UltimateDeadpool
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Yes he is... and why is Itachi on the list? Orochimaru should be on there, or even a few others. Hanzo, Hiruzen, etc.
Is Tobirama Top 10?
- Thread starter Flawž
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While that may be true, Itachi can create clones faster than kakashi & sasuke's sharingan can even track, I highly doubt that minato will be able to notice the clones itachi makes while he's also throwing multiple kunai around the battlefield in order to deter FTG.
Seriously, unless minato can get close to itachi then he loses, & he cant get close to itachi due to shurikenjutsu, amaterasu, genjutsu, & susanoo.
UltimateDeadpool
Active member
Kakashi did keep track, and with Sasuke that was plot hax. I'm supposed to believe that Itachi summoned crows, then used Crow clone, then had the clone hide in an empty room, all without someone with superior eyes to Itachi seeing any of it? No.
Besides, clones appear next to the user, and not all jutsus are seen or even require handseals so that's a poor argument.
Itachi can't exactly spam clones either.
Everyone can use shurikenjutsu and hit bullseyes. Amaterasu takes time to use and is dodgeable. Genjutsu is avoidable/counterable. Susanoo can be a challenge to get past, but it's too slow to hit Minato, has a moderate range, and has a major time-limit.
Another post showing why Itachi is so hugely overrated.
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Transcendence
Active member
States that his eyes couldnt keep up with him, yet you deny it, lol...
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This entire quote made ma laugh XD Basically what you're saying is that "I have no excuse, so it must be plot hax." Lmfao & you think that my argument is poor? Think again.
You make no sense, Itachi can create clones while throwing kunai, if sasuke who wields the sharingan could'nt even notice then its laughable to assume that minato can, lol nice try
.Prove that everyone can do what Itachi & sasuke did. Itachi was known for his shurikenjutsu, he hit even the blindspots, & not just of the targets, but of nagato's rinnegan field of vision
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. Itachi's shurikenjutsu > any average shinobi's & until you show me another ninja who gets praised like him then you are wrong again.Itachi uses ama in a circle to surround himself, tell me how minato gets close? He doesnt, next.
Ephemeral is a finger genjutsu that works on pointing, unless minato has info then he is falling for that genjutsu & by the time he dispels it then its already too late.
Show me susanoo being slow, show me where it states susanoo's maximum range, & show me susanoo's time limit, because from what ive seen, itachi's susanoo didnt deactivate until he died, & he was already injured. Therefore eaying that it has a "time limit" is invalid, show it to me..
& yet half of your arguments have terrible support, Lol.
Jazzy Stardust
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Yeah I believe so, I don't think Kabuto is though. He couldn't solo for nothing, sure he can do edo but Tobimara came up with it to begin with. I believe from what we've seen and from the abilities shown in UNS3 that he could solo all of the current ninja in the hidden leaf besides Naruto and Sasuke.
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Faceless VoiD
Member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. but I really like your list...
Though I think Tobirama / Minato / & Itachi are equals.. They all have great perceptions and analytical ability. Its so hard to tell who will win should they ever face off in a battle. It could always go either way, anyone who denied this is simply hating.
I also believe they have chance of winning against Demi-God such as Nagato, DSMKabuto & pre-rinnegan Tobi:erm:
Though I think Tobirama / Minato / & Itachi are equals.. They all have great perceptions and analytical ability. Its so hard to tell who will win should they ever face off in a battle. It could always go either way, anyone who denied this is simply hating.
I also believe they have chance of winning against Demi-God such as Nagato, DSMKabuto & pre-rinnegan Tobi:erm:
Crossroads
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UltimateDeadpool
Active member
Yet Kakashi countered it anyway.States that his eyes couldnt keep up with him, yet you deny it, lol...You must be registered for see links
This entire quote made ma laugh XD Basically what you're saying is that "I have no excuse, so it must be plot hax." Lmfao & you think that my argument is poor? Think again.
