[Discussion] "It will break the Monster Trio"

[WolfHaley]

Your missing some points as well. Oda has already confirmed Chopper, Nami and Usopp as the W3 and said that they'll always be the W3. This was after Chopper, Nami and Usopp were referred to as the W3. Thought not directly confirned yet, is it too far fetched to think that the M3, Luffy Zoro and Sanji, will always the the top 3 SHs? You know, since they have been portrayed as the top 3 SHs since the beginning of One Piece? Jimbei, a man who was equal to Luffy as of Fishman Island, delaying his recruitment supports that. Jimbei fits all of the SH criterias perfectly and completely follows the SH recruitment pattern so he'll definately be a SH.

I just noticed something, most of the people who goes against the M3 thing usually wants people like Kuzan or Sabo to join. Your all thinking in present tense. If someone joins the SHs, the M3 has to be stronger than them. Theres no evidence or hints in the manga that goes against that.

Oda never said that. The only thing Oda has said concerning a ranking is that Usopp will always be the weakest.
While they have been portrayed as the top three, the pattern that this established has been broke. Them being the top three has not mattered for a while. Sanji is the bottom of the three, yet he is facing the greatest threat to them right now. Oda does not care for the Monster Trio concept, that much is obvious, seeing as how he hasn't used that pattern since Enies Lobby.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Oda never said that. The only thing Oda has said concerning a ranking is that Usopp will always be the weakest.
While they have been portrayed as the top three, the pattern that this established has been broke. Them being the top three has not mattered for a while. Sanji is the bottom of the three, yet he is facing the greatest threat to them right now. Oda does not care for the Monster Trio concept, that much is obvious, seeing as how he hasn't used that pattern since Enies Lobby.

You still don't get it. The top 3 SHs don't always have to fight the top 3 bad guys of an arc(Luffy vs 1st strongest, Zoro vs 2nd strongest, Sanji vs 3rd strongest). It'll be bad writing, predictable and repetitve if Oda kept doing that. Switching up the match-ups keeps things interesting and is overall a smart call for Oda. No establishment has been broken.

Oh you said that the M3 thing hasn't been portrayed since Enies Lobby? What about Luffy vs Moriah, Zoro vs Ryuuma and Sanji vs Absalom of Thriller Bark? Don't mention Oz. All the SHs fought him together. Btw, the only pattern that is always used by Oda is that Luffy fight the MAIN BAD GUY(not always the strongest or most dangerous) in an arc.

 

[U mAd]

here's the thing people at the end of story zoro luffy and sanji are always gonna be the top fighters of the crew.even if some one else joins he or she will be weaker or equal to zoro and sanji.didin't mention luffy cause no one stronger or equal to him will be joining him.he's the captian.

 

[Tobiramas]

First of all he isn't the first mate, and if he was what does rank have anything to do with it ?

Why would there be a line between Luffy and Zoro and the rest ? If Jimbei joins he has a good chance of coming in between Luffy and Zoro.

It all depends on who would join. You can't say in advance that Luffy's and Zoro's position are set in stone.

Not by name, but he is the unofficial first mate and it has to do with everything. Considering he is the second in command, he can't be below anyone besides the captain

 

[WolfHaley]

Not by name, but he is the unofficial first mate and it has to do with everything. Considering he is the second in command, he can't be below anyone besides the captain

Usopp is the closest thing to first mate officially tho, which is better than unofficial first mate

Usopp: If you're gone, I'm captain now
Luffy: Sure, whatever.

Usopp is first mate, canon.

 

[U mAd]

Not by name, but he is the unofficial first mate and it has to do with everything. Considering he is the second in command, he can't be below anyone besides the captain

whenever luffy's not around/in trouble or even when luffy's in the picture sanji does all the planning stuff and the commanding stuff like assigning roles to people.

1.saved the whole crew in arabasta
2.opened the gates of jsutice
3.told ussop how to save robin
4.decided on how to proceed after learning that each cp9 had one key each.

