Isis Threatens Washington
- Thread starter Horus
- Start date
Isis isn't going to attack Washington, and they weren't behind the Paris shooting, Beirut bombing or Russian flight crash. Any attack in Washington that Isis takes credit for will be orchestrated by the US government.
baitcaster
Member
This is rich.
"I haven't studied the religion I claim to hold a deep conviction for and to represent, so I'm going to tell you what I think of it."
That's fine and dandy. You continue to pray five times next to the guy who will gang-rape a woman who isn't from your religion.
From what you make of it.
Taquiyya? Or simply naivete? Neither can be afforded, unfortunately. You are invited to turn from Islam.
You must be registered for see links
I'm curious... which is more important to you... the western values you espouse... or the commands listed within the Qu'ran....
9:14 Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people
This is a particularly interesting segment of the Qu'ran, because, here, Muhammad is revealing that God punishes through the hands of his believers and further qualifies that it is to satisfy the 'breasts of a believing people.' - In other words that when muslims take issue with the people around them, the desire to inflict harm upon them is god's way of bringing about his own judgment.
The infamous 9:29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
This is a complete departure from the previous talk of oaths and contracts. This is an ideological decree. Those who are not muslims are to be subservient to muslims. This is a recurring theme in the Qu'ran, but it is packaged all together, here. If you resist this - obviously, the command is to fight until 'they are humbled' - meaning made lower - subjugated - oppressed.
9:33 It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.
After the Qur'an attempts to justify the command to fight and subjugate with what amounts to "they don't believe in Islam" - it further reinforces the overall point that Islam is to be dominant and the woes of non-believers are not to be factored into the concept of justice.
The Hadith reinforce this:
You must be registered for see links
" Narrated `Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords." "
...
" Narrated Abu Musa:
A man came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
" Narrated Al-Bara:
A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor) came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first? "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Embrace Islam first and then fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, A Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance). "
" Narrated Khalid bin Madan:
That 'Umair bin Al-Aswad Al-Anasi told him that he went to 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was staying in his house at the sea-shore of Hims with (his wife) Um Haram. 'Umair said. Um Haram informed us that she heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "Paradise is granted to the first batch of my followers who will undertake a naval expedition." Um Haram added, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Will I be amongst them?' He replied, 'You are amongst them.' The Prophet (ﷺ) then said, 'The first army amongst' my followers who will invade Caesar's City will be forgiven their sins.' I asked, 'Will I be one of them, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?' He replied in the negative." "
I will grant you that not every muslim believes this is the way good people should behave.
The problem is that this is the way Islam says good people should behave.
Once again - I invite you away from Islam.
This gives us two scenarios.
Either the leaders believe in the Islam that is blatantly written for all to see it for what it is - a theocratic conquest of the world, and would therefor endeavor to support these individuals.
Or they are genuinely afraid of these groups - which means that these groups effectively draw from the whole of a community that is hopelessly enslaved to them.
What this means for those of us on the outside is that there is no practical means to distinguish between good muslims and good human beings - even if the good human beings who are confused enough to associate with Islam make the effort to denounce these actions - the other reality is that it doesn't really amount to a practical difference as self-proclaimed muslims will hand their children a book and turn them over to teachers who will guide them toward a militant lifestyle.
That is where you would be wrong.
Islam does support terrorism. Unlike Buddhism. That is because Islam is not a religion within the western context of a religion. Islam is a lifestyle, culture, and nation. It is a set of laws that are commanded to reign supreme over any other concept of law, government, or stature.
Islam is fundamentally evil.
You must be registered for see links
" He earned a bachelor’s degree, a master’s degree and a PhD in Islamic Studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad in Adhamiya, a Baghdad suburb. "
What are your credentials?
You must be registered for see links
The Atlantic... THE ATLANTIC!!!!
" Many mainstream Muslim organizations have gone so far as to say the Islamic State is, in fact, un-Islamic. It is, of course, reassuring to know that the vast majority of Muslims have zero interest in replacing Hollywood movies with public executions as evening entertainment. But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”
...