You make no sense, Itachi can create clones while throwing kunai, if sasuke who wields the sharingan could'nt even notice then its laughable to assume that minato can, lol nice try
Prove that everyone can do what Itachi & sasuke did. Itachi was known for his shurikenjutsu, he hit even the blindspots, & not just of the targets, but of nagato's rinnegan field of visionYou must be registered for see links. Itachi's shurikenjutsu > any average shinobi's & until you show me another ninja who gets praised like him then you are wrong again.
Itachi uses ama in a circle to surround himself, tell me how minato gets close? He doesnt, next.
Ephemeral is a finger genjutsu that works on pointing, unless minato has info then he is falling for that genjutsu & by the time he dispels it then its already too late.
Show me susanoo being slow, show me where it states susanoo's maximum range, & show me susanoo's time limit, because from what ive seen, itachi's susanoo didnt deactivate until he died, & he was already injured. Therefore eaying that it has a "time limit" is invalid, show it to me..
& yet half of your arguments have terrible support, Lol.
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So what you're saying is that you can't explain it. I thought so.
Okay. Minato can make a Rasengan without handseals, Itachi can't stop it because he won't see it coming. Minato also teleports without handseals, Itachi won't see it coming just like Izuna and Obito couldn't.
All Kabuto said was that Itachi was successful in attacking Nagato's blindspots (lol) with kunai, it's not a talent stated to be explicit to Itachi. What are you going to tell me? That Itachi can throw a kunai straighter than anyone else? lmao. Notice that Itachi threw 6 kunais to hit 3 eyeballs, that means three of them missed lol.
Also, that was also B.S. Hit Nagato's blindspots? He threw the kunais directly into the summons' eyes, they literally SAW them coming! Just goes to show how much plothax Itachi gets in the manga that he won't get in a hypothetical battle.
Okay, let's point out the problems with this:
1. Itachi becomes a sitting duck.
2. If the flames are high enough to shield Itachi's body then Itachi can't see what Minato is doing.
3. Amaterasu won't stop anything from coming through the flames.
4. Does Itachi get cooked alive?
5. Itachi just wasted a huge chunk of chakra and worsened his vision for a crappy defense.
Emphemeral is a jutsu that requires handseals and the opponent to look at your finger. Also, you can't prove that genjutsu is an instant win against Minato. Kurenai would one-shot Minato in that case.
Alternatively, show me Susanoo being fast, show me Susanoo's arm being super long, show me how long Itachi's Susanoo lasts. You make these claims but don't provide any support.
25 Susanoos couldn't even beat the 5 Kages. Hell, Ei was faster than Susanoo and Minato is faster than Ei. Susanoo also eats away at the user's life the longer it's used, and Itachi doesn't even have a ton of chakra to spam Susanoo with. Besides, Itachi acted fine until after Susanoo subdued Orochimaru, then he started to spit blood everywhere, have a heart attack, and struggle to walk. So if Itachi uses it for too long, he's going to end up dying before he can beat Minato... unless you prove otherwise.
My arguments have feats and logic, your arguments just rely on hype and bias.
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Well considering he faced an Enton user, and did not die, that is a feat that he could dodge Amaterasu and Enton due to his sensing and FTG. I think he is #8-9.
Rikudobito
Hashirama
Madara
Naruto
Nagato
Kabuto
Sasuke
Minato/Tobirama
Minato/Tobirama
Itachi or Muu or 2nd Mizukage
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Rikudobito
Hashirama
Madara
Naruto
Nagato
Kabuto
Sasuke
Minato/Tobirama
Minato/Tobirama
Itachi or Muu or 2nd Mizukage
UltimateDeadpool
Active member
What of Jiraiya? He's stated to be a major competitor against both Itachi and Nagato.
Or Orochimaru, or Hanzo, or Hiruzen, etc.
Optimistic
Active member
Yes & it was a desperate counter by kakashi, this doesnt change the fact that itachi's jutsus are so fast that kakashi cant keep up with him.
Dont need to, the manga does, deny facts all you want but the picture is clearly painted in front of you.
Yes he can, the sharingan can track movements before they happen, along with itachi's reflexes a rasengan isnt getting anywhere near him. & minato needs to place kunai in order to teleport, itachi's shurikenjutsu can easily deter the kunai away from himself, thus removing any harm that minato can cause.
