Is Konan the female and a depressed version of Itachi?

[Punk Hazard]

Itachi is the female and depressed version of Itachi

 

[Punk Hazard]

No she is horribly written, and nothing more than a robot. She was ready to kill her master with no hesitation (not even a hint of regret), but upon Nagato changing his mind later based on what he felt, she acts like she was good to begin with despite the TnJ and the book having nothing to do with her.

Any proper non robot actually has their own mind and despite following someone else's paths shows their own emotions towards things, not her though because she was nothing but a shadow clone of Nagato.

Non of this makes her a badly written character. Simply saying "Konan was an emotionless robot" isn't a valid argument as to why she's a bad character because all you're doing is listing traits that aren't inherently bad or good. This is the equivalent of going "Hidan is a cruel, killing machine, that's such bad writing."

Konan is a well written character because her cold demeanor and reliance on Nagato is the product of a consistent backstory. If nothing in Konan's past explained why she was cold and a follower, then you'd have a point, but that isn't the case. Her experiences are consistent with the personality she has as an adult; her going from kind-hearted and warm is consistent with her history, and ties into the entire point of the Ame orphans.

The character arcs of the Ame orphans was to show how war and suffering break people and their lives. The entire point of their story was to show the negative and evil side of warfare in the NarutoVerse. Konan having no family is the product of warfare. Konan finding Nagato and Yahiko is the product of warfare. Konan becoming invested in Nagato and Yahiko is the product of warfare. Her loss of Yahiko was the product of warfare, and subsequently, her personality is the product of warfare.

What you're doing is taking character traits that aren't endearing, and saying that a character is badly written for it, which is definitely not the case. Konan's "cold roboticness" is completely realistic relative to her experiences, which is why she's one of the few well-written characters.

 

[ToshiZO]

Non of this makes her a badly written character. Simply saying "Konan was an emotionless robot" isn't a valid argument as to why she's a bad character because all you're doing is listing traits that aren't inherently bad or good. This is the equivalent of going "Hidan is a cruel, killing machine, that's such bad writing."

Konan is a well written character because her cold demeanor and reliance on Nagato is the product of a consistent backstory. If nothing in Konan's past explained why she was cold and a follower, then you'd have a point, but that isn't the case. Her experiences are consistent with the personality she has as an adult; her going from kind-hearted and warm is consistent with her history, and ties into the entire point of the Ame orphans.

The character arcs of the Ame orphans was to show how war and suffering break people and their lives. The entire point of their story was to show the negative and evil side of warfare in the NarutoVerse. Konan having no family is the product of warfare. Konan finding Nagato and Yahiko is the product of warfare. Konan becoming invested in Nagato and Yahiko is the product of warfare. Her loss of Yahiko was the product of warfare, and subsequently, her personality is the product of warfare.

What you're doing is taking character traits that aren't endearing, and saying that a character is badly written for it, which is definitely not the case. Konan's "cold roboticness" is completely realistic relative to her experiences, which is why she's one of the few well-written characters.

LMAO no. It is not the same as saying Hidan is badly written.

The issue is Konan at the time of her death was portrayed as this kind, hero like character, but it is a complete failure on Kishimotos part, because he didn't show any signs of her humanity when she was carrying out acts like killing her sensei.

She was not the one who was talked into TnJ, she did not feel the impact of Naruto's speech, yet she was portrayed like Nagato was, which makes for hands down one of the top 5 worst written characters in the series.

It's about what the authors intentions are and how he carries them out. You can't have a character cold af and then later act like she wasn't cold just two days ago. Konan was a complete failure as a character.

 

[LoZelda101]

Yes they both were puppets. No because itachi had a hidden motive against the puppeteer. Which was keep sasuke alive, force him to become stronger and avenge/redeem the clan by "killing" itachi. His plan technicality failed but in the end he succeeded thanks to himself(edo), hashi(origin) and naruto(hope).

 

[123fire]

Konan is cool I loved her fight and her character against Obito

 

[Punk Hazard]

LMAO no. It is not the same as saying Hidan is badly written.

The issue is Konan at the time of her death was portrayed as this kind, hero like character, but it is a complete failure on Kishimotos part, because he didn't show any signs of her humanity when she was carrying out acts like killing her sensei.

