Islam is the religion of peace they say

-Phoënix Flower-

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You're not quite getting it, Phoenix. You are a Pakistani living in Pakistan, correct? (One of the most savage countries)
We're not just talking ISIS here. We're talking the fact that east-asian/arabian muslims are a problem in Europe. Their religion and culture looks militant with the aggression that underlies the systematically indoctrinated sense of pride they uphold.

I'm talking the fact that the amount of muslim ***-offenders in my country topples the amount of native dutch ***-offenders. Most other crimes are young. muslim. men and carribean folks. Trouble makers in my school were primarily young muslim boys. I've always said their culture only focuses on thoroughly indoctrinating these children but does not focus on their upbringing towards western principals as much. The vile things I could tell you I witnessed by the hands of young muslim men.. Women wearing burkas completely flabbergasted when the 100% dutch mother of one of my best friends has the nerve to talk to a muslim man instead of her husband.. don't let me even start about the knife attacks on me..

Hawker is talking the fact that most ***-offenders in Finland are young muslim men. Most other crimes are young muslim men.
This goes for Sweden, Denmark, Germany, etc! I grew up between these savages. I have muslim friends who are good people in general but will stay silent about their approval of sharia law when they see our responses.

We are talking about everyday ordinary people. Not terrorist organisations only. It's obvious that western countries support ISIS by financing, arming and training them.

I think the very core of Islam, just like any other religion is peaceful indeed. Not that any self-proclaimed followers are capable of understanding these teachings, let alone apply them. But how can a supposedly peaceful community produce more criminals than the natives of western european nations?

Anywho, muslims keep defending themselves on the matter of ISIS which is understandable. But they tend to ignore the fact that 15 to 25% of the 1.6 billion muslims silently support sharia law or the outdated desert santa logic in general. Which makes for about 300 million muslims..almost the entire population of u.s.a.

And what I'm trying to say is ,just because someone claims to be a Muslim ,or has a Muslim name ,does not by any means he is practicing the real laws of Islam. If anything , look at the lives of our Prophet and his followers if you want an understanding of what Islam actually teaches. They're the ones who truly knew , practiced and preached Islam in the right way. And there are countless such people that exist even today but they are overshadowed by the black sheep and never highlighted. Pakistani Muslims donate for charity the most after US. That's just one of the many things I could highlight. Our religion has been interpreted in many different ways and that's one of the reasons behind all the chaos. I'm sorry if the majority of the Muslims you've come across are bad people ,but I would say otherwise. I belong to a country where terrorism has deep roots but I know who's actually behind it. But I don't go on pointing fingers at the entire population just because some of them have polluted the sea.

P.S; We need more debaters like you YowYan.
 
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YowYan

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And what I'm trying to say is ,just because someone claims to be a Muslim ,or has a Muslim name ,does not by any means he is practicing the real laws of Islam. If anything , look at the lives of our Prophet and his followers if you want an understanding of what Islam actually teaches. They're the ones who truly knew , practiced and preached Islam in the right way. And there are countless such people that exist even today but they are overshadowed by the black sheep and never highlighted. Pakistani Muslims donate for charity the most after US. That's just one of the many things I could highlight. Our religion has been interpreted in many different ways and that's one of the reasons behind all the chaos. I'm sorry if the majority of the Muslims you've come across are bad people ,but I would say otherwise. I belong to a country where terrorism has deep roots but I know who's actually behind it. But I don't go on pointing fingers at the entire population just because some of them have polluted the sea.

P.S; We need more debaters like you YowYan.

I highlighted the parts that actually answer your post so no need to read the rest.

I, personally, do not accept any self-proclaimed follower of religious scripts to be righteously representing the depth of its teachings. None. None of them make any sense for common sense people. The only ones I accept are the people that do not even identify themselves with any religious community but naturally apply the written parts that make sense, break down systems of thought and promote out-of-the-box interpretations. (in my case; astrology and spirituality being the core of all religion but wrapped around fictitious stories) I don't like it when people say ''our religion'', they already failed by doing that.

The peaceful populace of a community matters not. It is the hostile ones that scream the loudest so they're the ones being heard. In my country, a right-wing political party has been gaining momentum for years now due to the moroccan pest. That party wants to deport any muslim criminals which I think makes sense. Muslims were aggravated over this but most of them kept calm. They would do the same as you, defending Islam which is also understandable but do not want to be told to adapt to our culture or leave.