According to Haykel, the ranks of the Islamic State are deeply infused with religious vigor. Koranic quotations are ubiquitous. “Even the foot soldiers spout this stuff constantly,” Haykel said. “They mug for their cameras and repeat their basic doctrines in formulaic fashion, and they do it all the time.” He regards the claim that the Islamic State has distorted the texts of Islam as preposterous, sustainable only through willful ignorance. “People want to absolve Islam,” he said. “It’s this ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ mantra. As if there is such a thing as ‘Islam’! It’s what Muslims do, and how they interpret their texts.” Those texts are shared by all Sunni Muslims, not just the Islamic State. “And these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else.”
All Muslims acknowledge that Muhammad’s earliest conquests were not tidy affairs, and that the laws of war passed down in the Koran and in the narrations of the Prophet’s rule were calibrated to fit a turbulent and violent time. In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.” "
So, you are wrong.
The Islamic State is very much Islamic. Just because you claim to be a muslim does not mean you are. However, that ignorant declaration of being a muslim will make you a lot of enemies. Non-muslims can't discern you from the ones supporting a global conquest, and the ones on the global conquest consider you no better than a non-believer.
Failure to choose one side or the other will result in you being smashed between the two, and the time for you to figure it out is wearing thin, young one.
Sirius Black
Active member
Awards
Know something called a little sarcasm. I know about Islam as good as anyone can. You should know that there are 54 subclasses of muslims. You don't know which onw I belong to. Well anyway you can interpret it anyway you want. I only read one thing and stopped. Paradise is in the shade of swords"
Ofcourse it is. Every religion has some incentives that are given if you do something for religion. If they are fighting for the religion's cause, then of course they will go to paradise. And quite frankly that is what thses so called muslims (terrorists) use to justify their acts. But it doesn't justify it. As I said in my post there are only a few cases where you are allowed to fight. And to make other people follow your laws and follow Islam is not one of them. You have given all of those proofs and some translations of quran as well.But Quran is not a continuous Book. It was descent in different portions. You cannot pick up a single verse from any place and say that here this is where Allah tells you to kill people for your own cause. The other part of that verse could be in a different Surah all together. And as for narrations They are narrations of people. Just open the quran and Provide me one direct translation of Quran where you can prove that Allah is saying go and attack people without any reason and force them to believe in Allah. If you are able to do that, then I promise I will stop practicing Islam forever. And your conclusion that Islam is not Religion, shows just how much your intellectual level is. No matter which context you put it in Islam will not only remain a religion, infact it will still be world's one of the largest religions. Calling Islam evil, I wonder if Islam is evil and other religions are good and great then why the most conversions of a eeligion in the world are to Islam. Why do people leave their religion for Islam?
And btw your sentense that Just because I say I am a Muslim doesn't mean I am answers all of your long wallie. Just because all those ****ing terrorists say that they are muslims doesn't mean they are muslims. I don't care what people will think about me after they know that I am a muslim.I have never asked anyone about there religion. I have never judged anyone according to their religion. No one will judge me because I am a Muslim.
What's so wrong with telling the muslims that they are on the right path and that they will be victorious against those who are on wrong path. Doesn't every religion tell it's believers the same thing. Doesn't every religion tell it's believers that you are on right path and those who are on wrong path shall go to hell.
And about 9:14 , what's so wrong with it. it basically means that if you fight those who are on wrong path, you'll be victorious. means that they will be defeated by your hands because you are on right path.
You should know that when a translation of a language is made, it is not accurate and the meaning may get changed a little in other language. So that's what you are basically using to supplement all your talk.
Last edited:
Endles Waltz
Active member
Awards
Obviously, you are part of one geared toward concealing the identity of those among those 54 subclasses who would engage in conquest over those around them.
That certainly isn't the way Muhammad and his followers interpreted the Qur'an as it was revealed.
Centuries of Islamic scholars have interpreted those very verses that way.