She was not the one who was talked into TnJ, she did not feel the impact of Naruto's speech, yet she was portrayed like Nagato was, which makes for hands down one of the top 5 worst written characters in the series.

It's about what the authors intentions are and how he carries them out. You can't have a character cold af and then later act like she wasn't cold just two days ago. Konan was a complete failure as a character.

This just shows that you have a poor understanding of Konan's character. In fact, you don't seem to grasp that faults in who a character is as a person isn't the same thing as faults in how they're written as a character. A great example of this is Walter White from Breaking Bad. By the end of the series, he's an extremely shitty PERSON, but he's a great CHARACTER. His traits as a person are deplorable, but the writing of him as a character is fantastic. Why? Because every great story is rooted in cause and effect. This happens because that happens because this happens because that happens. And the same applies for Konan. She isn't anywhere nearly as well-written, but she fulfills these parameters of good writing because the way she ends up follows the cause and effect pattern.

You're taking Konan going from cold to warm, and isolating it from the rest of her story arc, and therein lies the problem. If the main parameters for good writing, especially of a character, is cause an effect, then isolating the effect from the cause to critique its validity and its quality of writing is inherently flawed. To evaluate if this transformation in Konan is good or bad, we have to look at what caused this transformation, and what caused the cause for that, and what caused the cause for that, all the way up until the beginning of her character arc, so let's start at the beginning and work our way down.

Konan's character arc begins with the same setting and purpose as Nagato and Yahiko: Made orphans by war for the purpose of telling a story of how warfare in the Naruto world destroys and ruins lives, and robs people of their humanity. It's important to bear in mind that this is the point of the story arc of the Ame Orphans up until they invade Konoha. It's safe to assume that all three orphans were like Nagato before they found each other: scared, alone, and with no real value in life because their life truly didn't have any great quality. They were homeless, orphaned, and broke in a country riddled with constant warfare. They then find each other, and because of this condition in life, they become emotionally invested in one another.

That is important because it becomes the basis for the cause in Konan's transformations. She becomes invested in Yahiko and Nagato the same way one is invested in family. If you're a person with absolutely nothing, surrounded by death and war, and you have no family or friends, this is gonna become extremely important you. It's heavily stressed that the relationship between the Ame Orphans is the most important thing in their lives because it is the only thing they truly have, and it's what saved their lives. Yahiko and Nagato bring meaning to their lives, Yahiko even more so because she develops a romantic investment in him. So not only is Yahiko one of the only things she has in her life, but he's something she loves. Surely, I don't need to stress how important that is to a homeless orphan surrounded by war, do I? The cause and effect her is fulfilled by having Konan's status as an orphan cause her investment in Yahiko and Nagato as family.

Then, she loses him. This thing that is extremely and utterly important to her is taken away from her permanently. Just like her family before she had Yahiko and Nagato, her family is taken from her once again. Yahiko's death demonstrates the psychologically destructive effect war has on a person, which ties into the entire point of the Ame Orphans as characters. For Nagato, he goes from a person who can't lift his hand to harm another living thing and cries at the thought of violence and murder, to savagely and remorselessly slaughtering an entire group of people with zero regard for his own health. The cause and effect pattern is fulfilled here by showing that Yahiko's death is the cause for both Konan and Nagato becoming cold, cynical, and murderous. Not to mention the fact that Yahiko died so that she could live. Survivor's guilt could also play a big roll in the loss of Yahiko causing Konan to break psychologically as Nagato did.

Why does she feel no remorse for Jiraiya's death? Because it's Konoha's fault that Yahiko died. The entire war is because Konoha was at war with some other nations and they used Amegakure as the battleground. Konoha betraying Akatuski and setting them up for ambush is what led to Yahiko losing his life. Notice that the only times we see Konan as being cold are to the Five Great Nations. The Amegakure villagers describe her as an "angel" who helps them, and she ensures that the Amegakure ninja Jiraiya possessed got away safely. It makes perfect sense for Konan to be cold towards Jiraiya, a Leaf shinobi, as an effect, with the cause being the fact that Konoha carries blame for Konan losing her family twice. Just like the previous two paragraphs, the cause of the effect in this one as in of itself an effect of another cause.

