Itachi and Kisame vs KCM Naruto and Gaara

[Apêx1]

^lml at actually thinking FRS beats Yata+susano. The blast radius of the massive FRS was never shown, nor is it likely that it is stronger than Kirin, which was tanked by v2 Susano. Yata has been said to reflect anything, had been proven to reflect the hydra heads, has been shown to tank every attack thrown at it, and was stated by Zetsu to be invincible. Yet again, people disagree because it was never up against a TBB. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
-Clones are good. Clones give Samehada more chakra at a steadier and more reliable rate, or is every KCM Clones Naruto speed? lmao.
-Kisame doesn't get blitzed like last time, he wasn't even looking. Using that as proof of KCM Naruto blitzing is ludicrous. Itachi has been shown to fight on par with KCM Naruto and Bee. No reason for him not to react to Naruto's KCM speed all of a sudden.
-Bunta doesn't fit well in the dome...lol. Anyways, Naruto doesn't have the Kyuubi's help, genjutsu ends or gives enough time for water dome to end.

 

[Bronze]

His Shunshin isn't really too impressive to me. Comparable to V2 Ay's really. Sasuke, who had worse precognition at that time, could follow V2 Ay's movements. Don't see why Itachi can't. And no, Itachi is quite fast. Here are examples of his Shunshin;

Look at the distance between Itachi and Naruto. [1] And suddenly in the next scan, he appears above them [2] shocking Bī [Hence the bolded '!!?'] even though they were looking at him the whole time and were talking.

Again look at the distance between Itachi and Bī [1], and then Itachi suddenly appeared behind Bī and even had to warn him in order for Bī to be able to counter. [2] Sasuke [In his Hebi state] was noted to be extremely fast by both Tobi and Deidara and yet he didn't even come close to blitzing Bī unlike Itachi who actually did it. Not even Minato managed to shock Bī with his Shunshin.

Later, Itachi was capable of keeping up with Naruto and then quickly reacting to Bī's attack who came behind him in order to try and land a sneak attack on Itachi. [1] Now take a note of this, Itachi was capable of evading Bī's attack and returning to Nagato extremely quickly considering that both Naruto and Bī were still in the same position they were in when Itachi was there after Itachi returned to Nagato's side. [2] He needs less time to cover bigger distances than Naruto needs to move his arm.

He was capable of clone feint shunshin blitzing a Sennin Mōdo user even if said Sennin Mōdo user had great sensory capabilities. [1]

The distance between them was not as far as you think it is [

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]. From that angle, logical assumption is at least 5 meters, which is not impressive for Itachi's Shunshin. Lets take a look at why Itachi isn't keeping up with Naruto's Shunshin:

• Naruto reacted to Ay's V2 Shunshin [
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  ]. Ay is the fastest Shinobi after Minato.
• Naruto blitzed Obito [
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  ]. Obito's reactions are much greater than Itachi's. The latter questions he should have passed through him [
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  ], which explains Naruto's Shunshin is too fast.

Itachi is not going to react to Naruto's Shunshin, where Obito first time couldn't. Most of Sasuke's Shunshin feats you applied for Itachi are people who aren't great at reactions.​

Though, all of this is definitely not the point, as Itachi and Kisame will be standing next to each other, meaning that Itachi will have no need to move in the first place. All he has to do is activate the Susano'o. Wait, how does that Sasuke scan show anything? Naruto isn't too physically strong. He won't penetrate through a thing that tanked Kirin. And what? I don't understand. Look at the location again, this is not a desert. The village sized sand wave was made inside of a desert. Gaara doesn't have a desert here. So no village sized sand wave. Only the normal one he showed. And lastly, yes, tree size isn't impressive. That's why Gaara's normal tsunami size isn't that impressive either. Water Dome is too big for it be countered by the normal sand tsunami. GSB counters any large sand wave Gaara throws at him anyways. It's literally a snack for Kisame.

