Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

[Turson]

That's not even what Madara said.

These are his exact words:

Spoiler

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Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

"It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.

Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.

Spoiler

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Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:

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Then Madara says this:

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Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.

Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.

This post ends this thread.

 

[thegame]

no sry but i am the one who had lost the will to argue because you are so stupid its funny.

I said from the very beginning that senju DNA improves ur chakra, and susanoo's strength is based on the user's chakra. but i guess ur just too dumb to understand that.

hiruzen and onoki lived longer than mito. u really are stupid...

mito lived from the time of hashirama to the time of minato, and im not gona bother to find the manga page becuase ur a fool.

about sasuke and karin, im not even gona bother...

Haha please tell me more about how long Uzumaki Mito lived, the evidence is there, I'm sure, hahaha, or do I really need to prove that if she was the same age as Hashirama, she didn't live longer than any of them? Lets make a rough time-line here without evidence. Hashirama died when he was aproximately 30 years old.
Hiruzen was probably 15 when hashi died. Mito dies when Kushina joins Konoha. Kushina was about 10. Kushina then dies about 10 years later (was more, but lets keep it simple). Now I don't remember Hirus age, but it has been said before and in the databooks as well, so from this it would be easy to define Mitos age.. Nvm. Hiru lived 25 years more than kushina (aproximately). So this makes Hiruzen live just as long as her. Onoki is probably a few years older than Hiru. Onoki is still alive. He must be older. I know the page you try to refer to, the only page where Mito is shown. And yeah she looks like an old hag that stayed inside Konoha her whole life, cause she was a "weapon", and as I said before, it would depend whether she was older than hashirama or not, but there is no way to prove this anyway. But as I said IF... Feel free to disprove it, lol

And if you said that from the start why did you saying it again, I said the same in an earlier reply anyway?

 

[Xaviour]

Perfect Susanoo is EMS justsu. Onooki even asked why Madara didnt use it against him in the past, Madara answered that there was no need to use it against a kid.

Very good observation, also if it was a Rinnegan tech I don't know why we wouldn't see Nagato running around using it

 

[Namikaze Haru]

Haha please tell me more about how long Uzumaki Mito lived, the evidence is there, I'm sure, hahaha, or do I really need to prove that if she was the same age as Hashirama, she didn't live longer than any of them? Lets make a rough time-line here without evidence. Hashirama died when he was aproximately 30 years old.
Hiruzen was probably 15 when hashi died. Mito dies when Kushina joins Konoha. Kushina was about 10. Kushina then dies about 10 years later (was more, but lets keep it simple). Now I don't remember Hirus age, but it has been said before and in the databooks as well, so from this it would be easy to define Mitos age.. Nvm. Hiru lived 25 years more than kushina (aproximately). So this makes Hiruzen live just as long as her. Onoki is probably a few years older than Hiru. Onoki is still alive. He must be older. I know the page you try to refer to, the only page where Mito is shown. And yeah she looks like an old hag that stayed inside Konoha her whole life, cause she was a "weapon", and as I said before, it would depend whether she was older than hashirama or not, but there is no way to prove this anyway. But as I said IF... Feel free to disprove it, lol

And if you said that from the start why did you saying it again, I said the same in an earlier reply anyway?

...really?

but like i said i can't be bothered -_-

 

[Namikaze Haru]

Very good observation, also if it was a Rinnegan tech I don't know why we wouldn't see Nagato running around using it

ur forgetting nagato eyes were implanted as the rinnegan he did was only of the senju lineage, he had no relation to the uchiha. susanoo is originally an MS/EMS ability but add senju DNA, it gives you the rinnegan and PS

 

[Turson]

ur forgetting nagato eyes were implanted as the rinnegan he did was only of the senju lineage, he had no relation to the uchiha. susanoo is originally an MS/EMS ability but add senju DNA, it gives you the rinnegan and PS

Not possible, since during his fight against Mu and Onooki Madara was far from getting Senju DNA, let alone Rinnegan.

 

[SharinganWarrior]

It has to be EMS as Madara stated no one who had seen it had lived, which means he used it against people and as we saw in the manga, he gained the Rinnegan as an old man.