The reason Konan seems to have no real thoughts for herself is again rooted into her investment with Yahiko and Nagato. The last meaningful conversation she had with Yahiko before his death was that Nagato was the bridge to peace. This is the last impactful thing Konan got from the most important thing to her before it was taken forever. You don't think that's going to rest in her mind? That's why Konan regards Nagato's views as absolute. Nagato is the last remaining family she has, and the family that she loved dearly and just lost told her to trust in what Nagato believes in and can do. That's why she's so robotic to Nagato, and that's why she acts warmly towards Naruto after the talk no jutsu. You are wrong to say that it had no effect on her. It had no effect on her DIRECTLY, but it indirectly affected her because it affected Nagato. This is someone she has invested utter belief in. Yes, you can argue that she has blind faith in Nagato and will follow him unconditionally. But for the reasons I mentioned above, it makes perfect sense for Konan to have that mentality.

Everything about Konan is interconnected with a cause and effect storyline, with the causes and effects not being directly linear. Even if the traits she has a character are negative in quality, the reasons her character has those traits is the product of good writing.

 

[123fire]

Never put Konan in the same sentence as Itachi, she was a braindead robot unable to even think for herself. One of the most trash characters in the entire manga, strictly from a written perspective. Itachi is one of the only well written characters in this series.

Robot? Did u see her fight against Obito???

 

[ToshiZO]

This just shows that you have a poor understanding of Konan's character. In fact, you don't seem to grasp that faults in who a character is as a person isn't the same thing as faults in how they're written as a character. A great example of this is Walter White from Breaking Bad. By the end of the series, he's an extremely shitty PERSON, but he's a great CHARACTER. His traits as a person are deplorable, but the writing of him as a character is fantastic. Why? Because every great story is rooted in cause and effect. This happens because that happens because this happens because that happens. And the same applies for Konan. She isn't anywhere nearly as well-written, but she fulfills these parameters of good writing because the way she ends up follows the cause and effect pattern.

You're taking Konan going from cold to warm, and isolating it from the rest of her story arc, and therein lies the problem. If the main parameters for good writing, especially of a character, is cause an effect, then isolating the effect from the cause to critique its validity and its quality of writing is inherently flawed. To evaluate if this transformation in Konan is good or bad, we have to look at what caused this transformation, and what caused the cause for that, and what caused the cause for that, all the way up until the beginning of her character arc, so let's start at the beginning and work our way down.

Konan's character arc begins with the same setting and purpose as Nagato and Yahiko: Made orphans by war for the purpose of telling a story of how warfare in the Naruto world destroys and ruins lives, and robs people of their humanity. It's important to bear in mind that this is the point of the story arc of the Ame Orphans up until they invade Konoha. It's safe to assume that all three orphans were like Nagato before they found each other: scared, alone, and with no real value in life because their life truly didn't have any great quality. They were homeless, orphaned, and broke in a country riddled with constant warfare. They then find each other, and because of this condition in life, they become emotionally invested in one another.

That is important because it becomes the basis for the cause in Konan's transformations. She becomes invested in Yahiko and Nagato the same way one is invested in family. If you're a person with absolutely nothing, surrounded by death and war, and you have no family or friends, this is gonna become extremely important you. It's heavily stressed that the relationship between the Ame Orphans is the most important thing in their lives because it is the only thing they truly have, and it's what saved their lives. Yahiko and Nagato bring meaning to their lives, Yahiko even more so because she develops a romantic investment in him. So not only is Yahiko one of the only things she has in her life, but he's something she loves. Surely, I don't need to stress how important that is to a homeless orphan surrounded by war, do I? The cause and effect her is fulfilled by having Konan's status as an orphan cause her investment in Yahiko and Nagato as family.

