Islam: Is It Able To Be Reformed? How Do We Go About Reforming It?

[kimb]

What are you talking about have you not been saying Islam is not the root cause of terrorism? Lol trying to move the goal post again. Most Muslims don't find the Muslim world actually following Islamic principles.

No Islam doesn't promote the indiscriminate attacking of Christians and Jews if you know the history they lived with them before the first Islamic state started.

Also I'm going to assume someone gave you false info but at no times ever is suicide or killing an innocent accepted. To the point someone stops and gives up in middle of battle you respect it and and not do harm to them no matter what the circumstance.

If you mean telling you about the struggles people go through and saying how you dismiss it or ignore it either to get off your point or simple bias than yes you've done that. And I never said you did the actions but choosing to ignore it is implicitly accepting it.

In the end of the day I knew this would be the response a non response I'm not even gonna go into what your doing. I just wanted to put some clarity to the situation at this point for me anyways there's nothing else to be said.

You're full of it, Sagebee.

 

[Lelouch Vii Britannia]

Here's a suggestion, stop attacking the middle east then we could see some change

Islam is already good and needs no reform (and before you act like a smart ass and tell me its not, just remember that you have not been to a single islamic school nor have had an in depth study of the religion) islam is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in, its like claim that you have knowledge of building a tower just by looking at the design while you have not had any studies in it

Now here the real reason why radicals exist, there are many factors to this very few of them religious, isis was created thanks to constant bombing of the middle east that left peoples families dead and homeless, filled by hate they resorted to the one person they could ask help for: God, then they started searching and preaching to the locals at how evil westerns are and bought verse to justify their shit cause, competely ignoring the other commands of not killing an innocent person etc

Also hint to any dumb western who cries about isis attack, we are the ones fighting isis not you, im sure that didnt reach you so i'll repeat it again: Muslims are the ones fighting isis, (i bet it still didnt reach but you cant solve stupidity)

My point in all of this? Islam needs absolutely no reform (i have no time to explain, and the fact that internet trolls use verse as their "evidence" without knowing its full meaning is absolutely hilarious) just stop bombing the middle east

 

[kimb]

Here's a suggestion, stop attacking the middle east then we could see some change

Islam is already good and needs no reform (and before you act like a smart ass and tell me its not, just remember that you have not been to a single islamic school nor have had an in depth study of the religion) islam is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in, its like claim that you have knowledge of building a tower just by looking at the design while you have not had any studies in it

Now here the real reason why radicals exist, there are many factors to this very few of them religious, isis was created thanks to constant bombing of the middle east that left peoples families dead and homeless, filled by hate they resorted to the one person they could ask help for: God, then they started searching and preaching to the locals at how evil westerns are and bought verse to justify their shit cause, competely ignoring the other commands of not killing an innocent person etc

Also hint to any dumb western who cries about isis attack, we are the ones fighting isis not you, im sure that didnt reach you so i'll repeat it again: Muslims are the ones fighting isis, (i bet it still didnt reach but you cant solve stupidity)

My point in all of this? Islam needs absolutely no reform (i have no time to explain, and the fact that internet trolls use verse as their "evidence" without knowing its full meaning is absolutely hilarious) just stop bombing the middle east

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Then explain to me why there exists an entire Islamic reformation movement consisting of current practicing Muslims, Muslims Scholars, and Ex-Muslims? Btw, you're arguing from authority, which is a fallacy. Lets take your logic and see how consistent it is.

"you have not been to a single Islamic school nor have had an in depth study of the religion. Islam is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in, its like claim that you have knowledge of building a tower just by looking at the design while you have not had any studies in it"

"you have not taken a single feminist course, nor have had any in depth study of intersectionality. Feminism is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely study in"

"you have not read a single book of Nazi literature, nor have had any in depth study of our philosophy. Fascism is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in"

"you have not been to a single NAMBLA meeting, nor have you had any in depth study of our culture. Pedophilia is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in"

You're foolish if you truly believe people incapable critiquing or commenting on ideologies, philosophies, ideas because of a lack of expertise or "authority" assigned via scholarly credentials. Judging by your tone of speech and shit sentence structures, you were clearly emotional when you typed your response, possibly because you're currently practicing, so I don't think it's practical to think your response is free from bias, yet alone taking it into consideration.

