Itachi = Bad Character Design

[Wood Release]

I'm not bashing Itachi but I think that when designing Itachi, Kishimoto didn't think everything through. For one Itachi had a horrible plan - for smart man like him, his plan involving Sasuke is disgusting. Kill everyone, torture Sasuke, get Sasuke on the path to revenge, kill me, unlock MS, he takes my MS, he gets EMS, use KA to make him good...

Alright, why didn't realistically Itachi explain what was going on and explain why he killed the Uchiha, calmly and slowly and then take Sasuke with him and leave the village together? Then one day if Itachi dies, Sasuke gets the MS etc. etc. Why did he use this weirdo plan to use Sasuke?

Itachi of all people, knowing the history of the Uchiha and whatnot, should've known not to put Sasuke on a path of revenge. Also, what would he do if Danzo killed Sasuke? Go kill Danzo? Like that'll bring Sasuke back right,.? And what if Sasuke killed himself..? What would he do then?

Second, Sasuke killing Itachi would make him unlock the MS how..? Itachi endangered Naruto for gods sakes by telling Sasuke to kill his best friend! He injured to a huge extent Kakashi - how would he have known Tsunade would save him? What if the Tsukuyomi he used on child Sasuke killed him?

Also, Sasuke should've been dead had Tsunade not been Hokage. What if it was Danzo chosen as the next Hokage..? How about Kakashi..? Shikamaru..? Shikaku..? Any of them would've killed Sasuke when they had thr chance for being a missing - nin. Speaking of missing nin, itachi is smart and should no, even if Itachi is killed that Konoha won't accept him back.

Adding on, fugaku and mikoto accepted Itachi's resolve, so why didn't itachi try and you know...talk? Itachi is a smart guy, easily top 3 for the smartest ever but Kishimoto obviously didn't think his role through due to all these inconsistencies. I think he thought of it as soon as he realized that sasuke will best itachi and they'll be dead plot there,

 

[NeverEnding]

I disagree in some points. Itachi did that so sasuke could become stronger. Hate is the #1 power of the uchiha. Itachi wasn't made Good but he wasn't made BAD either. I belive he was more of a bendable character!

 

[Sir Blades]

You cant simply judge the writer if he did not know what plan he had for itachi and sasuke. Maybe he was supposed to be evil, but later changed his mind cause thats what writers do sometimes.

 

[Sefirosu Masamune]

Itachi=BadASS character design.. Itachi is cooler than the aburame clan as a whole lol

 

[Wood Release]

I disagree in some points. Itachi did that so sasuke could become stronger. Hate is the #1 power of the uchiha. Itachi wasn't made Good but he wasn't made BAD either. I belive he was more of a bendable character!

Understandable

You cant simply judge the writer if he did not know what plan he had for itachi and sasuke. Maybe he was supposed to be evil, but later changed his mind cause thats what writers do sometimes.

But it still should've made since - there are way too many inconsistencies.

Itachi=BadASS character design.. Itachi is cooler than the aburame clan as a whole lol

I'm not talking about his looks...

 

[AnimeKingXD]

DIDN'T READ LOL

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[Wood Release]

DIDN'T READ LOL

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Nice reputation bar

 

[TJ0001]

The thing about itachi is that killing the clan was not his idea.

nor was it something that he wanted to do, it was something that he felt HAD to be done for the sake of his village. The only problem was he loved sasuke too much to kill him, and so instead led him towards hating him so that Sasuke could have something to strive toward and get stronger, the death of his older brother itachi, the murderer of his clan.

At first, this was a complete and total success, With every confrontation itachi had with his brother he managed to make sasuke hate him more and more, and while im sure the hate made itachi uncomfortable, He had to have been relieved to see that sasuke was growing despite his clan falling, at the same time, he wanted to push sasuke, he wanted to MAKE sasuke work for his goal, sasuke HAD to get stronger in order to defeat itachi.

When the time finally came around, itachi died with a smile on his face, his mission was complete. or so he thought.

 

[Amaterasuice]

I love Itachi, but even I have to agree.

 

[Wood Release]

The thing about itachi is that killing the clan was not his idea.

nor was it something that he wanted to do, it was something that he felt HAD to be done for the sake of his village. The only problem was he loved sasuke too much to kill him, and so instead led him towards hating him so that Sasuke could have something to strive toward and get stronger, the death of his older brother itachi, the murderer of his clan.

At first, this was a complete and total success, With every confrontation itachi had with his brother he managed to make sasuke hate him more and more, and while im sure the hate made itachi uncomfortable, He had to have been relieved to see that sasuke was growing despite his clan falling, at the same time, he wanted to push sasuke, he wanted to MAKE sasuke work for his goal, sasuke HAD to get stronger in order to defeat itachi.