It says, quite plainly, within the Qu'ran to fight those who do not believe in Allah unless they pay taxes to the state of Islam and humble themselves to Islam.
The verses that follow are condemnations of the Jews and the Christians from a theological aspect - calling for their destruction before once again re-asserting that Islam is to manifest over all other religions.
The reason you say that you can't is because your razor-thin justification for your non-militant behavior relies upon being able to claim just that.
The problem is that the Qu'ran, while revealed in portions, is monolithic in its theological context. The Qu'ran was not written. It was not created. It is claimed to be God's wisdom as it has always been and as it has always existed.
The fact that it was revealed in portions has no bearing on the weight of what was revealed.
Of course... the fact is that Muhammad was making most of it up. Which is why the concept of abrogation came into being.... Which... Surat 9 being the last completely revealed surat makes it the 'final word' so to speak in terms of any conflicts with other revelations.
Except it isn't. It's right there.
The hell kind of argument is this?
You must be registered for see links
" Dr. Ghali
So, when the prohibiting months are drawn away, (Literally: stripped away) then kill the associators wherever you find them, and take them, and detain them, and sit (in wait) for them at every place of observation (i.e., ambush). But, in case they repent, and keep up the prayer, and bring the Zakat, (i.e., pay the obligatory poor-dues) then let them go their way; (Literally: pass on their way) surely Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Ever-Merciful..
Muhsin Khan
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthall
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sahih International
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Shakir
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "
So, when the prohibiting months are drawn away, (Literally: stripped away) then kill the associators wherever you find them, and take them, and detain them, and sit (in wait) for them at every place of observation (i.e., ambush). But, in case they repent, and keep up the prayer, and bring the Zakat, (i.e., pay the obligatory poor-dues) then let them go their way; (Literally: pass on their way) surely Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Ever-Merciful..
Muhsin Khan
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthall
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sahih International
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Shakir
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. "
You must be registered for see links
" Dr. Ghali
And in case they breach their oaths after their covenant, and discredit your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief; surely they have no (binding) oaths, that possibly they would refrain..
Muhsin Khan
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief (chiefs of Quraish - pagans of Makkah) - for surely their oaths are nothing to them - so that they may stop (evil actions).
Pickthall
And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.
Sahih International
And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
Shakir
And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.
Yusuf Ali
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained. "
And in case they breach their oaths after their covenant, and discredit your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief; surely they have no (binding) oaths, that possibly they would refrain..
Muhsin Khan
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief (chiefs of Quraish - pagans of Makkah) - for surely their oaths are nothing to them - so that they may stop (evil actions).
Pickthall
And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.
Sahih International
And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
Shakir
And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.
Yusuf Ali
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained. "
The violations of oath that are mentioned, here, are in regards to not receiving criticism from those around them.
You must be registered for see links
" Dr. Ghali
O you Prophet, strive against the steadfast disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh with them. And their abode is Hell, and miserable is the Destiny!.
Muhsin Khan
O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.
Pickthall
O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
Sahih International
O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
Shakir
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
Yusuf Ali
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. "
O you Prophet, strive against the steadfast disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh with them. And their abode is Hell, and miserable is the Destiny!.
Muhsin Khan
O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.
Pickthall
O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
Sahih International
O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
Shakir
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
Yusuf Ali
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. "
This pairs with this verse:
You must be registered for see links
" Dr. Ghali
They swear by Allah that in no way did they say (anything wrong), and they did indeed already say the word of disbelief, and disbelieved after their (acceptance of Islam; and they designed what they did not attain and in no way did they seek vengeance except that Allah enriched them, and His Messenger, of His Grace; so, in case they repent, it will be more charitable (i.e., better) for them; and in case they turn back Allah will torment them with a painful torment in the present (life) (Literally: the lowly (life), the life of this world) and the Hereafter; and in no way do they have in the earth a constant patron or a ready vindicator..