Then, she loses him. This thing that is extremely and utterly important to her is taken away from her permanently. Just like her family before she had Yahiko and Nagato, her family is taken from her once again. Yahiko's death demonstrates the psychologically destructive effect war has on a person, which ties into the entire point of the Ame Orphans as characters. For Nagato, he goes from a person who can't lift his hand to harm another living thing and cries at the thought of violence and murder, to savagely and remorselessly slaughtering an entire group of people with zero regard for his own health. The cause and effect pattern is fulfilled here by showing that Yahiko's death is the cause for both Konan and Nagato becoming cold, cynical, and murderous. Not to mention the fact that Yahiko died so that she could live. Survivor's guilt could also play a big roll in the loss of Yahiko causing Konan to break psychologically as Nagato did.

Why does she feel no remorse for Jiraiya's death? Because it's Konoha's fault that Yahiko died. The entire war is because Konoha was at war with some other nations and they used Amegakure as the battleground. Konoha betraying Akatuski and setting them up for ambush is what led to Yahiko losing his life. Notice that the only times we see Konan as being cold are to the Five Great Nations. The Amegakure villagers describe her as an "angel" who helps them, and she ensures that the Amegakure ninja Jiraiya possessed got away safely. It makes perfect sense for Konan to be cold towards Jiraiya, a Leaf shinobi, as an effect, with the cause being the fact that Konoha carries blame for Konan losing her family twice. Just like the previous two paragraphs, the cause of the effect in this one as in of itself an effect of another cause.

The reason Konan seems to have no real thoughts for herself is again rooted into her investment with Yahiko and Nagato. The last meaningful conversation she had with Yahiko before his death was that Nagato was the bridge to peace. This is the last impactful thing Konan got from the most important thing to her before it was taken forever. You don't think that's going to rest in her mind? That's why Konan regards Nagato's views as absolute. Nagato is the last remaining family she has, and the family that she loved dearly and just lost told her to trust in what Nagato believes in and can do. That's why she's so robotic to Nagato, and that's why she acts warmly towards Naruto after the talk no jutsu. You are wrong to say that it had no effect on her. It had no effect on her DIRECTLY, but it indirectly affected her because it affected Nagato. This is someone she has invested utter belief in. Yes, you can argue that she has blind faith in Nagato and will follow him unconditionally. But for the reasons I mentioned above, it makes perfect sense for Konan to have that mentality.

Everything about Konan is interconnected with a cause and effect storyline, with the causes and effects not being directly linear. Even if the traits she has a character are negative in quality, the reasons her character has those traits is the product of good writing.

Holy crap, Great Wall of China over here.

Anyways, this fails to explain how the author tried to portray her as a kind hearted hero at the time of her death, despite showing absolutely no signs of humanity while carrying acts that were not even her decisions to start with.

Good writing always drops hints and foreshadowing of some sort so we can say, oh ok this change makes sense, or this was a part of the character to begin with.

Lousy writing is going from one extreme to the other without any hints, Kubo does this all the time and we're supposed to eat it up. Sorry but Konan falls under the lousy writing category, none of what you said justifies how her character was handled.

The TnJ did not affect her, she did NOT change in any way, yet she is portrayed to have changed the same as Nagato did when nothing was even directed towards her. Humans do not work like that, Kishi failed in foreshadowing and thus we got a stale, robotic, lazy character that is Konan.

All she had to do was show signs of her own personality before Nagato's change, the fact that this came after is too late, and is the case of the author trying to feed us whatever he wants with no effort.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Holy crap, Great Wall of China over here.

Anyways, this fails to explain how the author tried to portray her as a kind hearted hero at the time of her death, despite showing absolutely no signs of humanity while carrying acts that were not even her decisions to start with.

I did explain that. Konan did show signs of humanity with the fact that she told the man Jiraiya had possessed to run to safety. She showed humanity when she revealed that she followed Nagato because she believes him to the bridge that will finally enact the closest thing to true peace for all of humanity.

You fail to acknowledge the fact that Konan's cold demeanor was towards enemies like Jiraiya and Leaf shinobi, when she and Nagato harbored deep hatred for Konoha due to the effects the village had on their lives. Do you have any scans that show Konan being cold and ruthless to anyone who WASN'T an obstacle to what she thought was true peace throughout the world?

How is Konan any different from Kakashi, who was cold and ruthless towards Akatsuki members because he perceived them as threats to his idea of peace and order, when she did the same thing? The only difference is that one is an antagonist and one is a protagonist. In Konan's mind, she WAS doing the right thing before Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

Good writing always drops hints and foreshadowing of some sort so we can say, oh ok this change makes sense, or this was a part of the character to begin with.