Hilarious, another "plot hax" excuse. That reasoning fails on so many levels. & btw you still lack any form of proof showing another ninja's shurikenjutsu feats. Itachi is the only shinobi who was shown to be able to do what he did, yet you claim it as plot hax, enough of your poor reasoning in trying to disprove a fact, Itachi's shurikenjutsu > any average shinobi's until you provide proof stating or showing otherwise.
Btw it wasnt bs how nagato's blindspots were hit, it happened so deal with it. Itachi missed with 3 kunai? so what? Look at how itachi can effortlessly deflect multiple shuriken with relative ease
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. None of minato's FTG kunai are getting near him Itachi can hit targets without even looking at them as well, there is proof of this but honestly I cant be bothered.
Ill show you your flaws
1. So what? How does minato touch him at this point? He cant get inside especially if he has to jump, Itachi will easily notice him before he can land & will stop him with either genjutsu or a simple ama shot.
2. They dont need to be high enough to block minato's field of view, do you even know what surrounding the floor in ama does? It forces minato to approach itachi from mid air, since this is the case then Itachi has the immediate advantage with sharingan, ama & tsukuyomi. Its a trap, a trap that minato can do nothing about Lol.
3. So you're basically saying that minato can tank ama flames, jeez I think I'm done here
.4. No :|
5. His vision is fine if he can keep up with sasuke & maintain susanoo until his death, sure he'll get pain but it most certainly wont be enough to stop him or any of his jutsus.
No it doesnt, read the manga. Ephemeral requires a point, that is all...
& of course genjutsu gives itachi the win, what does genjutsu do? it paralyzes the opponent, unless minato has a counter for genjutsu then he's falling for it. & of course kurenai could oneshot minato, but that's if she can even cast her genjutsu before he teleports. lol its common sense
Fail, I didnt make any claims, you made all the false accusations, show me proof then, I dont need proof contradicting you when you yourself can provide none of your own. Honestly, i think its funny how you're trying to turn this argument back on me when you get backed into a corner. Proof or gtfo! =D
Of course, jinton is OP, does minato have a jutsu that can obliterate susanoo in one swipe? Didnt think so. No onoki = madara wouldnt even had to have pulled out PS.
& here we go again, abc logic? really? terrible, just terrible... Not only did A eventually get captured by susanoo (albeit it was due to distraction but Itachi can easily do the same with clones) but minato is only faster than him with FTG, how is FTG gonna help him when the kunai are all scattered in multiple areas that would put minato at a disadvantage.
Here we go again with your sh*tty fallacies. Yes susano eats away at the users life but itachi had susanoo for his entire adult career. He has been putting up with the pain from susanoo long enough & its laughable that you think he cant last one simple battle with it activated.
Itachi used tsukuyomi which got broken, & that drastically hurt itachi's eyes, & he used amaterasu twice & for an unnecessary amount of time. Then & was still able to maintain susanoo until the moment that he died. Sasuke in MS had problems maintaining susanoo as he was going blind but he still could never maintain it as steadily as Itachi.
Sasuke even notes how painful it must have been for itachi.
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The fact that Itachi was able to perfect his susanoo & still keep a substantial amount of his eyesight for years after he awakened it proves that he can maintain it for extended periods of time. Just look at MS sasuke who went blind after spamming susanoo against the entire 5 kage, if he can do it against 5 ninja then Itachi can against one. Otherwise prove to me that minato can last longer than sasuke did & also prove that minato can break tsukuyomi which dramatically reduced Itachi's eyesight as well.
No proof? No argument Lol.
F*cking hilarious, its actually vice versa, you still have no manga scans to support your biased logic, Kakashi countering itachi is your only shred of evidence, nice feats & logic! XD
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UltimateDeadpool
Active member
Your bias doesn't change the fact that Kakashi DID keep up.Yes & it was a desperate counter by kakashi, this doesnt change the fact that itachi's jutsus are so fast that kakashi cant keep up with him.
Dont need to, the manga does, deny facts all you want but the picture is clearly painted in front of you.