 

[Lelouch Vii Britannia]

Then explain to me why there exists an entire Islamic reformation movement consisting of current practicing Muslims, Muslims Scholars, and Ex-Muslims ("Apostates")? Btw, you're arguing from authority, which is a fallacy. Lets take your logic and see how consistent it is.

"you have not been to a single Islamic school nor have had an in depth study of the religion. Islam is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in, its like claim that you have knowledge of building a tower just by looking at the design while you have not had any studies in it"

"you have not taken a single feminist course, nor have had any in depth study of intersectionality. Feminism is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely study in"

"you have not read a single book of Nazi literature, nor have had any in depth study of our philosophy. Fascism is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in"

"you have not been to a single NAMBLA meeting, nor have you had any in depth study of our culture. Pedophilia is not black and white and cant be interpreted by any retard who as absolutely has study in"

You're foolish if you truly believe people incapable critiquing or commenting on ideologies, philosophies, ideas because of a lack of expertise or "authority" assigned via scholarly credentials. Judging by your tone of speech and shit grammar, you're clearly emotional about this, possibly because you're currently practicing, so I don't think it's practical to think your response is free from bias.

Lol almost every religion has those

LOL are you seriously comparing feminism to a religion? Religions especially Abrahamic ones have a LOT more than feminism (rules,laws,how to pray) allso Feminism is not a mystery and you dont have to study to know its full meaning (unless you want statistics and the explanation of rape culture etc), to understand islam you have to have the basic teaching, and if you want to interpret verses (correctly) you have to have knowledge of 3 thing and that is the quran,hadith and the prophets story (the story helps identify who the quran was talking about and why etc) this is why i said its not black and white because its huge

When did i say that you have to to be a scholar? Dear god i meant that you should do your basic research before spewing shit, understand the verses meaning in the simplest google search (from unbiased sites) and yes you do need to study about what you talking about (not you an expert critic)

But the point still stands isis was made thanks to destruction done by the good and freedom loving democratic western countries in order to promote "liberty" and their litterally "death freedom"

Also stop being butthurt

 

[kimb]

Lol almost every religion has those

LOL are you seriously comparing feminism to a religion? Religions especially Abrahamic ones have a LOT more than feminism (rules,laws,how to pray) allso Feminism is not a mystery and you dont have to study to know its full meaning (unless you want statistics and the explanation of rape culture etc), to understand islam you have to have the basic teaching, and if you want to interpret verses (correctly) you have to have knowledge of 3 thing and that is the quran,hadith and the prophets story (the story helps identify who the quran was talking about and why etc) this is why i said its not black and white because its huge

"LMAO I seriously am!"...There's feminist theory, feminist philosophy, the social sciences behind feminism theory involving things like implicit bias and gender disparities, afrocentric feminism, and intersectional feminism, which then goes into race, sexuality, ecetera.

Feminism and Islam are both ideologies, so a comparsion between the two is not beyond belief; just like how Islam and every other religion can unfold into different branches and levels of nuance, political ideologies like feminism can branch out and appear just as complex and dubious.

When did i say that you have to to be a scholar? Dear god i meant that you should do your basic research before spewing shit, understand the verses meaning in the simplest google search (from unbiased sites) and yes you do need to study about what you talking about (not you an expert critic)

You went from saying I haven't even attended an Islamic school, to saying I just have to do basic research, then in the same paragraph, you say that I do in fact need to study. So which is it lad, basic research or study? "Inb4 bouf"

Youre attempting to chock up my position of reform to being ignorance on the topic (even though Islamic scholars and figure heads who have greater knowledge of Islam than both you and I side with my position) without demonstrating where Im ignorant; you simply disagree with me, and rather than making an actual argument, you want to assert that "I don't know what I'm talking about" based off that disagreement. You've failed to establish in what way I'm wrong.

Id also like to ask you what "shit" have I been "spewing". All I've done was ask a two part question and posted two videos as the basis of the discussion. If you want to quote either one of the videos and use as an example of my ignorance on the topic of Islam, feel free to do so. I confidently stand by everything both of those men said.