And Konan fulfills this. Konan's character change makes sense because it's the result of her losing her family for the second time for the same reason: War Konoha is having with the great villages. Konan's view shifting alongside with Nagato's was part of her character to begin with because she also took a backseat to Yahiko and Nagato as she believed they were the bridges to peace.

Lousy writing is going from one extreme to the other without any hints, Kubo does this all the time and we're supposed to eat it up. Sorry but Konan falls under the lousy writing category, none of what you said justifies how her character was handled.

Konan never went from one extreme to another "without any hints." Her changing with Nagato was "hinted" when she became cold and cynical because his views were cold and cynical. And her investment in Nagato's views as absolute is hinted when another person whose beliefs she were invested in explained to her why Nagato was the true bridge to peace. It didn't come out of nowhere.

The TnJ did not affect her, she did NOT change in any way, yet she is portrayed to have changed the same as Nagato did when nothing was even directed towards her. Humans do not work like that, Kishi failed in foreshadowing and thus we got a stale, robotic, lazy character that is Konan.

It affected her indirectly. The Talk no Jutsu caused Nagato's views to shift. As a result of the psychological trauma she received when Yahiko died, along with events that preceded his death, Konan developed a deep investment in Nagato's beliefs. If Nagato changes, she likewise changes because her psychological damage created that connection to Nagato. You can argue that that's a faulty trait to have, but that wouldn't be a fault in Konan as a character, it'd be a fault in Konan as a person.

All she had to do was show signs of her own personality before Nagato's change, the fact that this came after is too late, and is the case of the author trying to feed us whatever he wants with no effort.

Yup, like I said, this shows that you never grasped Konan's character in the first place. She did have her own personality. Then, Yahiko died. That broke both her and Nagato mentally. That, plus the fact that the last intimate conversation she had with Yahiko ended with "Nagato is the bridge to peace," led to her individual personality decaying to one that accommodated her investment in Nagato.

 

[Demonic.]

Robot? Did u see her fight against Obito???

Hell yeah I seen her whoop your favs ass bruh. Your fodder fav lucky he had izanagi tbh.

 

[ToshiZO]

You are still failing to explain how she was portrayed as some hero, she even started having a flashback of Jiraiya and how good of a man he was.

Again absolutely no hints when everything was going down, and all of a sudden near her death, she becomes this hero despite her having absolutely nothing to do with Naruto or TnJ? Let's say Nagato did not fall for Talk no Jutsu, would she be saying these things?

Spoiler

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The answer to that is no, yet Kishi tries to fool readers like you into thinking she does. Terrible writing, nothing you said changes that. You're just going off about her backstory and what not, when you fail to understand how her whole fight and demeanor against Tobi makes zero sense and was not hinted at one bit.

She only said the things she said to Tobi because Nagato changed due to Naruto, she did not. If Nagato told Naruto to **** off, nothing she said against Tobi would have even been hinted at, but suddenly we're supposed to believe she is some shining light making grand heroic speeches? Lmfao get real. She literally does not have a brain of her own.

 

[shelke]

Konan was much better written than Itachi. The latter only gained a bit of "emotions" during his farewell to Sasuke. Other than that, he was an emotionless, tone-deaf robot.

As far as puppetry goes, that Itachi's strings were never his own. He danced to the whims of Konoha's Elders till his last breath.

 

[123fire]

Hell yeah I seen her whoop your favs ass bruh. Your fodder fav lucky he had izanagi tbh.

I'm talking about her personality in the fight , she wasn't a robot

 

[123fire]

You are still failing to explain how she was portrayed as some hero, she even started having a flashback of Jiraiya and how good of a man he was.

Again absolutely no hints when everything was going down, and all of a sudden near her death, she becomes this hero despite her having absolutely nothing to do with Naruto or TnJ? Let's say Nagato did not fall for Talk no Jutsu, would she be saying these things?

Spoiler

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The answer to that is no, yet Kishi tries to fool readers like you into thinking she does. Terrible writing, nothing you said changes that. You're just going off about her backstory and what not, when you fail to understand how her whole fight and demeanor against Tobi makes zero sense and was not hinted at one bit.