Muhsin Khan
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (bad), but really they said the word of disbelief, and they disbelieved after accepting Islam, and they resolved that (plot to murder Prophet Muhammad SAW) which they were unable to carry out, and they could not find any cause to do so except that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His Bounty. If then they repent, it will be better for them, but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful torment in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. And there is none for them on earth as a Wali (supporter, protector) or a helper.
Pickthall
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (wrong), yet they did say the word of disbelief, and did disbelieve after their Surrender (to Allah). And they purposed that which they could not attain, and they sought revenge only that Allah by His messenger should enrich them of His bounty. If they repent it will be better for them; and if they turn away, Allah will afflict them with a painful doom in the world and the Hereafter, and they have no protecting friend nor helper in the earth.
Sahih International
They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.
Shakir
They swear by Allah that they did not speak, and certainly they did speak, the word of unbelief, and disbelieved after their Islam, and they had determined upon what they have not been able to effect, and they did not find fault except because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace; therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper.
Yusuf Ali
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them. "
They swear by Allah that in no way did they say (anything wrong), and they did indeed already say the word of disbelief, and disbelieved after their (acceptance of Islam; and they designed what they did not attain and in no way did they seek vengeance except that Allah enriched them, and His Messenger, of His Grace; so, in case they repent, it will be more charitable (i.e., better) for them; and in case they turn back Allah will torment them with a painful torment in the present (life) (Literally: the lowly (life), the life of this world) and the Hereafter; and in no way do they have in the earth a constant patron or a ready vindicator..
Muhsin Khan
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (bad), but really they said the word of disbelief, and they disbelieved after accepting Islam, and they resolved that (plot to murder Prophet Muhammad SAW) which they were unable to carry out, and they could not find any cause to do so except that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His Bounty. If then they repent, it will be better for them, but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful torment in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. And there is none for them on earth as a Wali (supporter, protector) or a helper.
Pickthall
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (wrong), yet they did say the word of disbelief, and did disbelieve after their Surrender (to Allah). And they purposed that which they could not attain, and they sought revenge only that Allah by His messenger should enrich them of His bounty. If they repent it will be better for them; and if they turn away, Allah will afflict them with a painful doom in the world and the Hereafter, and they have no protecting friend nor helper in the earth.
Sahih International
They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.
Shakir
They swear by Allah that they did not speak, and certainly they did speak, the word of unbelief, and disbelieved after their Islam, and they had determined upon what they have not been able to effect, and they did not find fault except because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace; therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper.
Yusuf Ali
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them. "
And, in case you have any remaining doubt as to the theme being established, all through the last set of orders allah's prophet left:
You must be registered for see links
" Dr. Ghali
O you who have believed, fight the ones of the steadfast disbelievers who border on you and let them find in you (a) harshness; and know that Allah is with the pious.
Muhsin Khan
O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who are the Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).
Pickthall
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Sahih International
O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.
Shakir
O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him. "
So, you know, there is that.
Go ahead and search the other verses around that to see if there's something that makes that appear 'in context.'
Islam is not a religion within the western concept of a religion. Islam is a nation - a state - a constitution - a system of law and sovereign authority. It is a theocratic institution.
Westerners do not hold their religion to be a sovereign nation, yet that is what Islam commands and that is how Islam is generally perceived by those who practice it.
When the Balkans were razed to the ground through successive rounds of Islamic conquest, many business owners converted to Islam simply because the restrictions upon non-believers within the domain of the Ottoman Empire made it far too difficult to conduct business. Islam contains two very simple laws. A Muslim man is to convert his wife(s) to Islam and raise his children as muslim. A woman born to a muslim family is not to be married to a non-muslim. For her to do so is tantamount to apostasy, or, at the very least, shirk.
The same thing is occurring in districts of France, Germany, and England. The young men who are 'refugees' are marrying local women of no particular religious conviction or affiliation and they 'convert' out of appeasement... or out of a desire to be affiliated with something - like that french girl who blew herself up during the police raid in Paris last night.
In the end, the argument that people are fundamentally good and that they will therefor affiliate with what is 'good' is simply a baseless claim. Germans flocked to support the Nazis. The Chinese still largely revere Mao.