Fact remains that for organized religion, people uphold a system of belief straight out of the dark ages that have no business in present day society. And they will fight with all their might to uphold just that. One of the results is segregation of peoples. Another is that it produces more youth that are indoctrinated rather than taught to question (evolving, mentally). ANOTHER result is that more simpletons and savages are produced under these outdated cultures and they are a pest to European nations. Pakistanis in the UK protest, not against the 1000+ molested children but, against the CCTV-cameras that they are mandated to have in their cabs afterwards. Only simpleton savages would do such a thing. My own ex-girlfriend her father is, belief it or not, from Pakistani Royalty. He had his own harem, 20 maids, his private jet, etc etc. And he was a detestable savage. I'll spare you the details. Sure, there will be normal families sprouting from that culture, but the statistics will show you a tremendous difference between civil rights in Pakistan and civil rights in any western European nation. We get our opinion on Islam negatively influenced by western and zionist regimes but aside of that wouldn't care for muslims in the negative sense if they weren't such a pest in many places in the EU. Ofcourse I'm well aware USA and the UN ignores one of the worst human rights violators which is Saudi Arabia an Israel because the saudi Royalty and the zionist jews are allies.

Many learn to adapt when they move to Europe but still a large number clash with our laws and principals. And they often do it under the banner of Islam, sadly. (Not that we don't have christian retardation over here but the natives are less loud and aggressive)

Just adding that my own parents' culture, no religion being involved, also produces many problematic youth in my country. They're close to the Moroccans in terms of criminality.
 
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Hawker

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And what I'm trying to say is ,just because someone claims to be a Muslim ,or has a Muslim name ,does not by any means he is practicing the real laws of Islam. If anything , look at the lives of our Prophet and his followers if you want an understanding of what Islam actually teaches. They're the ones who truly knew , practiced and preached Islam in the right way. And there are countless such people that exist even today but they are overshadowed by the black sheep and never highlighted. Pakistani Muslims donate for charity the most after US. That's just one of the many things I could highlight. Our religion has been interpreted in many different ways and that's one of the reasons behind all the chaos. I'm sorry if the majority of the Muslims you've come across are bad people ,but I would say otherwise. I belong to a country where terrorism has deep roots but I know who's actually behind it. But I don't go on pointing fingers at the entire population just because some of them have polluted the sea.

P.S; We need more debaters like you YowYan.

Islam teaches that the penalty for apostasy is death.

That's all I need to know about your so called "peaceful religion". It is your choice to represent an ideology like that. But remember when you do that, you are saying it's ok to kill a person for not believing the same thing you believe.
 

orochimaru

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Wow. That was disturbing. Good thing I've had Muslim friends, or else I might have been ignorant enough to generalize all of them.
But if I ever see those friends again, I just might hit them in their jaws for smiling and laughing with me to my face while they worshipped a book that says to kill all "infidels" wherever they find them. I didn't know about the Quran commanding violence upon non-Muslims at the time.
I let them in my home many times, where my family was. My family and I, to them, are infidels. That's pretty damn disturbing and insulting.

My friend , the verse that orders Muslims to kill infidels wherever they can be found was specific to an era of war waged by Quraish againts Muslims in Makka... read things in its context , otherwise you will misjudge innocent people.

ISIS doesn't represent Islam cus their mission to deform the image of Islam by taking verses out of their context "on pupose"
 

orochimaru

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Islam teaches that the penalty for apostasy is death.

That's all I need to know about your so called "peaceful religion". It is your choice to represent an ideology like that. But remember when you do that, you are saying it's ok to kill a person for not believing the same thing you believe.

Actually you are wrong . There people were muslims and they are now non-muslims and living in peace. What Islam teaches that if someone left the religion oh his own free will peacefully then its fine, but if he left the religion and then tried to form an opposite front and calling people to leave the religion as well, then the death penalty is due cuz he is trying to tear the nation apart. This is the difference. Hell this is a norm in all countries even outside of Islam's shadow.

hope this helps .
 

Hawker

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Actually you are wrong . There people were muslims and they are now non-muslims and living in peace. What Islam teaches that if someone left the religion oh his own free will peacefully then its fine, but if he left the religion and then tried to form an opposite front and calling people to leave the religion as well, then the death penalty is due cuz he is trying to tear the nation apart. This is the difference. Hell this is a norm in all countries even outside of Islam's shadow.

hope this helps .

You are wrong

"The right to be convinced and to convert from Islam to another religion is held by only a minority of Muslim scholars. This view of religious freedom is, however, not shared by the vast majority of Muslim scholars both past as well as present. Most classical and modern Muslim jurists regard apostasy (riddah), defined by them as an act of rejection of faith committed by a Muslim whose Islam had been affirmed without coercion, as a crime deserving the death penalty. "
-Abdul Rashied Omar

References from hadith which further prove my point:

"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271"

It is true however that muslim scholars argue that the reason for the death penalty is not the disbelief itself but to eliminate the danger of war. Which is ofcourse ridiculous and a way of trying to justify the fact that you are killing a person for his disbelief, for his opinion. Nonetheless they kill him anyway.
 