 

[Tobiramas]

1- Luffy's first crewmate
2- Recognised as the first mate by many including Urouge and Bartolomeo
3- The symbolism around him taking Luffy's pain

All that shows him undoubtely as the first mate of the crew

 

[U mAd]

1- Luffy's first crewmate
2- Recognised as the first mate by many including Urouge and Bartolomeo
3- The symbolism around him taking Luffy's pain

All that shows him undoubtely as the first mate of the crew

he's the first mate no arguing about that just about vice captian position. as i said in the earlier post sanji has better qualities for it.and just know that this isn't a comparison of strengths between those two.

 

[WolfHaley]

1- Luffy's first crewmate
2- Recognised as the first mate by many including Urouge and Bartolomeo
3- The symbolism around him taking Luffy's pain

All that shows him undoubtely as the first mate of the crew

1. First mate doesn't have to be the first one that joined.
2. Only Urouge called him the first mate. I'm still waiting on a scan of Barto calling him that. Also, what the hell does Urouge know? He's seen the Strawhats once, and all of a sudden, his word on who's first mate is law? Please, the WG labelled Chopper a mere pet. Being that they've kept better tabs on the Strawhats than Urouge, and are better informed, I guess Chopper is a pet and not their doctor then...
3. It was commented on by Sanji than any of the Strawhats would have done the same.

 

[Tobiramas]

The role of a First Mate is not to exert authority over the crew so much as it is to support the Captain. When the Captain isn’t around, or when the Captain falters, it falls to the First Mate to uphold the Captain’s will.

Initially, Zoro was more of an ally than a crewmember, even going so far as to issue Luffy a dire ultimatum. Zoro put his own dream above everything else. However, his entire character arc has been about evolving past that selfish isolation and growing into his role as Luffy’s support, as a friend. Heck, for all intents and purposes, his character arc is about becoming Luffy’s First Mate. As the Strawhats progress through the Grand Line, Luffy and Zoro begin to defer to one another and begin to show a level of inherent understanding that baffles those around them – sometimes even fellow crewmembers. Luffy just needs to look at Zoro and Zoro will pick up on his Captain’s intent. Thus, if Luffy needs something done, he turns to Zoro.

Occasionally, the story reaches points where Luffy’s resolve is tested. One of the most important of these points occurs in Water 7, when Usopp challenges Luffy’s authority and leaves the crew. After the fight, Luffy, horrified to lose a friend, cries and hides his face, complaining of his burden. It’s Zoro that ‘reminds’ him that “It’s a Captain’s burden.” When Usopp seeks to return to the crew, it’s Zoro who ‘advises’ Luffy that Usopp shouldn’t be allowed to return without an apology, without submission to Luffy. Zoro, not Luffy, is the one to uphold the structure of the crew.

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Then comes Thriller Bark, which hammers home just how far Zoro has come since he initially met Luffy. Zoro places himself, his dream, his skill, his whole life beneath Luffy’s. He strips away his agency and outright states that without Luffy, his own existence, his own desires are worthless.

That’s the act of a First Mate. He's the Captain's right hand. So whether Zoro gets the fancy title or not, he fills the role and disputing it is ridiculous

 

[U mAd]

The role of a First Mate is not to exert authority over the crew so much as it is to support the Captain. When the Captain isn’t around, or when the Captain falters, it falls to the First Mate to uphold the Captain’s will.

Initially, Zoro was more of an ally than a crewmember, even going so far as to issue Luffy a dire ultimatum. Zoro put his own dream above everything else. However, his entire character arc has been about evolving past that selfish isolation and growing into his role as Luffy’s support, as a friend. Heck, for all intents and purposes, his character arc is about becoming Luffy’s First Mate. As the Strawhats progress through the Grand Line, Luffy and Zoro begin to defer to one another and begin to show a level of inherent understanding that baffles those around them – sometimes even fellow crewmembers. Luffy just needs to look at Zoro and Zoro will pick up on his Captain’s intent. Thus, if Luffy needs something done, he turns to Zoro.