She only said the things she said to Tobi because Nagato changed due to Naruto, she did not. If Nagato told Naruto to **** off, nothing she said against Tobi would have even been hinted at, but suddenly we're supposed to believe she is some shining light making grand heroic speeches? Lmfao get real. She literally does not have a brain of her own.

She had 2 friends and lights in her life , Yahiko and Nagato , Yahiko died now there's one left , because yahiko died she became quite dark , however after seeing her only light left in her life sacrificing his life for naruto she too changed , because he was her only hope/light , her only friend , it make perfect sense that she changes after seeing all that from Nagato , what doesn't make sense is you

 

[Punk Hazard]

You are still failing to explain how she was portrayed as some hero, she even started having a flashback of Jiraiya and how good of a man he was.

Konan was always portrayed as a person who believed what she was doing was the righteous thing to do. Why? Because her beliefs stemmed from a conviction to Nagato. When Nagato died, he entrusted his will of establishing peace onto Naruto and Naruto's way of doing things. That caused Konan's outlook to change to agree with Naruto because of her emotional and mental conviction to Naruto, which is established by her past with him.

Again absolutely no hints when everything was going down, and all of a sudden near her death, she becomes this hero despite her having absolutely nothing to do with Naruto or TnJ? Let's say Nagato did not fall for Talk no Jutsu, would she be saying these things?

Spoiler

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@Bold: And there is where your argument falls apart. You cannot say Konan's change doesn't make sense by saying "Let's ignore why she changed."

If I were to play your game, I could say let's ignore the fact that Itachi was traumatized by war at a young age; that means it makes no sense he would kill his loved ones to prevent war. But that doesn't make any sense.

Saying "Let's pretend Nagato didn't blah blah blah" is irrelevant because it DID happen and that plays a central role in why Konan changed. You can't say "This character's change makes no sense if we take away the reason it happened," that's just stupid.

The answer to that is no, yet Kishi tries to fool readers like you into thinking she does. Terrible writing, nothing you said changes that. You're just going off about her backstory and what not, when you fail to understand how her whole fight and demeanor against Tobi makes zero sense and was not hinted at one bit.

Incorrect. Konan's decisions have always revolved around two things: Desire for peace and Yahiko's and Nagato's(just Nagato's after Yahiko died) vision to establish peace. Because Nagato's vision for peace changed, it makes perfect sense that Konan's would as well because she has always been felt a conviction to Yahiko's and Nagato's visions. She has a dependence on them.

She only said the things she said to Tobi because Nagato changed due to Naruto, she did not.

This just shows how poorly you've been paying attention to my posts and to the story. Konan has always changed WITH Nagato. Konan changing because Nagato changed isn't something that came out of the blue, it was established in their backstory.

If Nagato told Naruto to **** off, nothing she said against Tobi would have even been hinted at,

See?! You literally just admitted that Nagato conceding to Naruto IS the hint towards what Konan said to Tobi. You keep on saying "If the reason Konan changed didn't happen, the change wouldn't have happened. Therefore, her change had no reason."

but suddenly we're supposed to believe she is some shining light making grand heroic speeches? Lmfao get real. She literally does not have a brain of her own.

The bolded is EXACTLY why we're supposed to believe the underlined part. Konan's vision depends on Nagato's vision because of the trauma she experienced. The fact that Konan has no resolve of her own is a fault in her as a person, but it's not a fault in the writing of her character because that was ALWAYS the nature of her character.

 

[ToshiZO]

Konan was always portrayed as a person who believed what she was doing was the righteous thing to do. Why? Because her beliefs stemmed from a conviction to Nagato. When Nagato died, he entrusted his will of establishing peace onto Naruto and Naruto's way of doing things. That caused Konan's outlook to change to agree with Naruto because of her emotional and mental conviction to Naruto, which is established by her past with him.



@Bold: And there is where your argument falls apart. You cannot say Konan's change doesn't make sense by saying "Let's ignore why she changed."

If I were to play your game, I could say let's ignore the fact that Itachi was traumatized by war at a young age; that means it makes no sense he would kill his loved ones to prevent war. But that doesn't make any sense.