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Bronze

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Do your words really matter? Here are facts you should be interested to know:

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion; estimates say that by 2050-2070, Islam will overtake Christianity to become the most populous religion in the world.

2. 1990–2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity.

Suck it up.
 

PT1990

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If anything , look at the lives of our Prophet and his followers if you want an understanding of what Islam actually teaches.

Even your prophet was no saint, you know.
Do your words really matter? Here are facts you should be interested to know:

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion; estimates say that by 2050-2070, Islam will overtake Christianity to become the most populous religion in the world.

2. 1990–2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity.

Suck it up.

And thats what is really scary.
 

Naiz Malik

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M a Muslim,too..If some Muslims kill any other person if it is Muslim or not..doesn't matter..the killer is not a Muslim anymore..we dont consider Daesh as Muslims..well.i feel ashamed whenever i hear that Muslim did that..and Muslim people who are killing others are just going crazy..Our Islam doesn't give us permission to kill any other person whether its Muslim or not..and Islam doesn't give us any that kind of right to force someone to change his religion..yeah..i know those Muslims are not doing right who are killing innocent people..but Muslims are victims too..like in India, they are being forced to change their religion to Hindus..why?..Hindus are not giving rights to Muslim..they are not giving Freedom to those who dont want to live with them..like jamu kashmir..we have our right,too..
 

Naiz Malik

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Bronze..thats because Muslims are right..people are not just turning into Muslims for fun..
 

Naiz Malik

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PT1990 and what dis u mean by no saint...? explain clearly..i would like to know what u think
 

YowYan

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Do your words really matter? Here are facts you should be interested to know:

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion; estimates say that by 2050-2070, Islam will overtake Christianity to become the most populous religion in the world.

2. 1990–2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity.

Suck it up.

This shows the spirit of conquest behind Islamic fanatics. (Christians too, but much less militant.)
Alot of muslims speak of rising in number (like an army) as if it's a victory and a promise to the world. In the UK entire neighbourhoods started ethnic cleansing and are promising ''kuffars'' that Islam will dominate the world.

How is that something to be proud of, Bronze?
 

Naiz Malik

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and one more thing..Pakistan is the 2nd Muslim largest state..some time ago..maybe u guys know about that girl Giitah..what about her?..she is a Hindu from India..She was living in Edhi centre(orphanage) for 15 years..she came when she was only 1 or 2 years old..why didnt anyone try to turn her in a Muslim..huh? she lived as a Hindu in pakistan..she was given equal rights as the all kids were there given..and she couldn't speak too..but when she went back to india maybe 2 months ago..people who considered her as their daughter were actually fraud..WE, Muslims have no right to turn any non-muslim into Muslim..
 

Bronze

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Bronze..thats because Muslims are right..people are not just turning into Muslims for fun..

True.

This shows the spirit of conquest behind Islamic fanatics. (Christians too, but much less militant.)
Alot of muslims speak of rising in number (like an army) as if it's a victory and a promise to the world. In the UK entire neighbourhoods started ethnic cleansing and are promising ''kuffars'' that Islam will dominate the world.

How is that something to be proud of, Bronze?

Only Salafis have world domination agenda. I have no such agenda. I was making a point to this thread.
 

PT1990

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PT1990 and what dis u mean by no saint...? explain clearly..i would like to know what u think

What I mean is that he was a war lord and slave owner. Not to mention that he had *** with 9 year old girl...
 

Hawker

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Do your words really matter? Here are facts you should be interested to know:

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion; estimates say that by 2050-2070, Islam will overtake Christianity to become the most populous religion in the world.

2. 1990–2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity.

Suck it up.

Numbers can mislead people easily. Especially when half of the population is under the average IQ.

135 million (40%) of americans believe that God created the earth 10 000 years ago.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.
 

Naiz Malik

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PT1990 where did u read about the last thing?..who told you this non sense..??..
 

Honord Sage

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Muslim Religion expanded by conquest of lands from the very beginning. They instilled a policy of Taxing Non Muslim at a higher rated then Muslim thus forcing non Muslims to convert. Egypt was Christian with its own Language Coptic the language of Ancient Egypt. Lebanon,Jordan,Syria were Christian and spoke Aramaic that today survives as Syriac.
 

shelke

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I wonder why no one brings out the topic of the indiscriminate, systematic mindless slaughter of countless innocents at the hands of Western lobby in that region. But ‘religion’, apparently, is the bigger picture here. Few people die in Paris and all hell breaks loose. Facebook has a filter, people cry 'ATROCITY' everywhere on the media etc; the whole thing looks comical. Countless die in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan etc over West's wars of ‘operation terrorist cleansing’, but those are brushed under the rug as unimportant issues, despite being the root cause of these tragedies. Who the **** cares? Selective humanity and disgusting bigotry, that is what it is.