But the point still stands isis was made thanks to destruction done by the good and freedom loving democratic western countries in order to promote "liberty" and their litterally "death freedom"

Also stop being butthurt

"MUH ISIS"

Terrorism is the sacred cow of Islam defenders. You're not the first one to jump on terrorism as the "one thing" that's wrong, when in fact, it's one out of a plethora of things wrong with Islam.

Christianity condones slavery, promotes tribalism, and sets guidelines on killing those God deem full of sin, do you really think Islam is getting off scott-free with just terrorism? Nah nigga.

 

[Lelouch Vii Britannia]

"LMAO I seriously am!"...There's feminist theory, feminist philosophy, the social sciences behind feminism theory involving things like implicit bias and gender disparities, afrocentric feminism, and intersectional feminism, which then goes into race, sexuality, ecetera.

Feminism and Islam are both ideologies, so a comparsion between the two is not beyond belief; just like how Islam and every other religion can unfold into different branches and levels of nuance, political ideologies like feminism can branch out and appear just as complex and dubious.


You went from saying I haven't even attended an Islamic school, to saying I just have to do basic research, then in the same paragraph, you say that I do in fact need to study. So which is it lad, basic research or study? "Inb4 bouf"

Youre attempting to chock up my position of reform to being ignorance on the topic (even though Islamic scholars and figure heads who have greater knowledge of Islam than both you and I side with my position) without demonstrating where Im ignorant; you simply disagree with me, and rather than making an actual argument, you want to assert that "I don't know what I'm talking about" based off that disagreement. You've failed to establish in what way I'm wrong.

Id also like to ask you what "shit" have I been "spewing". All I've done was ask a two part question and posted two videos as the basis of the discussion. If you want to quote either one of the videos and use as an example of my ignorance on the topic of Islam, feel free to do so. I confidently stand by everything both of those men said.



"MUH ISIS"

Terrorism is the sacred cow of Islam defenders. You're not the first one to jump on terrorism as the "one thing" that's wrong, when in fact, it's one out of a plethora of things wrong with Islam.

Christianity condones slavery, promotes tribalism, and sets guidelines on killing those God deem full of sin, do you really think Islam is getting off scott-free with just terrorism? Nah nigga.

Ugh i didnt even want to turn this into a debate smh, please believe what you like, armed with knowledge of biased sites

Edit: you really misunderstood so many things i said lmao

 

[kimb]

Ugh i didnt even want to turn this into a debate smh, please believe what you like, armed with knowledge of biased sites

Edit: you really misunderstood so many things i said lmao

What ****ing sites? I actually own a Quran and a Hedith, you asshat.

 

[Lelouch Vii Britannia]

What ****ing sites? I actually own a Quran and a Hedith, you asshat.

Lol owning without understanding its meaning is not that useful, also lower that salt

Also you "own" a hadith? Wtf is that lmao? You do realize that a hadith is not a single thing (unless you meant you own a copy of every hadith) also thats not enough, you dont know what the quran even means, you have to know the prophets story so you can connect things (on whom the quran was talking about etc etc) and that requires study

Also please dont message if you keep wanting to be ignorant, i have studied islam for 13 years and know far more than you do

 

[Lightbringer]

Lol owning without understanding its meaning is not that useful, also lower that salt

Also you "own" a hadith? Wtf is that lmao? How can you own a hadith? *_*

Because he doesn't know what it is and probably doesn't own them.

 

[kimb]

Lol owning without understanding its meaning is not that useful, also lower that salt

Also you "own" a hadith? Wtf is that lmao? You do realize that a hadith is not a single thing (unless you meant you own a copy of every hadith) also thats not enough, you dont know what the quran even means, you have to know the prophets story so you can connect things (on whom the quran was talking about etc etc) and that requires study

Also please dont message if you keep wanting to be ignorant, i have studied islam for 13 years and know far more than you do

What don't I get? You're saying I'm incorrect because you disagree with my position; a position that's held by Islamic scholars. So your argument from authority (13 years of study) is irrelevant. You know your responses are baseless and reactionary.

You can't even use your "turdeen yeerz" of study in this discussion because I havent made an argument.

Because he doesn't know what it is and probably doesn't own them.

Put your account on it Lightbringer.

I provide a screenshot with a timestamp, and you get a life outside NB. It's an offer you can't refuse.