When the time finally came around, itachi died with a smile on his face, his mission was complete. or so he thought.

I understand this and don't get me wrong, I love Itachi! But Kishimoto didn't plan him well which is visible due to the plethora of inconsistencies.

 

[lordmadarauchiha]

Itachi=BadASS character design.. Itachi is cooler than the aburame clan as a whole lol

The lines in his face makes him ugly in my opinion

 

[Stark]

I disagree with all, even though I didn't read teehee. But on a serious note his entire personality and morals and all were predetermined, Kishi did really good on his character imo and Itachi's bad decisions were all for plot.

 

[lordmadarauchiha]

I disagree with all, even though I didn't read teehee. But on a serious note his entire personality and morals and all were predetermined, Kishi did really good on his character imo and Itachi's bad decisions were all for plot.

Yes they were yes they were indeed

 

[Wood Release]

I disagree with all, even though I didn't read teehee. But on a serious note his entire personality and morals and all were predetermined, Kishi did really good on his character imo and Itachi's bad decisions were all for plot.

Read then
Then reply again please

 

[Momo86]

It is certainly possible that Kishi changed idea about Itachi's role on the road, but still most of the things you point out as inconsistencies really aren't such.

his plan involving Sasuke is disgusting.

Yes, but not because it's not a clever plan, just because it is morally horrid.

Kill everyone, torture Sasuke, get Sasuke on the path to revenge, kill me, unlock MS, he takes my MS, he gets EMS, use KA to make him good...

You are listing all these as if they were all part of a single plan while they weren't. And you're missing various points about the plan itself, also.

Alright, why didn't realistically Itachi explain what was going on and explain why he killed the Uchiha, calmly and slowly and then take Sasuke with him and leave the village together? Then one day if Itachi dies, Sasuke gets the MS etc. etc. Why did he use this weirdo plan to use Sasuke?

Itachi is a great character because he isn't a walking mass of goodness like some seem to think. Among his desires there was the very selfish one to keep his clan's name clean, and he assumed that the same was true for Sasuke - that Sasuke would be prefer thinking Itachi as a mass murderer rather than knowing their clan for what they really were. A very big mistake he himself admitted after defeating Kabuto. Saying "I killed them and that's the just reason I had" was just no option for him, it would be like killing them twice.

Itachi of all people, knowing the history of the Uchiha and whatnot, should've known not to put Sasuke on a path of revenge.


Itachi thought he could control the situation. He admitted even this mistake, once to Naruto and once again to Sasuke itself. He basically tried over and over again to manipulate Sasuke.

Essentially you're missing various traits of Itachi's personality. He is manipulative, coercitive, and thinks he can keep everything in control. Which is really believable for someone who is a triple-agent spy and an acclaimed genius estranged by his own famous lineage.

Also, what would he do if Danzo killed Sasuke? Go kill Danzo? Like that'll bring Sasuke back right,.?

Agreement with Danzo and the others: I won't say that you ordered the massacre and nobody will harm Sasuke. WOrked pretty well, too, considering nobody tried to except Danzo via Sai once, when Sasuke gave them the excuse that he turned a criminal. Danzo only ordered explicitly his elimination after Itachi's death was confirmed. And before Hiruzen died it wasn't even in question that someone could touch Sasuke...and after Hiruzen died, Itachi paid a visit to Konoha and then again for two long years nobody dared suggest to harm Sasuke. All of this is pretty consistent with the fact that otherwise Itachi could reveal the secret of the Uchiha massacre and that the "peaceful" Konoha was basically built upon a bloodshed.

And what if Sasuke killed himself..? What would he do then?

That had nothing to do with Itachi himself. Sasuke was born out of a family of ninja and wanted to keep the tradition. He was bound to end in dangerous situations since youth anyway.

Second, Sasuke killing Itachi would make him unlock the MS how..?

It wouldn't. Itachi's plan didn't include Sasuke acquiring the Magenkyo. You confuse Itachi's main plan with his backup plans. In case Tobi tried to speak with Sasuke, Itachi got a backup plan in sealing his own Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye, setting it up to react to Tobi and kill him. In case it failed, Itachi already told Sasuke that "Madara" (Tobi) is untrustworthy. In case Sasuke trusts "Madara" anyway, Itachi left his Kotoamatsukami in Naruto's body to literally brainwash Sasuke once again and fill it with an unexplicable desire to protect Konoha.

These weren't the core part of the plan just some back up emergency routes. It is telling that most of those included manipulating Sasuke in an even deeper way, by killing a possibile truth-teller or incepting an idea in Sasuke's own mind forcibly.