Saying "Let's pretend Nagato didn't blah blah blah" is irrelevant because it DID happen and that plays a central role in why Konan changed. You can't say "This character's change makes no sense if we take away the reason it happened," that's just stupid.



Incorrect. Konan's decisions have always revolved around two things: Desire for peace and Yahiko's and Nagato's(just Nagato's after Yahiko died) vision to establish peace. Because Nagato's vision for peace changed, it makes perfect sense that Konan's would as well because she has always been felt a conviction to Yahiko's and Nagato's visions. She has a dependence on them.


This just shows how poorly you've been paying attention to my posts and to the story. Konan has always changed WITH Nagato. Konan changing because Nagato changed isn't something that came out of the blue, it was established in their backstory.


See?! You literally just admitted that Nagato conceding to Naruto IS the hint towards what Konan said to Tobi. You keep on saying "If the reason Konan changed didn't happen, the change wouldn't have happened. Therefore, her change had no reason."



The bolded is EXACTLY why we're supposed to believe the underlined part. Konan's vision depends on Nagato's vision because of the trauma she experienced. The fact that Konan has no resolve of her own is a fault in her as a person, but it's not a fault in the writing of her character because that was ALWAYS the nature of her character.

Lmfao no the argument does not fall apart, the fact that she said those things to Tobi meant somewhere deep down she had those feelings.

Those feelings were never hinted at even remotely before, but after Nagato's TnJ suddenly she becomes a hero of some sort. If Nagato did not fall for TnJ, she just like before would have continued doing what she was doing without even a single hint from the author that she sees Tobi as the darkness or something.

Nothing you say changes that one bit. It's called lousy writing, it is up to the author to show these things, in which Konan's case he clearly did not care enough about her to show, which left us with a failure of a character of epic proportions.

This is like Kakuzu giving some heroic speech before his death, obviously an exaggeration, but if the author fails to show any signs or hints characters like Konan end up looking real cheap and quickly thrown together.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lmfao no the argument does not fall apart, the fact that she said those things to Tobi meant somewhere deep down she had those feelings.

Yes. Konan has always believed that "flowers wilt in the darkness." She's always believed that the world needed a new beacon of light to establish peace and eradicate suffering. She once thought that that would be established through Nagato's violent vision. When Nagato expressed that that was wrong, she changed her mind about what was the best way to establish that light so flowers would't wilt.

Her sentiment to Obito isn't a new one, the sentiment just has a different focus. The reason that the focus is different is consistent with her character and her development up until that point in the story.

Those feelings were never hinted at even remotely before, but after Nagato's TnJ suddenly she becomes a hero of some sort. If Nagato did not fall for TnJ, she just like before would have continued doing what she was doing without even a single hint from the author that she sees Tobi as the darkness or something.

Konan and Nagato's goal was to establish world peace the entire time...how are her feelings that the world is a dark place and needs light new when the entire point of her and Nagato being in Akatsuki was to establish a peaceful world order?

@Bold: Why do you insist on repeating that asinine rhetoric? Konan's view of how to establish peace changed because Nagato's view of how to establish peace changed.

Nothing you say changes that one bit. It's called lousy writing, it is up to the author to show these things, in which Konan's case he clearly did not care enough about her to show, which left us with a failure of a character of epic proportions.

Man, you're just ****ing bad at paying attention. Konan ALWAYS wanted world peace. That has NEVER changed. What changed was outlook on HOW to achieve world peace. What changed was her outlook on Tobi. At first, she viewed him as an ally because that was his role in Nagato's vision. When Nagato adopted Naruto's vision, she adopted it as well because of her conviction to Nagato. Hell, that's hinted back when Yahiko died, as Konan believed that Yahiko was the bridge to peace. Then, when Yahiko declared with his dying breath that it was Nagato, Konan's conviction shifted to him. Then when Nagato declared that the bridge was Naruto, her conviction shifted to him as well. So yes, it was hinted back when Yahiko died that Konan would shift her convictions if her friends did as well.

This is like Kakuzu giving some heroic speech before his death, obviously an exaggeration, but if the author fails to show any signs or hints characters like Konan end up looking real cheap and quickly thrown together.

