Is Tobirama Top 10?

[Deathwink]

yeah I do believe that he's top 10

 

[Nattana]

Tobirama is not even top15.

 

[RikudouMadara]

Hmm...for me definitely

Rikudou
Obito Sennin Mode
Madara
Hashirama
Izuna/Tobirama
Tobirama/Izuna
Itachi
Nagato
Naruto
Sasuke


Imo .

 

[Draphsin]

Your bias doesn't change the fact that Kakashi DID keep up.

He kept up but he didnt track the movement of the jutsu, why is that so hard for you to fathom?

Okay, if it's so simple then explain it to me. How can Itachi summon a flock of crows, making poofing smoke and flying birds, then form them into a clone of himself, then have it hide in an empty room, all in front of a Sharingan user no less, without plot hax?

He did it in front of a sharingan user because as I said he can cast jutsu faster than the sharingan can keep track of, it's not plot hax & stop f*cking saying that, it doesnt matter how he did it but the fact remains that he did. Denying his feats because you cant explain how he did them is too bad for you. He did it, end of story .

The Sharingan can track movement before it happens... so how did Itachi use a Crow Clone right in front of Sasuke and him not notice anything? Hmm?

Because as I previously said but you fail to comprehend, Itachi can cast jutsu faster than the sharingan can even notice, I gave you two examples of this.

Sharingan also isn't that good. The Uchihas got their asses kicked by the Senju, Izuna got killed by Tobirama, Madara got killed by Hashirama, Sasuke and Kakashi keep getting hit, Obito and Kakashi fought to a draw, and Itachi is no different.

What the f*ck is this? lol, the senju are the strongest clan, why the hell are you even using them as an example, its more like the senju were the only clan who could kick the uchiha's asses, other clans got obliterated by the uchiha, & kakashi has the sharingan, using a proficient sharingan user in your example makes it invalid, & since the senju were the only clan who could give the uchiha a beating then it pretty much annihilates your entire point saying that the sharingan isnt that good, Lol.

Tenten is the only one stated to have superior shurikenjutsu, stating that she never misses. Itachi hasn't been given the same praise. Itachi is not the only character that can throw a kunai straight, don't delude yourself. Unless... you can prove that other ninjas can't throw straight. Go ahead, show me that Itachi can throw straighter than anyone else. What an f'n joke.

The only joke here is you, butden of proof is on you. Yes tenten never misses, but she is a shurikenjutsu expert, she is logically supposed to have that hype. Look at lee & gai who are purely taijutsu based, they are the best taijutsu useres in the series. Same thing with tenten, she is pure shurikenjutsu so she should logically be good.

Itachi on the other hand is someone who isnt known to be purely shurikenjutsu based, yet he's the only one with shurikenjutsu feats. As I said, give me proof that other ninja can do what he did, stop trying to turn the burden of proof on me when you yourself cant find any, that makes for a sh*tty argument that goes nowhere, give me scans next post or just give up .

It was B.S. how Nagato's "blindspots" were hit, because stabbing someone in the eyes isn't attacking their blindspots. And yes, plot hax did happen.

He hit the eyes from their blindspots :|

Wow, Itachi can judge where someone is without seeing. I once caught a punch from someone attacking me from behind, it's not magic.

Haha, I bet you couldnt catch that punch again, lmfao. Its called luck in your case, in itachi's? Its called skill U_U

1. Why does Minato have to touch Itachi at that point?

How else does minato hurt Itachi?

2. Minato can still attack from a range, he doesn't have to get close to Itachi, and Itachi will have to jump to leave the circle which leaves him vulnerable too.

Wrong, show me Itachi's ranged attacks, kunai? He can easily dodge them & wont have to leave the circle.

3. Why do you keep thinking that all Minato can do is punch Itachi? First of all, Minato could use a Shadow Clone and have it sacrifice itself to charge through Amaterasu with a Rasengan.

yeah he has kaege bunshins, but so does Itachi...& he can create them them faster than minato can as I have proven but you deny as plot hax Lol.

Also, you know that Minato could summon a toad and have it spew oil at Itachi, Amaterasu will ignite the oil and burn Itachi. Or the toad could spit gigantic water bullets at Itachi, Amaterasu isn't going to do anything to protect him. Minato could probably even use Food Cart Destroyer and crush Itachi if desperate enough. There's also the possibility of summoning the Ni Dai Sennin and having them use Frog Song on a stationary Itachi.

Toad gets obliterated by amaterasu, if he gets summoned then he falls before he can do anything & minato is out a summon. food cart destroyer to crush? Did you forget about totsuka & yata mirror? all itachi has to do is stick it up that giant frog's ass & its over.

Same with regular toads, yata can easily deflect any toad oil & totsuka is a great way to stop them.

& frog song isnt part of minato's arsenal, just because he can summon toads doesnt mean that he uses them in battle.