The purpose of evil is to deceive people. It is not a quality that can be discerned through popular quantity.
Two Scotsmen are in a room. One kills the other.
Who is the true Scotsman?
The survivor is the true Scotsman. You and your community will be consumed by ISIS. It is, therefor, not worth considering your existence.
You must be registered for see links
" In a recent survey conducted by AlJazeera.net, the website for the Al Jazeera Arabic television channel, respondents overwhelmingly support the Islamic State terrorist group, with 81% voting “YES” on whether they approved of ISIS’s conquests in the region.
The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS. "
I just did.
Read the prophecies of Isaiah.
Read the teachings of Jesus.
Read the Dao De Jing.
You would be incorrect in your assertion that most religions praise their believers and condemn non-believers.
The specific phrase is: "Allah will punish them by your hands."
There are specific phrases used within the Qu'ran - one of which: "For them is a great punishment on this world and the next" - or to that effect. Anything now paired with that phrase is, effectively, fair game for people to impose as a believer - as the Qu'ran has revealed that God punishes through the hands of his believers.
The fact that 81% of Al Jazeera's arabic speakers support ISIS would seem to imply that the translation actually softens the meaning considerably.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sirius Black
Active member
Awards
I have been looking for this video since yesterday. Thanks to skorm who poste dit in this forum at some other thread. And this is all I need to say to you. In the end it is your choice. You can believe whatever you want, and that won't affect me in anyway........
[video=youtube;PzusSqcotDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw[/video]
1. Note that in video she says, that in Pakistan women are being stoned to death. There is the generalization again. If in a country of 200Million, a case that must have happened only 5 or 6 times is being used to generalize whole of Muslim community of Pakistan. I live in Pakistan, my mother and aunts and 99% of women I know are as equal to men as they can be. infact most of the times women of the house gets the final say in all of our family.
Pakistan is very backward country, that I'll agree. There are still lots of tribes in certain regions and the wadera system in certain regions that does barbaric and unspoken acts. And that is to be stopped. but these people are not in anyway representatives of Millions.
Stoning is a practice of old times and is only done in Saudi Arabia, to those who have done something sexual. And that is a law of Islam, but is only carried in Saudi Araba and should be changed. But then again Saudi Arabia is the most extremist muslim country in the world. *Extremist in this sentence does not mean that they are doing something wrong or out of the book. It just means that they are just not willing to evolve with the 21st century.
And if we are to continue on this topic, then please first tell me how can America justify the long war on Muslim countries like Iran, where countless of innocent people were killed. Killing the terrorists is one thing and that is justified, but what about those millions of innocent people that died in these wars. Are they going to be just discarded as a collateral damage. How can Israel justify it's oppression of Palestine. And then Palestinians are not even allowed to reply to all those barbaric actions that are being done against them. If they fire a bomb at Israel, they are immediately called terrorists.
If millions of people die in Muslim countries die, no one will bat an eye. but if 127 people die in Paris everyone will come out in support of those 127 and start changing their profile pics and whatnot. (Not saying that killing of that 127 is a good thing. it is a disgrace as a human. And I feel it is a disgrace to me as those who did this call themselves Muslim), but still asking are those 127 people in Paris in anyway superior to those millions that die in Muslim countries.
Also note in this video and you can see it in any news or whatever resources you use to research, that Muslims have suffered most at the hands of these so called Muslims of Al-Qaeda, ISIS, hammas and other terrorist factions. This in it self is a proof enough that these few hundreds so called Muslims are killing, the Muslims most...........
And mind you I will end this conversation with this one.
ISIS is not extremist. They are terrorists and they are interpreting Islam in a wrong way.
Last edited:
Dark Sonic
Active member
Awards
Well done. Furthermore, I have some articles about Surat-Tawbah (9) that is interesting.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Ah, I knew that name would crop up. Poetic.
No, the video really doesn't answer any of the points made in the slightest, nor do the commentators succeed in making the points you believe they do.