The scan of Sasuke is supposed to prove that Itachi's Susanoo getting damaged when it gets pounded by Naruto. You need to check what ''tank'' means. Tank means taking a hit without damage. Itachi's Susanoo got bisected by Kirin, and Itachi was barely alive. Doesn't matter if he is in a village or not. He can make a desert on his own, especially improving since P2. Calling Gaara's sand feat less impressive is same as me calling Kisame's Suiton less impressive as well. Its not helping taking away the feat. Kisame gets blitzed and Itachi gets overwhelmed by combo.​

 

[Bogard]

^lml at actually thinking FRS beats Yata+susano. The blast radius of the massive FRS was never shown, nor is it likely that it is stronger than Kirin, which was tanked by v2 Susano. Yata has been said to reflect anything, had been proven to reflect the hydra heads, has been shown to tank every attack thrown at it, and was stated by Zetsu to be invincible. Yet again, people disagree because it was never up against a TBB. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
-Clones are good. Clones give Samehada more chakra at a steadier and more reliable rate, or is every KCM Clones Naruto speed? lmao.
-Kisame doesn't get blitzed like last time, he wasn't even looking. Using that as proof of KCM Naruto blitzing is ludicrous. Itachi has been shown to fight on par with KCM Naruto and Bee. No reason for him not to react to Naruto's KCM speed all of a sudden.
-Bunta doesn't fit well in the dome...lol. Anyways, Naruto doesn't have the Kyuubi's help, genjutsu ends or gives enough time for water dome to end.

- Were was the so invincible yata mirror against Kirin? It's so sad people don't know the definition of hyperbole or rather know but ignore knowing what an hyperbole is, really sad. Yata mirror was never put to test unlike majority of techniques who have been as overhyped if not more overhyped than this mirror and got shat on later on due to power-scaling or advance of the story with more and more developed abilities. You can't compare explosive tags(the strongest attack yata mirror ever defended against in the entire manga) to the amount of AOE attacks we see currently

- Kirin is weak compared to normal Rs let alone the chou odama rasenshuriken. The Kirin that seemed large with a zoom panel actually barely fitted the location between Itachi and Sasuke

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Which is centered between the 2 parallel blocks bottom panel here

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Not to mention that due to the attack only landing for 1/1000 of second, Itachi only needed to protect himself during that interval, yet his Susanoo with the so godlike and overhyped yata mirror left him in this pathetic state

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Time is changing guys. Kirin which seemed to be strong earlier in the manga is too weak compared to nowadays jutsus, just like Itachi's Susanoo is a prehistorical attack now

- Itachi never fought on par with KCM Naruto and Bee. Naruto had less than 1/22 of his chakra, didn't use shunshin and only there for a talk. Kisame didn't even got a glimps of Naruto's shunshin. It's not going to change something even in a second battle if he can't even catch someone's movement in the first. It's not like his eye tracking capability will evolve

- Even if Bunta doesn't fit in the waterdome(highly unlikely), he covers most part. Getting out from there would be easy

 

[Wave.]

The distance between them was not as far as you think it is [

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]. From that angle, logical assumption is at least 5 meters, which is not impressive for Itachi's Shunshin. Lets take a look at why Itachi isn't keeping up with Naruto's Shunshin:

• Naruto reacted to Ay's V2 Shunshin [
  You must be registered for see links
  ]. Ay is the fastest Shinobi after Minato.
• Naruto blitzed Obito [
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  ]. Obito's reactions are much greater than Itachi's. The latter questions he should have passed through him [
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  ], which explains Naruto's Shunshin is too fast.

Itachi is not going to react to Naruto's Shunshin, where Obito first time couldn't. Most of Sasuke's Shunshin feats you applied for Itachi are people who aren't great at reactions.​

The scan of Sasuke is supposed to prove that Itachi's Susanoo getting damaged when it gets pounded by Naruto. You need to check what ''tank'' means. Tank means taking a hit without damage. Itachi's Susanoo got bisected by Kirin, and Itachi was barely alive. Doesn't matter if he is in a village or not. He can make a desert on his own, especially improving since P2. Calling Gaara's sand feat less impressive is same as me calling Kisame's Suiton less impressive as well. Its not helping taking away the feat. Kisame gets blitzed and Itachi gets overwhelmed by combo.​

What? How was Obito blitzed? ''I should have just let you slip through me.'' <- Implying that he could have done it. Obito wanted to headbutt Naruto for some reason. Probably had confidence in the hardness of his mask. There are multiple occasions in which Obito almost Kamui'd Naruto if it weren't for Kakashi. In fact, Obito managed to Kamui into Ohnoki's Jinton, Kamui Sasuke and them Kamui himself out before the Jinton could explode, which probably doesn't even take a second. Itachi sets up Susano'o. Nothing you shown me tells me that Naruto will blitz Itachi. Not when he didn't do it in the manga. If he didn't do in the manga, I really have no reason to believe Itachi would get blitzed before he could activate Susano'o.