Yes he can, the sharingan can track movements before they happen, along with itachi's reflexes a rasengan isnt getting anywhere near him. & minato needs to place kunai in order to teleport, itachi's shurikenjutsu can easily deter the kunai away from himself, thus removing any harm that minato can cause.
Hilarious, another "plot hax" excuse. That reasoning fails on so many levels. & btw you still lack any form of proof showing another ninja's shurikenjutsu feats. Itachi is the only shinobi who was shown to be able to do what he did, yet you claim it as plot hax, enough of your poor reasoning in trying to disprove a fact, Itachi's shurikenjutsu > any average shinobi's until you provide proof stating or showing otherwise.
Btw it wasnt bs how nagato's blindspots were hit, it happened so deal with it. Itachi missed with 3 kunai? so what? Look at how itachi can effortlessly deflect multiple shuriken with relative easeYou must be registered for see links. None of minato's FTG kunai are getting near him
Itachi can hit targets without even looking at them as well, there is proof of this but honestly I cant be bothered.
Ill show you your flaws
1. So what? How does minato touch him at this point? He cant get inside especially if he has to jump, Itachi will easily notice him before he can land & will stop him with either genjutsu or a simple ama shot.
2. They dont need to be high enough to block minato's field of view, do you even know what surrounding the floor in ama does? It forces minato to approach itachi from mid air, since this is the case then Itachi has the immediate advantage with sharingan, ama & tsukuyomi. Its a trap, a trap that minato can do nothing about Lol.
3. So you're basically saying that minato can tank ama flames, jeez I think I'm done here
4. No :|
5. His vision is fine if he can keep up with sasuke & maintain susanoo until his death, sure he'll get pain but it most certainly wont be enough to stop him or any of his jutsus.
No it doesnt, read the manga. Ephemeral requires a point, that is all...
& of course genjutsu gives itachi the win, what does genjutsu do? it paralyzes the opponent, unless minato has a counter for genjutsu then he's falling for it. & of course kurenai could oneshot minato, but that's if she can even cast her genjutsu before he teleports. lol its common sense
Fail, I didnt make any claims, you made all the false accusations, show me proof then, I dont need proof contradicting you when you yourself can provide none of your own. Honestly, i think its funny how you're trying to turn this argument back on me when you get backed into a corner. Proof or gtfo! =D
Of course, jinton is OP, does minato have a jutsu that can obliterate susanoo in one swipe? Didnt think so. No onoki = madara wouldnt even had to have pulled out PS.
& here we go again, abc logic? really? terrible, just terrible... Not only did A eventually get captured by susanoo (albeit it was due to distraction but Itachi can easily do the same with clones) but minato is only faster than him with FTG, how is FTG gonna help him when the kunai are all scattered in multiple areas that would put minato at a disadvantage.
Here we go again with your sh*tty fallacies. Yes susano eats away at the users life but itachi had susanoo for his entire adult career. He has been putting up with the pain from susanoo long enough & its laughable that you think he cant last one simple battle with it activated.
Itachi used tsukuyomi which got broken, & that drastically hurt itachi's eyes, & he used amaterasu twice & for an unnecessary amount of time. Then & was still able to maintain susanoo until the moment that he died. Sasuke in MS had problems maintaining susanoo as he was going blind but he still could never maintain it as steadily as Itachi.
Sasuke even notes how painful it must have been for itachi.You must be registered for see links
The fact that Itachi was able to perfect his susanoo & still keep a substantial amount of his eyesight for years after he awakened it proves that he can maintain it for extended periods of time. Just look at MS sasuke who went blind after spamming susanoo against the entire 5 kage, if he can do it against 5 ninja then Itachi can against one. Otherwise prove to me that minato can last longer than sasuke did & also prove that minato can break tsukuyomi which dramatically reduced Itachi's eyesight as well.
No proof? No argument Lol.
F*cking hilarious, its actually vice versa, you still have no manga scans to support your biased logic, Kakashi countering itachi is your only shred of evidence, nice feats & logic! XD
Okay, if it's so simple then explain it to me. How can Itachi summon a flock of crows, making poofing smoke and flying birds, then form them into a clone of himself, then have it hide in an empty room, all in front of a Sharingan user no less, without plot hax?