4. Why not? Being surrounded by fire, it must get hot in there. If he stays in there too long, he'll probably sweat to death.

lol sweat to death? really? I didnt see sasuke sweating to death when he did the exact same thing against kabuto.

5. It'll still hinder him, that's the point. Itachi has about 3 safe uses of MS before he gets too low on chakra.

And? You didnt finish that statement. It only takes 1 MS use to end minato. 1 tsukuyomi kills him & 1 ama ember kills him. Susanoo is another story as he can maintain it until death so its safe to assume that if he's about to die then susanoo is staying up.

Read the manga, Itachi did handseals.

You mean when he was molding chakra?

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U_U

How does Itachi can his genjutsu before Minato teleports?

Unless minato has info in ephemeral then he wouldnt even realize that itachi is casting a genjutsu with his finger, furthermore all minato needs to do is look at Itachi's eyes. You underestimate how easy it is for itachi to capture someone in genjutsu. Teleporting certainly helps against ninjutsu because you can react to it, you dont react to genjutsu until you're already caught.

And technically, genjutsu doesn't paralyze the opponent, it tricks the opponent's senses into thinking something's real when it isn't.

You can use genjutsu to paralyze & even knock unconscious, idk why you think its such a linear & simple technique.

Genjutsu also isn't a rare ability, so how do ninjas fight in wars and become legendary without ever facing a genjutsu user? Why aren't all genjutsu users legendary if genjutsu is so hax? Why did the Senju dominate the Uchiha?

Genjutsu depends on the user's chakra, weak genjutsus can be dispelled. & stop using the senju as an example...They are the only clan who can defeat the uchiha clan, name me another clan that can do what the senju did. The senju most likely have powerful counters to genjutsu such as bringer of darkness. They were the best for a reason, why do you think that genjutsu would work on them? I dont see the uchiha having problems trapping anybody else in a genjutsu, only the best clan for some reason can stop them, I wonder why? /sarcasm

You made the claim that Susanoo would hit Minato, you implied that I was wrong about Susanoo having a moderate range, and you wanted to argue about how long Itachi can keep Susanoo up when in the manga it wasn't very long.
Wrong, you made claims such as susanoo is slow & has a short range, I told you to prove those statements which it seems like you still cant do. I never argued how long he can keep it up, manga showed us that he can maintain it until the moment he dies, therefore he can. Its you who is arguing with the manga, show me Itachi deactivating susanoo because he couldnt keep it up anymore.

I wasn't talking about Onoki blasting all of the Susanoos, I'm talking about before that when the Gokage are each fighting 5 Susanoos each and are holding their own.

Cool, those were very basic versions of susanoo with no legendary weapons, they had legs, whooptie do. You're telling me that each of the 5 kage by themselves can stand up to a completed susanoo with absolutely no outside help? That's funny.

It's implied that Minato is faster without FTG, his Body Flicker has been hyped too by Tobirama and in Kakashi Gaiden. Although for physical speed, I will admit it could go either way.

So, this doesnt change the fact that it can still be tracked by the sharingan, or are you going to pul out some more bs & say that minato can move faster than the sharingan can track with mere shunshin . If you do go on to make a claim like that then prove it.

I'm not saying that Susanoo will kill Itachi in one battle, but he saved Susanoo as a last resort and for good reason; it's a huge risk, it takes a heavy toll on the user's body and eats away at the user's life. Not to mention that using Susanoo slows the user down as shown with Madara, another drawback if Itachi wants to stay quick on his feat.

Im aware of the risks behind susanoo, what does that change exactly? Itachi can keep it maintained until he dies & that's all that matters, if he is in a tough spot then he can easily pull out susanoo to save him from an attack, he doesnt even need to complete it as he has an arm with yata, instant defense.

Btw what the hell are you going on about? Give me proof that susanoo slows madara down.

That's also a huge difference between Sasuke and Itachi. Once Sasuke got MS he spammed it like crazy, his other jutsus (and skill, apparently) no longer seemed to exist. Itachi on the other hand relied more on his skills and lesser jutsus, relying on MS when needed. He resorted to Tsukiyomi when trying to get out of Konoha before their entire military showed up, he used Amaterasu to escape Jiraiya's jutsu, and he started to use MS against Sasuke near the end of the fight when genjutsu, crows, and fireballs weren't pushing Sasuke hard enough.

My point is that itachi can maintain susanoo for minato's fight, whether he spams it or not is irellevant. Fact remains that he's survived other battles with it & sasuke who spammed it survived consecutive battles with it.

Haha, you're comparing Minato to Sasuke? Weren't you the one saying early about not using A>B>C logic? Your bias and fallacies know no bounds,

Fail, I'm comparing a sharingan user to minato, if sasuke with his sharingan cant track itachi's movements then tell me how minato does with no such ability? Exactly .

Your reply shows how much denial you're in. But hey, at least it shows that you aren't in complete denial.

@Bold: Wish I could say the same for you