 

[Lelouch Vii Britannia]

What don't I get? You're saying I'm incorrect because you disagree with my position; a position that's held by Islamic scholars. So your argument from authority (13 years of study) is irrelevant. You know your responses are baseless and reactionary.

You can't even use your "turdeen yeerz" of study in this discussion because I havent made an argument.

Put your account on it Lightbringer.

I provide a screenshot with a timestamp, and you get a life outside NB. It's an offer you can't refuse.

Like a i said their is one for almost every religion and im not surprised islam has one, western muslims want to get a better image out, however how does that make them correct when we have not seen their arguments? (Please dont post them here im already sick of this debate) just a simple answer

Tbh im 80% of the time not even getting what your saying because of these strange terms lmao, what the hell is turdeen? The muh isis thing too, what are you even saying man

 

[kimb]

Like a i said their is one for almost every religion and im not surprised islam has one, western muslims want to get a better image out, however how does that make them correct when we have not seen their arguments? (Please dont post them here im already sick of this debate) just a simple answer

Tbh im 80% of the time not even getting what your saying because of these strange terms lmao, what the hell is turdeen? The muh isis thing too, what are you even saying man

I was mocking your "expertise" hence the quotes. It's all banter though, I have nothing personal against you.

I'm getting tired of this discussion too (if you can even call it a discussion), it's not going anywhere. I got a vacay coming up next week heading to Santo Domingo to catch up with the family, so I gotta prepare for the flight over the weekend.

Maybe we can try to have this discussion sometime in the future under better conditions. And even though I find 97% of religions obsolete in the modern world, Id still be interested in getting your interpretations of the Quran, preferably 1 on 1.

In the meantime, yall enjoy your summer where ever you are in the world. Peace and love.

 

[TheSyren]

i saw the title and knew i was going to get worked up reading it, but i had to go ahead and read it anyway. and since i dont want to seem ignorant, the only thing i can say is the following: there are always extremists in every religion, and its the extremist that we hate. i for one dont think islam needs to be reformed entirely, but certain aspects, like the control it gives men over women, needs to be removed. however, i dont think muslims in general are bad. like, i met a few in college that were so kind that it kind of made me a little ashamed to say i am a christian when i couldnt hold a candle's flame to their brightness.

 

[Lightbringer]

Put your account on it Lightbringer.

I provide a screenshot with a timestamp, and you get a life outside NB. It's an offer you can't refuse.

I really don't give a shit if you do or don't. This thread is toxic and I gain nothing from your bet.

You clearly have a vendetta against Islam as that's all you ever talk about.

 

[kimb]

I really don't give a shit if you do or don't. This thread is toxic and I gain nothing from your bet.

You clearly have a vendetta against Islam as that's all you ever talk about.

I know you don't give a shit, I just wanted to put your account out of commission. (Bantz)


"On a thread about Islam, all I talk about is Islam". :/

I think this might be my first thread on Islam, maybe even religion in general. All our interactions have been on opposite ends of political arguments, so to you it may look like all I talk about is Islam.

 

[Lightbringer]

"On a thread about Islam, all I talk about is Islam". :/

Not what I meant, but if you couldn't figure that out then it just proves that you're ignorant af.

 

[kimb]

Not what I meant, but if you couldn't figure that out then it just proves that you're ignorant af.

Check my thread history, fam. This is literally my first thread on Islam (If I remember correctly, I haven't checked myself).

 

[Lightbringer]

Check my thread history, fam. This is literally my first thread on Islam (If I remember correctly, I haven't checked myself).

Again, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that in most discussions with you, Islam is always brought up by you in some capacity or you go on threads that talk about Islam.

But I'm not here to debate with you. I'm just here to get a good laugh at the comments.

Carry on.

 

[The Work]

Maybe we should just lock our borders until Muslims get their stuff figured out.

 

[kimb]

Again, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that in most discussions with you, Islam is always brought up by you in some capacity or you go on threads that talk about Islam.

But I'm not here to debate with you. I'm just here to get a good laugh at the comments.

Carry on.

Yes. "In dissucions about Islam I talk about Islam". It's not like I bring up Islam in random threads that have NOTHING to do with it, Lightbringer. Many threads in general forums deal with religion, Islam, and terrorist attacks, so it's going to be a common topic.

Be real mate.