You must be registered for see links
" The anecdote is horrifying. But even more horrifying is the regularity with which honor killings and stonings occur in Pakistan. Despite creeping modernity, secular condemnation and the fact there’s no reference to stoning in the Koran, honor killings claim the lives of more than 1,000 Pakistani women every year, according to a Pakistani rights group.
They have widespread appeal. Eighty-three percent of Pakistanis support stonings for adultery according to a Pew survey, and only 8 percent oppose it. Even those who chose modernity over Islamic fundamentalism overwhelmingly favor stonings, according to Pew research.
It’s the year 2014. Why is this still happening?
Some Islamic fundamentalists think that only through the murder of an offending family member can honor be restored to the rest of the family. Honor killings predominantly affect women — 943 women were killed under such circumstances in 2011 and another 869 in 2013, though not all of them were stoned. Some were just gunned down in cold blood. "
She is correct in her statement that it is happening.
To put that into perspective, in a country of 380 million, there are about 350 homicides via rifle each year... you know... the 'assault rifles' they keep trying to ban with a religious fervor all of its own (over 6,000 are killed with handguns annually - but I digress).
When a country of 200 million has nearly a thousand women killed in 'honor killings' each year... is it really inaccurate to fault the legal system within Islam?
As for claims to equality... I have to take that with a skeptical grain of salt. I've been to quite a few places around the world and I have seen women considered 'equal' under situations I would consider, at best, misogynistic - and quite oppressive by western standards.
Apparently, they are. Polling done in your country indicates that 83% support honor killings while 9% oppose it. That's a pretty stiff margin to just disregard.
You must be registered for see links
It happens considerably often in many muslim countries. Though it's impossible to know how many stonings go unreported in various rural or otherwise isolated areas.
Of course... how many people were just taken out back and shot, instead?
The problem with attempting to 'evolve Islam' is that Islam is, by its very foundation, fixed. It's immovable. God allegedly revealed the Qu'ran to Muhammad.
Where have you been?
America just agreed to turn a blind eye to Iran's nuclear weapons program.
Or - I should say - Obama.
Realistically, America hasn't been at war with Iran. Iran may have thought it was at war with America - but the only real action on the part of America has been trade sanctions on a nation that has been caught, multiple times, attempting to build nuclear weapons while chanting that they are going to use said weapons on the United States in their version of parliament.
Is that what every Iranian citizen wants? Probably not... but they sing and dance when bad things happen to the rest of the world... so - I'm not exactly optimistic in regards to the prospects of any kind of friendship, there, outside of individuals.
What would you suggest be done about them?
I did not kill them, nor can I bring them back.
I do not care much for revenge, but I am capable of recognizing patterns in behavior. Islam, in all its forms, represents a threat to non-muslims. It's not my concern so much what people have done - but what it is they intend to do, or what consequences will befall their actions.
This is another thread in and of itself.
For starters, they are not Palestinians. Those guys have been gone since the times of Rome. The self-proclaimed nation of palestine is comprised of ethnic Arabs. After the Jews were resettled to Israel, a number of the Arabs refused to recognize the legitimacy of a non-muslim State.
See, this is why that whole "Qu'ran" thing is important to understand. Muslims are to be superior in society per the Qu'ran - and not just Muslims - but the law of the Qu'ran. Human-drafted systems of government are, at best, shirk and at worst amount to an apostasy all of its own. Things like voting are not prescribed within the Qu'ran - even if you vote for a muslim leader, the very idea that you have elevated a human system of governance above that which is prescribed in the Qu'ran is in defiance of the way as it is defined by the revealed wisdom of God.
This is what I mean by "it can't evolve." When you have a book that people believe is -the- wisdom of God... nothing gets any higher. You can't get any more authoritative on the subject than God.
So, anyway - the Arabs refused to recognize the decree of the fledgling U.N. that established Israel, and refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign state. They waged jihad - as they are commanded to do - against the non-muslim state. Multiple times, the Jews were attacked by various surrounding muslim nations.