And I know what tanking means. It's just how you call when Susano'o blocks or defends something. People have been using ''tank'' as the word to describe such things on NB like.. forever. We both know what I meant when I said that Susano'o tanked Kirin. Either way, Kirin is far more powerful than Naruto's physical strength. It definitely won't do anything. Susano'o blocks the blow, Itachi doesn't suffer anything. Especially since Yata would repell the attack. And it does matter if he is in a desert or not. There isn't that much sand outside of a desert. And ok. My point that Water Dome is quite larger than the normal sand tsunami Gaara created still stands.

 

[HiddenSound]

I really don't see Team 1 winning. Kisame gets wrecked as soon as the match starts, Itachi's stamina sucks, and FRS > Susano'o.


Come back William -.-

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I really don't see Team 1 winning. Kisame gets wrecked as soon as the match starts, Itachi's stamina sucks, and FRS > Susano'o.


Come back William -.-

Screw you, Ty. I'm a bit busy right now, but Bogard, I am coming at you.

 

[Bogard]

Screw you, Ty. I'm a bit busy right now, but Bogard, I am coming at you.

Haha waiting since the last debate already

 

[Nagato The Sage]

AC's a clown. Don't sweat it bogard.

 

[Apêx1]

Spoiler

- Were was the so invincible yata mirror against Kirin? It's so sad people don't know the definition of hyperbole or rather know but ignore knowing what an hyperbole is, really sad. Yata mirror was never put to test unlike majority of techniques who have been as overhyped if not more overhyped than this mirror and got shat on later on due to power-scaling or advance of the story with more and more developed abilities. You can't compare explosive tags(the strongest attack yata mirror ever defended against in the entire manga) to the amount of AOE attacks we see currently

- Kirin is weak compared to normal Rs let alone the chou odama rasenshuriken. The Kirin that seemed large with a zoom panel actually barely fitted the location between Itachi and Sasuke

You must be registered for see images

Which is centered between the 2 parallel blocks bottom panel here

You must be registered for see images

Not to mention that due to the attack only landing for 1/1000 of second, Itachi only needed to protect himself during that interval, yet his Susanoo with the so godlike and overhyped yata mirror left him in this pathetic state

You must be registered for see images

Time is changing guys. Kirin which seemed to be strong earlier in the manga is too weak compared to nowadays jutsus, just like Itachi's Susanoo is a prehistorical attack now

- Itachi never fought on par with KCM Naruto and Bee. Naruto had less than 1/22 of his chakra, didn't use shunshin and only there for a talk. Kisame didn't even got a glimps of Naruto's shunshin. It's not going to change something even in a second battle if he can't even catch someone's movement in the first. It's not like his eye tracking capability will evolve

- Even if Bunta doesn't fit in the waterdome(highly unlikely), he covers most part. Getting out from there would be easy

Shouldn't have replied to the notorious Minato/Naruto wanker. Your point about hyperbole doesn't stand. If it would've only been in the db, it would be agreeable. But being stated so many times and then reflecting a hydra's head with no difficulty is in itself proof that it reflects, instead of tanks. Believe what you want, saying FRS is weaker than Kirin is dull. Chou Odama doesn't even have any feats, so your argumentation on that regard remains moot no matter what. Time is changing, good catch. Itachi's susano is prehistorical, good catch again. I was using your fail logic to imply Itachi was as fast if not faster than Naruto in that fight. As long as you keep that logic, I will go along with this logic. Anyways, Kisame wasn't looking, how can he react or get a glimpse? His 'eye tracking' Lol, your word choices are really nice to read, if this was a comic story with dramatic irony as its main concept.
Btw, I was saying what you said in a pitiful tone. Clearly, Bunta fits well. It was as big as mountains [

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], Bunta remains in it and barely covers any of the dome on a horizontal axis. Anyways, Kisame creates clones within the water, merges with samehada, and uses shark summons to eat away at Naruto and Bunta.