The Sharingan can track movement before it happens... so how did Itachi use a Crow Clone right in front of Sasuke and him not notice anything? Hmm?
Sharingan also isn't that good. The Uchihas got their asses kicked by the Senju, Izuna got killed by Tobirama, Madara got killed by Hashirama, Sasuke and Kakashi keep getting hit, Obito and Kakashi fought to a draw, and Itachi is no different.
Tenten is the only one stated to have superior shurikenjutsu, stating that she never misses. Itachi hasn't been given the same praise. Itachi is not the only character that can throw a kunai straight, don't delude yourself. Unless... you can prove that other ninjas can't throw straight. Go ahead, show me that Itachi can throw straighter than anyone else. What an f'n joke.
It was B.S. how Nagato's "blindspots" were hit, because stabbing someone in the eyes isn't attacking their blindspots. And yes, plot hax did happen.
Wow, Itachi can judge where someone is without seeing. I once caught a punch from someone attacking me from behind, it's not magic.
1. Why does Minato have to touch Itachi at that point?
2. Minato can still attack from a range, he doesn't have to get close to Itachi, and Itachi will have to jump to leave the circle which leaves him vulnerable too.
3. Why do you keep thinking that all Minato can do is punch Itachi? First of all, Minato could use a Shadow Clone and have it sacrifice itself to charge through Amaterasu with a Rasengan. Also, you know that Minato could summon a toad and have it spew oil at Itachi, Amaterasu will ignite the oil and burn Itachi. Or the toad could spit gigantic water bullets at Itachi, Amaterasu isn't going to do anything to protect him. Minato could probably even use Food Cart Destroyer and crush Itachi if desperate enough. There's also the possibility of summoning the Ni Dai Sennin and having them use Frog Song on a stationary Itachi.
4. Why not? Being surrounded by fire, it must get hot in there. If he stays in there too long, he'll probably sweat to death.
5. It'll still hinder him, that's the point. Itachi has about 3 safe uses of MS before he gets too low on chakra.
Read the manga, Itachi did handseals.
How does Itachi can his genjutsu before Minato teleports?
And technically, genjutsu doesn't paralyze the opponent, it tricks the opponent's senses into thinking something's real when it isn't. Genjutsu also isn't a rare ability, so how do ninjas fight in wars and become legendary without ever facing a genjutsu user? Why aren't all genjutsu users legendary if genjutsu is so hax? Why did the Senju dominate the Uchiha?
You made the claim that Susanoo would hit Minato, you implied that I was wrong about Susanoo having a moderate range, and you wanted to argue about how long Itachi can keep Susanoo up when in the manga it wasn't very long.
I wasn't talking about Onoki blasting all of the Susanoos, I'm talking about before that when the Gokage are each fighting 5 Susanoos each and are holding their own.
It's implied that Minato is faster without FTG, his Body Flicker has been hyped too by Tobirama and in Kakashi Gaiden. Although for physical speed, I will admit it could go either way.
I'm not saying that Susanoo will kill Itachi in one battle, but he saved Susanoo as a last resort and for good reason; it's a huge risk, it takes a heavy toll on the user's body and eats away at the user's life. Not to mention that using Susanoo slows the user down as shown with Madara, another drawback if Itachi wants to stay quick on his feat.
That's also a huge difference between Sasuke and Itachi. Once Sasuke got MS he spammed it like crazy, his other jutsus (and skill, apparently) no longer seemed to exist. Itachi on the other hand relied more on his skills and lesser jutsus, relying on MS when needed. He resorted to Tsukiyomi when trying to get out of Konoha before their entire military showed up, he used Amaterasu to escape Jiraiya's jutsu, and he started to use MS against Sasuke near the end of the fight when genjutsu, crows, and fireballs weren't pushing Sasuke hard enough.
Haha, you're comparing Minato to Sasuke? Weren't you the one saying early about not using A>B>C logic? Your bias and fallacies know no bounds,
Your reply shows how much denial you're in. But hey, at least it shows that you aren't in complete denial.