Itachi endangered Naruto for gods sakes by telling Sasuke to kill his best friend! He injured to a huge extent Kakashi - how would he have known Tsunade would save him? What if the Tsukuyomi he used on child Sasuke killed him? Also, Sasuke should've been dead had Tsunade not been Hokage.


That is once again where Itachi's arrogance comes into play. He was already in the act of being a very violent psychopath and kept with the act,which served to keep his agreement with Danzo, mantain his role as a spy into Akatsuki and keep Sasuke into his delusion. He did all sorts of things a sadistic maniac would do, including scarring Sasuke mentally and physically and hit him (and Kakashi) with dangerous, albeit non-lethal, jutsu. He knew he was taking gambles. He was convinced that Sasuke wouldn't kill a friend and that the Konoha villagers would cure him from the Tsukuyomi somehow and he was correct on both instances. His written path for Sasuke stopped working sometime after that (more on it down)

What if it was Danzo chosen as the next Hokage..? How about Kakashi..? Shikamaru..? Shikaku..? Any of them would've killed Sasuke when they had thr chance for being a missing - nin.

See point 2. Nobody would touch Sasuke until Itachi and Hiruzen are both dead. And by then, Sasuke would already be back on Konoha as a hero.

Speaking of missing nin, itachi is smart and should no, even if Itachi is killed that Konoha won't accept him back.

How so? Sasuke left the village only due to Orochimaru's influence, which then again was after Sasuke only because he tried to take Itachi's body and Itachi owned him. Itachi knew he could erase Orochimaru at any point - which is exactly what he did when he unleashed the Susanoo exactly in order to make Orochimaru appear from within Sasuke. Sasuke defecting to the Sound Village was the only thing that didn't go according to Itachi's plan and he thought he had the means to correct that. Once again he was arrogant because he underestimated Orochimaru and his Curse-Seal method of revival.

Sasuke would (in Itachi's mind) then be the one shinobi that in is youth killed Orochimaru and Itachi, two dangerous missing nins. And he'd be left with one desire: to rebuild the Uchiha clan, the proud clan he and Itachi once belonged to who was among Konoha's founders. What would then Sasuke try to do? Return to the village to rebuild the clan. Will they shun such a powerful and heroic shinobi? Most likely not.

Adding on, fugaku and mikoto accepted Itachi's resolve, so why didn't itachi try and you know...talk?

Diplomatic attempts were tried over and over, as it is explicitly stated. Keep in mind that the Uchiha clan was shrinked down from one of the two major forces of Konohagakure to a handful shinobis who were already bound to their role by birth - they weren't in the right mood to stop a coup d'etat once they had it set up.

 

[BloodSeed]

I'm not bashing Itachi but I think that when designing Itachi, Kishimoto didn't think everything through. For one Itachi had a horrible plan - for smart man like him, his plan involving Sasuke is disgusting. Kill everyone, torture Sasuke, get Sasuke on the path to revenge, kill me, unlock MS, he takes my MS, he gets EMS, use KA to make him good...

Alright, why didn't realistically Itachi explain what was going on and explain why he killed the Uchiha, calmly and slowly and then take Sasuke with him and leave the village together? Then one day if Itachi dies, Sasuke gets the MS etc. etc. Why did he use this weirdo plan to use Sasuke?

Itachi of all people, knowing the history of the Uchiha and whatnot, should've known not to put Sasuke on a path of revenge. Also, what would he do if Danzo killed Sasuke? Go kill Danzo? Like that'll bring Sasuke back right,.? And what if Sasuke killed himself..? What would he do then?

Second, Sasuke killing Itachi would make him unlock the MS how..? Itachi endangered Naruto for gods sakes by telling Sasuke to kill his best friend! He injured to a huge extent Kakashi - how would he have known Tsunade would save him? What if the Tsukuyomi he used on child Sasuke killed him?

Also, Sasuke should've been dead had Tsunade not been Hokage. What if it was Danzo chosen as the next Hokage..? How about Kakashi..? Shikamaru..? Shikaku..? Any of them would've killed Sasuke when they had thr chance for being a missing - nin. Speaking of missing nin, itachi is smart and should no, even if Itachi is killed that Konoha won't accept him back.

Adding on, fugaku and mikoto accepted Itachi's resolve, so why didn't itachi try and you know...talk? Itachi is a smart guy, easily top 3 for the smartest ever but Kishimoto obviously didn't think his role through due to all these inconsistencies. I think he thought of it as soon as he realized that sasuke will best itachi and they'll be dead plot there,

kishimoto made him that way. fanboys just want him to be perfect but he is not. just like saying choji is a bad design because he is fat why not make him physicaly fit? lol

 

[Wood Release]

It is certainly possible that Kishi changed idea about Itachi's role on the road, but still most of the things you point out as inconsistencies really aren't such.

his plan involving Sasuke is disgusting.