Anyways, none of this is needed. As I said previously (you didn't refute it), genjutsu will end Naruto without the Kyuubi's help.

 

[HiddenSound]

Screw you, Ty. I'm a bit busy right now, but Bogard, I am coming at you.

You hurt me William. You hurt me real bad.

 

[LustyLover]

Gaara's a nonfactor in this in case people weren't already wondering. He either gets 1-shotted by Itachi or all of his attacks get nullified by Kisame's suiton. Without Kurama, Naruto easily gets taken down with Tsukuyomi. He's never been able to commit any Genjutsu even mildly proficiently and never broke out of it by himself. These two have no way to escape Tsukuyomi. Team one has to win. If Naruto had Kurama, that might be a different story.

 

[Gagster]

Naruto blitzs Kisame and Okho's while Gaara binds Itachi.

 

[Beans2]

Gaara and Naruto high diff. I see some people underestimating Gaara.

 

[ARGUS]

Naruto and gaara win this

-naruto creates 13 KB and through them he constantly puts the duopoly the defensive by firing FRS/COFRS and rasengans this forcing itachi to overuse his susanoo... And with gaaras backup the akatsukis are getting overwhelmed

-itachi being alive means that the side effects of overusing his MS hurts him here...and even i he uses susanoo it will get destroyed by naruto or he an be pulled out of it by gaaras sand thus allowig the duo to finish him off

-genjutsu is not happening to naruto since he is too fast for adequate eye contact and through clones and partner method it's highly unlikely... Furthermore naruto has been fighting 2 of the strongest Uchiha and not fallen once

-kisame is getting overwhelmed by naruto at CQC... His Samehada is not absorbing multiple rasengans/FRS and is not powerful enough to beat 7 kage level KCM clones... His water may counter gaaras sand but with itachi down ... He is gettif outnumbered and outclassed

 

[madvictory]

Team 1 takes this high diff & only because of naruto's clone spam.

Team 1 is Itachi's and Kisame's team.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

 

[Haizaki]

Naruto solo's.

He's already shown to be able to move at speed Kisame and Killer Bee can't react to with Shunshin. Now with control and expertise with the speed he won't get his ankle stuck like last time.

14 Kage Bunshin allows Naruto have 7 of each on both adversaries. Capable of overwhelming them with numbers and and superior combat speed. Forcing Itachi to use Susano'O, which due to his below average stamina, he'll gas after a small time.

Kage Bunshin also doubles as counter for Itachi's Genjutsu, Kage Bunshin being affected by Genjutsu but not subject to its affects. Even if it hits the real Naruto, a Kage Bunshin breaks Naruto out.​

​

Thought I was the only one thinking Naruto could solo

 

[DemonicAvenger]

The example of Kisame being caught off guard by Naruto's speed is misleading as all Hell. It's taking a character, not looking in the direction of his attacker getting hit when he is both in an unhealthy state and unable to do much thanks to a lack of maneuverability. Kisame only mentions on how he didn't realize the speed in which Naruto now possessed [

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]. Considering the state he was in; Not all too impressive. While Naruto's later developed speed would catch Kisame off guard and give him a hard time, it's in no way an easy objective.

That would be all fine and dandy if I was simply talking about Kisame alone. If you take note, I was also said that Killer Bee himself noted that all he saw was a flash of yellow. Killer Bee himself being know for being exceptionally fast.

You can also see here that 6th Gate Guy's speed was enough to blitz Kisame

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. A speed that KCM Naruto's Shunshin far exceeds. Kisame's speed was unhindered by the fact that it was copy of him as well, as Kakashi notes the strength of their Jutsu and abilities were the

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.

I'd also be pleased if you could provide any possible reactions feats from Kisame that would put him anywhere near reacting to Naruto's Shunshin.​

​

Kisame and Itachi are going to be standing next to each other at the start of this fight; With Naruto making so many shadow clones and with each quite speedy, naturally Susano'o will be thrown up as a proventative measure against being out flanked.