Of course, none of these muslim nations will take any of the palestinians.
As for whether or not the Palestinians are actually oppressed is a matter of perspective. From the western perspective - no - they are not really oppressed. Many of them live freely within Israel at large and the state of Israel pays a great many expenses for the various arabs and muslims within its borders.
From an Islamic perspective - yes, they are oppressed in about the most insulting way possible. They live under an un-Islamic system of law operated by none other than the Jews. They are not allowed to practice their religion as they believe because their religion forbids them to be anything other than the heads of State within a state operated according to the laws of Islam.
If the palestinians weren't muslim - there wouldn't be a problem. If they were Christian, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem (although the culture there has been that religion = nation for so long that it would be naive to believe a simple change of religion would completely dissolve any territorial disputes). If they were Hindu, it wouldn't be as big of a problem. Buddhist - even if they were to go way out there and become Stalinist, it wouldn't be nearly the problem (although, obviously, Stalinism would pose its own conflicts).
And?
30,000 people die annually from motor vehicles every year in the U.S. alone.
Social media has jumped to the support of numerous cases of tragedy in the middle east. Palestine sees some of the strongest support for its cause it's ever seen among westerners (which is foolish, but I do find comfort in the fact that said fools are more likely to be collateral damage in terrorist strikes than I am - so we'll just let natural selection take its course, there).
See - this is where Islam rots your brain. It convinces you to always look at the rest of the world as if you are the victim of some kind of oppression that you need to get even with. It's an effective tactic - Muhammad was onto it long before Hitler picked up on the same tactic - but it's not ever going to help you become a better, more capable person.
Funny thing...
When you have communities built around "do not take as friends those who do not believe" - a concept that is very common in the Qu'ran throughout multiple surats - ... they tend to pretty much form self-isolated communities that look upon the rest of the world with disdain.
The message has been fairly clear as far back as the late stages of the ottoman empire with the Barbary states: Muslims want little to do with the rest of the world unless it involves pointing a sword at it or trading slaves.
Little has really changed since that time. Many regions of the middle east, even where there is modern technological development, just don't interact much with the western world.
Like it or not - the west enjoys a considerable amount of cohesion after the events of World War II and the cold war with the Soviet Union. I was born at the trailing edge of an era where much of the west stood with the belief that all were equally under threat from the Soviet Union. That mentality has persisted and we see other Westernized nations as being our door step.
That history isn't there for the countries in the middle east, and even if it were - there's much less media presence in the middle east, as well as a different culture that doesn't place nearly as high of a value on reporting tragedy.
You see, this is why you should read my posts rather than simply shooting from the hip.
The fact that they are killing muslims is actually quite important in the issue of whether or not their claim to be muslim is valid.
While you sit here and try to say Israel is an oppressor and that the rest of the world is a big meanyhead for not crying tears of blood over every muslim life lost... those within your community who hold similar views to ISIS (and we've already established that 81% of arabic speakers responding to Al Jazeera's poll agree enough with ISIS to say that they support them) can and will kill you.
I suspect ISIS will tone down a bit of its antics over the next couple years. As fundamental as they are, they will find that outside of the predominantly Arab regions, they will require a bit more strategy to swing communities in their favor. They need people like you rallying to the defense of Islam as a legitimate religion and its people as mostly peace-loving.
Whether or not that is true is really just an issue of semantics, as the radical base builds quietly beneath the mirage generated by those who claim to be muslims. Then they begin waging jihad against non-believers, and those who claim to be muslim will all rally to the defense of the peaceful facade of Islam.
Then those who claim to be muslim will be killed by the fundamentalists after power is secured. Or, rather, they will be subjugated as if they are non-believers. Perhaps not all will be killed - but they will be forced to serve the likes of the Islamic State in time.
Which is why whether or not they are the majority is irrelevant. The "sub faction" you represent within Islam is ultimately never going to put a stop to the militants who spread freely throughout all of the factions of Islam.
The Qu'ran begs to differ with you.