There's also readers like you who are horrible at paying attention to a character, and then blame the author when he's surprised as a result.

It's funny how you were saying at first that Konan is bad because she didn't show emotions and followed Nagato blindly. But now, she's bad because her last sentiments weren't hinted before. I guess it's just a coincidence that your reasoning completely changed when it was pointed out to you that her personality was the result of trauma. Go ahead, move the goalposts again to save face and fumble some more.

 

[Sagebee]

No but she was one of the few impressive female characters

 

[ToshiZO]

Yes. Konan has always believed that "flowers wilt in the darkness." She's always believed that the world needed a new beacon of light to establish peace and eradicate suffering. She once thought that that would be established through Nagato's violent vision. When Nagato expressed that that was wrong, she changed her mind about what was the best way to establish that light so flowers would't wilt.

Her sentiment to Obito isn't a new one, the sentiment just has a different focus. The reason that the focus is different is consistent with her character and her development up until that point in the story.



Konan and Nagato's goal was to establish world peace the entire time...how are her feelings that the world is a dark place and needs light new when the entire point of her and Nagato being in Akatsuki was to establish a peaceful world order?

@Bold: Why do you insist on repeating that asinine rhetoric? Konan's view of how to establish peace changed because Nagato's view of how to establish peace changed.



Man, you're just ****ing bad at paying attention. Konan ALWAYS wanted world peace. That has NEVER changed. What changed was outlook on HOW to achieve world peace. What changed was her outlook on Tobi. At first, she viewed him as an ally because that was his role in Nagato's vision. When Nagato adopted Naruto's vision, she adopted it as well because of her conviction to Nagato. Hell, that's hinted back when Yahiko died, as Konan believed that Yahiko was the bridge to peace. Then, when Yahiko declared with his dying breath that it was Nagato, Konan's conviction shifted to him. Then when Nagato declared that the bridge was Naruto, her conviction shifted to him as well. So yes, it was hinted back when Yahiko died that Konan would shift her convictions if her friends did as well.


There's also readers like you who are horrible at paying attention to a character, and then blame the author when he's surprised as a result.

It's funny how you were saying at first that Konan is bad because she didn't show emotions and followed Nagato blindly. But now, she's bad because her last sentiments weren't hinted before. I guess it's just a coincidence that your reasoning completely changed when it was pointed out to you that her personality was the result of trauma. Go ahead, move the goalposts again to save face and fumble some more.

Another useless post, that doesn't address anything. Konan being crap for not showing emotions and following Nagato blindly is because her last sentiments weren't hinted before you fanboy, stop spouting nonsense.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Another useless post, that doesn't address anything. Konan being crap for not showing emotions and following Nagato blindly is because her last sentiments weren't hinted before you fanboy, stop spouting nonsense.

Nope, it was always hinted.

Here, it's established that their mission was always peace, which hints that Konan always wanted a world with "light that would foster the growth of flowers."

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Here, with his dying breath, Yahiko says that Nagato and Konan are the to be saviors, which hints that Konan would invest in Nagato's and Yahiko's wills.

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Again it's established that their plan was for peace.

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Pein explicitly states here that the entire point of Akatsuki was peace

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We see her contemplating Nagato's decision to help Naruto here, which indicates that she too is starting to mull over what Naruto has said

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Here she expresses that Yahiko and Nagato were everything to her, which hints her conviction to them and their values of peace.

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Here she says that their dreams of peace are passed onto Naruto, and explicitly says that she follows Nagato's conviction in Naruto as well.

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And expresses that Naruto is the blossom of hope that never wilts, a direct allusion to calling Tobi the darkness that would wilt the flowers.

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Here she links Yahiko's and Nagato's wills to Naruto.

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We have Nagato's backstory providing the hints that Konan is convicted to Yahiko's and Nagato's dream. Then her thoughts while Nagato performs the Rinne Tensei hints that she is also shifting her conviction to Naruto, which is then explicitly stated. She calls Naruto the blossom of hope that won't wilt, which means that Naruto is now her bridge to peace. And all of this is consistent with the backstory Kishi gave Konan.

Keep trying to find excuses, you just look sad.