed loyal.
Orochimaru took JOY in murdering and experimenting on not only adults but CHILDREN and BABIES for power. Shinobi were also loyal to their teammates. Orochimaru disposed of his students like they were garbage. He even used Zaku and Kin as sacrfices for the Edo Tensei.
irrelevant. you said that killing kids and murdering people is all part of being a ninja. so whether they enjoy it or not should be completely irrelevant. i mean if someone like kisame was still a part of a major village do you think theyd do anything except slap him on the wrist for smiling creepily as he takes down enemies?
theres no reason to say "this person is totally an evil ninja" but then use the justification "hes a ninja" to rationalise away another evil person and whitewash him of all deeds.
theres a reaosn why the action itself is the most important aspect of morality.
theres no reason thatd justify genocide for example. its genocide. no matter how you paint it, its an evil thing to do.
You wouldn't kill your brother if he was a threat to your home and knew that if you didn't innocent people were going to die?
your saying itachi followed that philosophy his whole life?
itachi knew orochimaru was a threat, he knew if he didnt do anything, innocent people were going to be horribly massacred. and what did he do? hmm...nothing. at all. jackshit. nada.
he knew danzo was a threat and was going to brainwash more kids if not stopped.
he knew sasuke was a threat and was going to hurt more people if not stopped.
itachi dropped any kind of morality or decency once he killed his family.
 

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itachi already proved he didnt care about rank when he threatened to betray the entire village

who cares. theyre dead. the name being sullied means nothing as itachi expected sauske to redeem it any fukin way

he violently attacked them and in doing so, declared war on the entire village. he tortured kakashi to near death and put him in a coma for no reason. he attacked them for NO REASON. him not enjoying it is irrelevant. it was easily avoidable for someone like him

no it isnt. its cold blooded murder for no legitimate reason.
itachi was the one who pretty much flat out told them they were after naruto and kakashi merely knowing the name of the organisation is useless information.
and by that logic, shouldnt itachi pretty much start exterminating everyone once the cat got out of the bag and kakashi woke up/told everyone? this is the logic itachi presented so he should maintain it.
unless he simply felt like ordering the murder of someone who did nothing to him out of spite.

so what? kisame listens to itachi without fail. if itachi decides to leave them alone then kisame will obey. if not then kisames committed treason against his superior.


he didnt show remorse for 99% of his other crimes. so yeah not forgiven. the reason he apologised is because sasuke turned evil.
not because he wrongfully hurt and tortured him. that he was fine with as long as sasuke did what he wanted later and stayed loyal.

irrelevant. you said that killing kids and murdering people is all part of being a ninja. so whether they enjoy it or not should be completely irrelevant. i mean if someone like kisame was still a part of a major village do you think theyd do anything except slap him on the wrist for smiling creepily as he takes down enemies?
theres no reason to say "this person is totally an evil ninja" but then use the justification "hes a ninja" to rationalise away another evil person and whitewash him of all deeds.
theres a reaosn why the action itself is the most important aspect of morality.
theres no reason thatd justify genocide for example. its genocide. no matter how you paint it, its an evil thing to do.

your saying itachi followed that philosophy his whole life?
itachi knew orochimaru was a threat, he knew if he didnt do anything, innocent people were going to be horribly massacred. and what did he do? hmm...nothing. at all. jackshit. nada.
he knew danzo was a threat and was going to brainwash more kids if not stopped.
he knew sasuke was a threat and was going to hurt more people if not stopped.
itachi dropped any kind of morality or decency once he killed his family.
For a shinobi, he was portrayed as a good person. Not a single shinobi in this manga is 100% good. He knew what he did regarding the clan was a sin and wanted to pay for it in the end. Don't know why that upsets you so much. You continuously bring up the same points over and over to no avail. We all read the same manga. You don't need to say things we know occurred, and then twist them around in a biased-fashion in order to suit your points.

Continue ranting on about a drawing if that helps you to feel better about yourself. It's evident that there's something wrong going on in your life right about now, so you just do this in order to make your self happy for whatever reason. I hope that things get better for you. U_U
 
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USSJ Future Trunks

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For a shinobi, he was portrayed as a good person.
for a shinobi he was shown to be a brutal insane sociopathic murderer and torturer with little to no remorse or concern for anyone but himself.
He knew what he did regarding the clan was a sin and wanted to pay for it in the end. D
no he didnt. he ran away and got the easy way out which is a quick death.
truly paying for it would be turning himself in to the rightful authorities of his village and seeking out justice. revenge isnt justice. it was just to make sauske feel better.
You don't need to say things we know occurred, and then twist them around in a biased-fashion in order to suit your points.
thats exactly what you did by calling itachi a good person and a hero
 

Lord Orochimaru

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Orochimaru wasn't doing the same thing. Ninjas use deception to kill enemies who pose a threat to their home. Orochimaru took JOY in murdering and experimenting on not only adults but CHILDREN and BABIES for power. Shinobi were also loyal to their teammates. Orochimaru disposed of his students like they were garbage. He even used Zaku and Kin as sacrfices for the Edo Tensei.
Success requires sacrifice. And as a leaf anbu I cannot disrespect you but do not bring Orochimaru in the middle.
And Zabuza used Haku didn't he.
If Itachi is bad then Naruto is a bastard. No bashing its hypothetical if someone tells I told bad things about naruto.
I used the word that If Itachi is bad, mind it.
 

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for a shinobi he was shown to be a brutal insane sociopathic murderer and torturer with little to no remorse or concern for anyone but himself.

no he didnt. he ran away and got the easy way out which is a quick death.
truly paying for it would be turning himself in to the rightful authorities of his village and seeking out justice. revenge isnt justice. it was just to make sauske feel better.

thats exactly what you did by calling itachi a good person and a hero
Absolutely, kishi did a moral dissonance with Itachi. Hilarious shit.
 
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Chie

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for a shinobi he was shown to be a brutal insane sociopathic murderer and torturer with little to no remorse or concern for anyone but himself.

no he didnt. he ran away and got the easy way out which is a quick death.
truly paying for it would be turning himself in to the rightful authorities of his village and seeking out justice. revenge isnt justice. it was just to make sauske feel better.

thats exactly what you did by calling itachi a good person and a hero
-1st point: Not at all. Only in your fanfic.

-2nd point: Being a nukenin for 8 years is a quick death? Not so much. He cannot turn himself into the authorities for reasons that have been stated repeatedly within this thread, and for blatant reasons in the manga. Get over it.

-3rd point: That's a manga fact. Get over it and try a new manga if a drawing upsets you to this degree and you're so obsessed with it.
 
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