So does Muhammad.
Sirius Black
Active member
Awards
You know what, i have seen a lot of threads from your previous postings. And now I know that you just hate Islam. In most of those threads where you started this propaganda against Islam, you fled in the end when you were given some real proofs. In one of those threads you even made up a quote from Islam. If you want to think of a less then a million people to be the representatives of a whole billion, then go with it. To each his own. If what you are saying is right and Islam is wrong, then I'll rot in hell (Every religion has a concept of after life and hell), and if Islam is right then it might be you.
And it would be better to not say anything else. because if you say that you have not, altered the verse of Quran in one of your previous discussions on this forum, I can very much prove it. And I noticed something very interesting as well, when I search on google what you have written in all of your above replies, it seems you are using certain forums and websites to copy paste all of that stuff. So spare me of your foolishness. I am on this base for RolePlaying, not to engage in religion wars.
The one almighty who owns this religion (Allah) is far superior and is strong enough to protect it. He doesn't need anyone to protect it for him.
Endles Waltz
Active member
Awards
The fact that you have the nerve to say that proves that you are nothing more than a clueless bigot with an extreme prejudice against the religion. People like you are the last that should go spreading misinformation about the religion and it's holy book, it seems like you have a lot more in common with ISIS than you think.
Not only is ISIS not Muslim, they are Islam's biggest enemy, and both the Quran and Prophet Muhammad warned against people like them.
The fact that you don't even know what Shirk means shows just how extremely shallow your knowledge of Islam is.
(FYI, Shirk is the main reason Islam even came about)
Have you ever heard of Shura? Did you ever look up how the successor to the prophet was chosen?
Awkward Linguist
Active member
Isis is not that stupid.
An attack on America would mean certain death to all, especially with America still not over 9/11
God forbid America makes an Alliance with Russia in regards to defeating Isis SMH
Isis does not wanna **** with the Cold War Gang!
An attack on America would mean certain death to all, especially with America still not over 9/11
God forbid America makes an Alliance with Russia in regards to defeating Isis SMH
Isis does not wanna **** with the Cold War Gang!
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't mean to attack you here but I sort of need to get this in.
Any form of power and status may it be a organized religion or a nation will be represented by the ones that influence outsiders the most. Japan's general populace is peaceful yet they killed 12 million, Germany's general populace is peaceful yet they killed 40 million, Russia's general populace is peaceful yet around 60 million people died, the general muslim populace is peacefull yet 15 to 25% which is around 300 million muslims support radical ideologies. Muslims are, in fact, a plague in Europe, for one. That's coming from someone with muslim friends who are normal people but support ideologies like women shouldn't be able to drive. The general pakistani populace is peacefull yet a large number that migrate to Europe are savages. Just have a look at Rotherham where pakistani taxi drivers protested against the mandated law of having CCTV-cameras installed in their cabs because many 1000+ children were raped by pakistanis. They protest not against the savage doings against local children but against the cameras they don't want in their cars..Actually, that place undergoes ethnic cleancing and wants all whites out. It'll turn into pakistan all over. Most criminals in my country are, sadly, muslim youth. Most *** offenders throughout Europe are, sadly, yeah.
You see, many muslim's pride and conviction transcends that of other religion so they are not willing to adjust to the western standard. Rather, they'll islamify and try dominate areas in Europe to create the backward desert santa environment they're used too. And any dissent towards islamification from locals is deemed racist.
So, we can all defend the 1.5 billion muslims but a woppin 300 million of them share these outdated ideologies and that is what should be focused on. They are a cancer to society.
p.s.: nice example: [video=youtube;rP6U6Hhy_2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M[/video]
Last edited:
Son of God
Active member
elitenoob94
Active member
They can try, but I don't think ISIS knows how screwed they would be if we invaded them entirely.
rn we aren't the only ones they're screwing with and I wouldn't mind shooting my M240B lay bodies flat.
rn we aren't the only ones they're screwing with and I wouldn't mind shooting my M240B lay bodies flat.