Omg, I totally agree with you. I almost believed his theory about how u need uchiha+senju = Perfect Susanoo. But what you're saying makes more sense and valid.

 

[SharinganWarrior]

i think its because he had hashi's DNA



susanoo is an EMS ability, PS is debatable and they were just guessing madara's comment are not definitely pointing to PS, im not saying ur wrong however



im not going to argue with u mate, if u want to argue then GTFO. Madara said anyone who sees PS dies, why would he say that when hashirama beat him. where has manga made it clear that PS is an EMS. reread my post. i said susanoo is an EMS technique but PS is debatable.



so by your logic sasuke now has perfect susanoo?

NOOO. Sasuke doesn't have perfect susanoo yet. He only just obtained the EMS. it'll take sometime for him to get used to it and evolve it into the perfect susanoo.

 

[SharinganWarrior]

Did I say that? It's obvious that he has yet to unlock it...but EMS and only EMS is needed for PS.

I agree with you KidGamer65. He has yet to unlcok, he only just obtained his EMS. it'll take sometimes before his susanoo will evolve into perfect susanoo.

 

[SharinganWarrior]

To those idiots who thinks that you need Rinnegan for Perfect susanoo:

ok, so with only the Mangekyo Sharingan (Not eternal) (only 1 pair of eyes), the user can possess susanoo all the way up to "Final stage" (like itachi's for example: when he fought with orogimaru 8 headed serpent, plus the fight with nagato). That's the highest level susanoo one can achieve with "one pair of MS eyes." The Final susanoo is already really powerful, but it's still NOT perfect. It's bottom torso & legs are still tot present, only the uper body are visible above ground.

However, once you have obtain "Eternal Mangekyou," you are combining the power of "2 WHOLE ****ING PAIRS OF MS EYES." Thus, combining those 2 pairs of MS makes susanoo wayyyy more powerful and take it to a whole nother level beyond the limit of MS. Plus, The Uchiha is known for their powerful chakra and mental energy. Therefore, combing 2 MS = even MORE powerful chakra & mental energy = more powerful susanoo (perfect susanoo). That's why in the manga, Itachi said that "EMS will not only restore one's eyesight permanently, but also allow them to achieve even MORE power." Going from final susanoo to perfect susanoo. It's torso and legs will rise above ground to stand tall and mighty.

Basically:
1 pair MS = can go up to Final susanoo.
2 pairs MS combined (EMS) = goes beyond the limit of one pair MS--> More power = Perfect susanoo (it's way more powerful than final susanoo)


In conclusion:
one pair of eyes make susanoo final, two pairs of eyes make it Perfect.

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Final Susanoo

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Perfect susanoo

 

[saw2097]

EMS tech. Madara was a legend during his time. The PS explains a great deal about his legend. Besides the Rinnegan and Sharingan are two very different themed eyes. Why would Kishi mix the abilities like that.

 

[shelke]

My god, this thread is STILL going?

- Madara brings out In-complete form, and tells them 'I'll show you the true power of Uchiha':

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- Complete Sussano Form appears, and Madara says, 'Not yet' :

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- Final and Perfect Sussano. Onoki points out that he STABILIZED the CS to create PS. As you can clearly see Madara in scan two stabilizing his CM:

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If this doesn't end the discussion, I don't know what will. PS is only the stabilized form of CS. It's not some NEW kaleidoscope ability.

 

[ForgottenHero94]

i don't think its related to the rinnegan in anyway. I believe it to be the final stage of the EMS.

 

[SharinganWarrior]

i don't think its related to the rinnegan in anyway. I believe it to be the final stage of the ems.

this^

 

[ForgottenHero94]

despite sauske gaining EMS, i still don#t think he will unlock the susanoo in a perfect state. there is no need in kishi giving him that power. I'd like to see him learn another technique but i think it would be foolish giving him perfect susanoo

 

[psukkar]

impossible to say, madara has rinnegan and hasihrama dna.

Hard to say where the sharingan starts and end when it comes to his fighting stature.

at the moment Im thinking its a hasihrama dna improvement to the sharingan.

but tsuande said out loud "she cant believe hasihrama fought this" and madara didn't comment.