Occasionally, the story reaches points where Luffy’s resolve is tested. One of the most important of these points occurs in Water 7, when Usopp challenges Luffy’s authority and leaves the crew. After the fight, Luffy, horrified to lose a friend, cries and hides his face, complaining of his burden. It’s Zoro that ‘reminds’ him that “It’s a Captain’s burden.” When Usopp seeks to return to the crew, it’s Zoro who ‘advises’ Luffy that Usopp shouldn’t be allowed to return without an apology, without submission to Luffy. Zoro, not Luffy, is the one to uphold the structure of the crew.

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Then comes Thriller Bark, which hammers home just how far Zoro has come since he initially met Luffy. Zoro places himself, his dream, his skill, his whole life beneath Luffy’s. He strips away his agency and outright states that without Luffy, his own existence, his own desires are worthless.

That’s the act of a First Mate. He's the Captain's right hand. So whether Zoro gets the fancy title or not, he fills the role and disputing it is ridiculous

so you are going with firstmate=vice captian logic.the first 2 parts of your post were just your own speculation.

1.zoro does nothing more then fighting in most of the arcs.
2.zoro sleeps on the ship most of the time.
3.i wouldn't call him stupid but everyone excluding luffy is smarter then him in general terms.
4.when zoro decided not to let ussop back in to the crew without an apology sani supported it too.
5.any crew member would have taken the hit for luffy.
6.not just zoro all of the crew gets closer to eachother as they spend more time together and warms up to each other.

 

[WolfHaley]

The role of a First Mate is not to exert authority over the crew so much as it is to support the Captain. When the Captain isn’t around, or when the Captain falters, it falls to the First Mate to uphold the Captain’s will.

Initially, Zoro was more of an ally than a crewmember, even going so far as to issue Luffy a dire ultimatum. Zoro put his own dream above everything else. However, his entire character arc has been about evolving past that selfish isolation and growing into his role as Luffy’s support, as a friend. Heck, for all intents and purposes, his character arc is about becoming Luffy’s First Mate. As the Strawhats progress through the Grand Line, Luffy and Zoro begin to defer to one another and begin to show a level of inherent understanding that baffles those around them – sometimes even fellow crewmembers. Luffy just needs to look at Zoro and Zoro will pick up on his Captain’s intent. Thus, if Luffy needs something done, he turns to Zoro.

Occasionally, the story reaches points where Luffy’s resolve is tested. One of the most important of these points occurs in Water 7, when Usopp challenges Luffy’s authority and leaves the crew. After the fight, Luffy, horrified to lose a friend, cries and hides his face, complaining of his burden. It’s Zoro that ‘reminds’ him that “It’s a Captain’s burden.” When Usopp seeks to return to the crew, it’s Zoro who ‘advises’ Luffy that Usopp shouldn’t be allowed to return without an apology, without submission to Luffy. Zoro, not Luffy, is the one to uphold the structure of the crew.

You must be registered for see images

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Then comes Thriller Bark, which hammers home just how far Zoro has come since he initially met Luffy. Zoro places himself, his dream, his skill, his whole life beneath Luffy’s. He strips away his agency and outright states that without Luffy, his own existence, his own desires are worthless.

That’s the act of a First Mate. He's the Captain's right hand. So whether Zoro gets the fancy title or not, he fills the role and disputing it is ridiculous

I could just as easily link to the page where Sanji interjects to calm down the situation between Usopp and Luffy.
Or pages where Nami guided the crew during storms.
Or pages where Franky spoke similar to Zoro get Luffy to let the crew help the Tontottas.

It all further proves to my point, there is no one person who picks up where Luffy may slack, because they all may slack and someone will be there to pick it up for them. What I'm trying to say is similar to what someone else above said, Luffy isn't the type of crew that has a first mate or vice captain, because there are times where they all do something that guides the crew's action.

Franky has done it with helping the tontottas.
Nami has done it during storms and during Punk Hazard
Zoro has done it when it came to Usopp
Sanji is doing something similar now by guiding the crew against Big Mom's ship.
Luffy's crew isn't the type to have a ranking system because they are all equally important, especially to each other.

 

[Orochimaruslayer]

It could still be M3 even after Jinbe joins because Luffy is just on a level of his own and then its zoro Jinbe and sanji.