As for the thread question, then (to go off a tangent a bit) what does the West expect ... exactly? ISIS is nothing more than yet another propaganda tool to keep that war-train going in that region to rob it of its resources. People have been bombed into oblivion in that region. That leaves lone family members, left alive amongst the scene of human shambles of their loved ones.

Those minds are easy to mold by these 'funded' organizations’ heads ... and lo and behold, you have an average terrorist who is willing to kill himself/herself and take as many with them, as guided by the king-pins, shouting Allah, and the West hilariously chants, ‘he got his 72 virgins’. They have nothing but hate for the West, and rightfully so. Most of these people are uneducated and belong from lower strata of the society (the grunts who happily blow themselves up anyway). Do you actually believe they know the political tensions between the left and right wing parties? Haha, I hope to God (and I am no deist), that people in the West are not THAT dumb. But I won’t hold my breath.

They see anyone as a threat to their cause who side with the West, even Muslims. Which is why the grunts appear so zealot and drone-like militia men. Now, the book is there. And yes, it CAN be interpreted in a variety of ways; all ideological setups can be. It is in their subsidiary texts, for crying out loud. Countless murdered for Ivory Trade by White men? Patriotic ideology molded. It is justified for the Nation. Knights hung and burned alive by the religious lobby after those poor men won their Kings’ wars? Justified in the light of religious text. Muslims butchered by Buddhists in the recent infamous incident? Infidels. Why would Islam be any different? Think!

But let me make the thinking easy for people here: The problem isn’t the text, it is the interpreting lobby. For example, Honor Killing (of unmarried couple) is unlawful, or borderline haram in Islam. Only stoning to death of adulterers is, or the punishable married individual(s). Now, why is it that so many women are murdered in the name of honor in South Asia, Middle East and African Muslim countries when the text itself is against it? It is because of the lack of education concerning THE text. The so-called pseudo-knowledgeable people many go to have the power to warp the teachings and present the views to peddle an agenda; let it be a minor, nonpolitical issue. The text basically provides a leeway, the rest of the way is paved by the people themselves.

Mind you, in all major Muslim countries, people who organize mob-seminars have the power to control the masses, as the masses remain ignorant of what the text states. They have little knowhow of the media, as the western media is evil (as declared by the religious lobby) because of the astronomically vast cultural maw, or they simply choose to be that way (despite being educated) because the indoctrination and bigotry keeps them a part of their own yard-communions.

I have seen the people captured by the military (my father retired from Armed forces not long ago), and they … they looked mentally ill. They spewed incoherent gibberish about ‘Allah and prophet’ and some bizarre justifications to kill all people by killing themselves. Many agreed with me that these people were a byproducts of Western bombing in the Northwestern regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the systematic brain-washing of their leaders, cloaked in mystery … that offered them aid when they were left devastated, isolated … and homeless.

So, who is creating these terrorists? West, who else. Who is responsible for these antics and innocent deaths? West. Qatar was already funding another group via a chain created through USA, and another group was thrown into the warring regions, resulting in more innocent lives lost … like the resent tragedy we saw in Paris. French solution? Bomb the hell out of that region … and create more mindless drones to kill more people.

I suggest people look at the bigger political propaganda, rather than ask these petulant questions, 'herderp Ishlam ish peashful or not herpderp', as no damned ideology is EVER peaceful given the tiny leeway it has for further agenda peddling and self-righteous movement. But, this is NB. I cannot even imagine what the families of the victims go through, but steps should be taken to reduce the level of slaughter that creates pretty words like collateral damage.

The media is only adding fuel to the fire by creating the 'US versus THEM' mindset amongst the West, when their own political lobby is directly responsible for this mass-scale political mess. This reminds me of the time when people chanted in the favour of bombing Afghanistan way back after 9/11. I hope the people in America are happy that millions have died in a war, when theories are now afoot that it always WAS a sham.

The Bible, too, encourages killing in self-defense and in defense of your family, so I can't be mad at the Quran for that.
But from what I've read and seen all over the media, if a non-Muslim refuses to convert to Islam, then we are to be put to death immediately, whether it's by chopping off our heads or any other gruesome method.

Eh ... you got it backwards. The death penalty is there, but not for a non-Muslim, but for a Muslim who forsakes his/hers religion. I am not sure how many Muslim countries have that in their laws, but countries like Saudi Arabia (and those who practice Sharia Law down to a T) definitely practice this rite. Because, the punishment is supposed to be a rite of cleansing in a way that that person would be tried and punished in this life and won't have to face the fires of hell ... something to that effect.

So, to put it in a short and concise manner, your knowledge on this front is off.
 
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