I didn't deny this either. Frankly, it would be an extremely short fight if Susano'O didn't come out.​

​

Any ailments are rid of by Kisame's mastery of Samehada, able to control it even after it found a more favorable chakra [

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].

Samehada may be able to heal injuries, but being able to fix Itachi's eye's is highly unlikely. If Kisame was able to do such a thing, wouldn't you think that he would have done so in all his years traveling with Itachi? Yet he constantly express's that its unwise to use the eye. Highly suggesting that such a thing is impossible for him and any suggestion by you otherwise highly contradicts manga portrayal.

I would also like to note that the only way Samehada is going to feed Itachi Chakra is if Kisame manages to steal away some chakra from the other team. As normally there is not prep in a match. This means that Samehada would have no pre-stored chakra. Which counteracts the whole Susano'O argument due to him not being able to gather chakra from within Susano'O.

If Kisame decides to leave Susano'O to try and gather Chakra, he'll quickly be dispatched by Naruto's Kage Bunshin with a higher variant of Rasengan. Most likely Wakusei Rasengan or Rasnegan Rendan.​

​

This now means that a Complete Susano'o coupled with two of the most arguably dangerous weapons in the verse are able to stay up for quite the time, and any eye damage done can be repaired and undone. The only direct threat now becomes Gaara and his sand Tsunami. But, luckily, Kisame is able to counter this fighting style with relative ease. As he possesses a ninjutsu that turns the earth around him into a liquid state [

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]. Which I find it incredibly doubtful to see Gaara maintain manipulation when the sand changes its principles.

Im debating for Naruto alone. You can take this up with someone that actually believes Naruto can't take this by himself.​

​

The Shadow Clones and Original are still able to be caught by Genjutsu, making it easy to rid one or two's presence from the battle field like that, for once caught they will be dispatched easily with well, anything. They're shadow Clones. This can continue going up until a majority of the Shadow Clones have died out or are a safe distance away. Allowing both the Akatsuki to now begin a counter strike.

As demonstrated by Kakashi, Kage Bunshin can be caught in Genjutsu but are not subject to the

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. Itachi even implies that the Kage Bunshin was completely unaffected.

Making any attempt at Genjutsu a waste of chakra. As Itachi can't determine which Naruto is the original without the Eien no Mangekyo, and with the large amount of Kage Bunshin that are unaffected by Genjutsu in play, even if the real Naruto were to be caught by a Genjutsu a Kage Bunshin would break him out.​

​

Flooding the battle field and sitting atop of the water will be the first act done. While making them vulnerable to attacks by a Shadow Clone from underneath, with both Shadow Clones and Mizubunshin their 'rear' can be covered and at the least defended by a last minute Daikōdan. No matter the size, it will absorb the chakra shroud from Naruto and any rasengan variant he uses. Not to mention that when Kisame does merge with Samehada, he no longer needs protection from Itachi. Freeing up both shinobi to fully go on the all out assault.

Baksuishoha allows Naruto easier access to under Susano'O, simply allowing him to dive underwater and attack from below with chakra arms strong enough to crush stone pillars. Or launch a Fuuton Rasen-Shruiken underwater and have it detonate directly under them. There's also barraging

If Kisame uses Water Dome, then he's drowning Itachi as well. Doing part of Naruto's job for him. While Naruto has shown to be able to move perfect fine in water while using the

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. There's also the option of using Kuchiyose and using the Toads jumping power to launch themselves out of the dome.

And as before, If Kisame leaves Susano'O, then he'll have multiple Kage Bunshin on top of him with their superior combat speed. Attacking with multiple Rasengan variants and Chou Mini Bijudama, which will exceed Samehada's absorbing limits.​

​

 

[Penguin]

Team two should win this.

 

[Unorthodox]

damn good debate but people even using FRS isnt a problem one amaterasu makes it useless but yea i dont know who wins leaning towards team naruto but kisame murks gaara

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Team one take this rather easily.

Itachi take out Naruto with genjutsu, since he don't have help from Kurama and than they both destroy Gaara, or Kisame alone destroy Gaara alone, he is capable of doing so.