Yes, but not because it's not a clever plan, just because it is morally horrid.

Kill everyone, torture Sasuke, get Sasuke on the path to revenge, kill me, unlock MS, he takes my MS, he gets EMS, use KA to make him good...

You are listing all these as if they were all part of a single plan while they weren't. And you're missing various points about the plan itself, also.

Alright, why didn't realistically Itachi explain what was going on and explain why he killed the Uchiha, calmly and slowly and then take Sasuke with him and leave the village together? Then one day if Itachi dies, Sasuke gets the MS etc. etc. Why did he use this weirdo plan to use Sasuke?

Itachi is a great character because he isn't a walking mass of goodness like some seem to think. Among his desires there was the very selfish one to keep his clan's name clean, and he assumed that the same was true for Sasuke - that Sasuke would be prefer thinking Itachi as a mass murderer rather than knowing their clan for what they really were. A very big mistake he himself admitted after defeating Kabuto. Saying "I killed them and that's the just reason I had" was just no option for him, it would be like killing them twice.

Itachi of all people, knowing the history of the Uchiha and whatnot, should've known not to put Sasuke on a path of revenge.


Itachi thought he could control the situation. He admitted even this mistake, once to Naruto and once again to Sasuke itself. He basically tried over and over again to manipulate Sasuke.

Essentially you're missing various traits of Itachi's personality. He is manipulative, coercitive, and thinks he can keep everything in control. Which is really believable for someone who is a triple-agent spy and an acclaimed genius estranged by his own famous lineage.

Also, what would he do if Danzo killed Sasuke? Go kill Danzo? Like that'll bring Sasuke back right,.?

Agreement with Danzo and the others: I won't say that you ordered the massacre and nobody will harm Sasuke. WOrked pretty well, too, considering nobody tried to except Danzo via Sai once, when Sasuke gave them the excuse that he turned a criminal. Danzo only ordered explicitly his elimination after Itachi's death was confirmed. And before Hiruzen died it wasn't even in question that someone could touch Sasuke...and after Hiruzen died, Itachi paid a visit to Konoha and then again for two long years nobody dared suggest to harm Sasuke. All of this is pretty consistent with the fact that otherwise Itachi could reveal the secret of the Uchiha massacre and that the "peaceful" Konoha was basically built upon a bloodshed.

And what if Sasuke killed himself..? What would he do then?

That had nothing to do with Itachi himself. Sasuke was born out of a family of ninja and wanted to keep the tradition. He was bound to end in dangerous situations since youth anyway.

Second, Sasuke killing Itachi would make him unlock the MS how..?

It wouldn't. Itachi's plan didn't include Sasuke acquiring the Magenkyo. You confuse Itachi's main plan with his backup plans. In case Tobi tried to speak with Sasuke, Itachi got a backup plan in sealing his own Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye, setting it up to react to Tobi and kill him. In case it failed, Itachi already told Sasuke that "Madara" (Tobi) is untrustworthy. In case Sasuke trusts "Madara" anyway, Itachi left his Kotoamatsukami in Naruto's body to literally brainwash Sasuke once again and fill it with an unexplicable desire to protect Konoha.

These weren't the core part of the plan just some back up emergency routes. It is telling that most of those included manipulating Sasuke in an even deeper way, by killing a possibile truth-teller or incepting an idea in Sasuke's own mind forcibly.

Itachi endangered Naruto for gods sakes by telling Sasuke to kill his best friend! He injured to a huge extent Kakashi - how would he have known Tsunade would save him? What if the Tsukuyomi he used on child Sasuke killed him? Also, Sasuke should've been dead had Tsunade not been Hokage.


That is once again where Itachi's arrogance comes into play. He was already in the act of being a very violent psychopath and kept with the act,which served to keep his agreement with Danzo, mantain his role as a spy into Akatsuki and keep Sasuke into his delusion. He did all sorts of things a sadistic maniac would do, including scarring Sasuke mentally and physically and hit him (and Kakashi) with dangerous, albeit non-lethal, jutsu. He knew he was taking gambles. He was convinced that Sasuke wouldn't kill a friend and that the Konoha villagers would cure him from the Tsukuyomi somehow and he was correct on both instances. His written path for Sasuke stopped working sometime after that (more on it down)

What if it was Danzo chosen as the next Hokage..? How about Kakashi..? Shikamaru..? Shikaku..? Any of them would've killed Sasuke when they had thr chance for being a missing - nin.

See point 2. Nobody would touch Sasuke until Itachi and Hiruzen are both dead. And by then, Sasuke would already be back on Konoha as a hero.

Speaking of missing nin, itachi is smart and should no, even if Itachi is killed that Konoha won't accept him back.

How so? Sasuke left the village only due to Orochimaru's influence, which then again was after Sasuke only because he tried to take Itachi's body and Itachi owned him. Itachi knew he could erase Orochimaru at any point - which is exactly what he did when he unleashed the Susanoo exactly in order to make Orochimaru appear from within Sasuke. Sasuke defecting to the Sound Village was the only thing that didn't go according to Itachi's plan and he thought he had the means to correct that. Once again he was arrogant because he underestimated Orochimaru and his Curse-Seal method of revival.

Sasuke would (in Itachi's mind) then be the one shinobi that in is youth killed Orochimaru and Itachi, two dangerous missing nins. And he'd be left with one desire: to rebuild the Uchiha clan, the proud clan he and Itachi once belonged to who was among Konoha's founders. What would then Sasuke try to do? Return to the village to rebuild the clan. Will they shun such a powerful and heroic shinobi? Most likely not.

Adding on, fugaku and mikoto accepted Itachi's resolve, so why didn't itachi try and you know...talk?

Diplomatic attempts were tried over and over, as it is explicitly stated. Keep in mind that the Uchiha clan was shrinked down from one of the two major forces of Konohagakure to a handful shinobis who were already bound to their role by birth - they weren't in the right mood to stop a coup d'etat once they had it set up.

Beautiful ... Wanna debate this another day?

 

[James Wolfsbane]

I believe it was more along the lines of Itachi having a general idea of what the most likely outcome of certain events were based on variables and information he was able to work with and therefore influence at his own will. What he had to work with was that he failed to kill his little brother, the belief that hatred is the fuel for the fire of the sharingan, that Danzo and the two elders feared his spilling their secret to the villagers or him laying waste to the village out of vengeance should they harm his brother, possessing the eye of the greatest genjutsu user of his time, being a member of a crime organization bent on collecting tailed beasts and therefore having close tabs on the greatest threat to the future safety of the leaf village, the list goes on and on.

While yes his plan did have quite a bit of holes for details to slip through, we also have to consider that simply being vastly perceptive, intelligent and possessing a sharingan does not make one a seer. It can make you good at calculating the odds of certain outcomes along a chain of events, but can you honestly expect one man to be able to think of everything it takes to thwart the war plans of a man equally as intelligent as, if not more so than, himself?

 

[Momo86]

Beautiful ... Wanna debate this another day?

Yep, I'm too busy watching the new opening again and again now >_>

 

[Owarij]

Eh ? seems like you fail to understand Itachi's character and alot of elements of the manga

to start off, the first mistake you made was stating that it was Itachi's plan to kill the clan.. He was ordered and blackmailed by Hiruzen and Danzo respectively.. Danzo basically told him, that it was either the anbu do the job and they kill Sasuke, or he does it and gets the chance to plead for Sasuke's safety, Obviously, him loving hsi brother, he decided to shoulder the burden of the massacare by himself... Next, in attempt to allow Sasuke to live a normal life, he played the role of the villain who decided to kill the clan on his own free will... that way, Sasuke would harbor no ill feelings against the village ....... His plan hence on was almost perfect, but failed for numerous reasons... there were too many elements in which he could not predict... one being that tobi had a secret that would save him from amaterasu, and seondly, that he would get revived from edo tensei and thus intercept his own plan of utilizing kotoamatsuki on Sasuke

Talk to Sasuke? That would possibly be the worst idea known to man, all that would do would turn Sasuke against konoha at an even younger age.. He would have fled,hating the vilage for what they did to his parents and to his brother, and then be led into the arms of orochimaru, But by that time Orochimaru would be able to take his body, and since he wasn't strong at that time.. yea..

Talk to his parents? They respected Itachi, but the whole coup was above him... He tried talking to his father.. did you miss the part when he subtely told his father that his ideals would be the clan's downfall? He told him that they focus to much on the clan and not on the bigger picture which is the village.. His father did not care for his words and still continued with the coup afterwards.. Hiruzen failed with peace treaties as well.. Time ran out....there was only one option left... Take important note of the bolded

Sasuke should have been dead a long time ago.... that night during the massacre...he was a liability.. and since Itachi was ordered to joining akatsuki , he could only do the best he could to put Danzo in check, which is reminding him of the deal he made with Hiruzen, by visiting Konoha..