[Discussion] Is Jiraiya the most balanced shinobi?

Infant

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In close range, he can use his Shadow Form to capture any enemy and make them kill themselves with an explosive tag. We know from Kakashi vs Deva that jutsu which require only a few tags can be completed faster than common taijutsu moves. We know Jiraiya himself was fast enough to complete the move faster than Konan, who was fast enough to stop Kamui, can intercept him.

In mid range he has his hair and summons which beat Pein and Samehada for application speed.
Now this was a Pein who was only focussing on a single target with Jiraiya and using fewer paths (fewer distractions). Compare that to Kakashi who due to shared vision alone couldn't land a Chidori on Pein from point blank range. He was already mid flight when Pein first saw him yet was still fast enough to process that info and dodge. Jiraiya took that path from affront. When Kakashi fought Pein the latter also had an entire village to occupy himself with and look out for, such that even Konohamaru got a hit in, yet Chidori wasn't fast enough. For Jiraiya, it was just him that Pein was occupied with.
Samehada has KCM reaction and V2 application speeds, as per feats. She couldn't detect the summoning (and consume chakra) until after the block.

In long range, he has his Toad Army.
Gamabunta can spam Water Bullets that cleave through forests. The other toads also seem to have senjutsu attacks.
Ma and Pa have their genjutsu and can cast Toad on anyone who tries to get close
The frogs are also physically powerful. Bunta can jump to the clouds and the smaller guys can block a strike from Kisame, serious Kisame, with one arm.

In special circumstances, he has his trickery
His seals can take care of things like Ama
His toads can jump or overpower him out of most barriers
His reactions are good enough to get him into favourable positions even against numbers.

In light of all this, is Jiraiya the most well-rounded shinobi?
 

minamoto

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What do you mean by "fodder"?
jiraiya had chance to escape....but then decided that he will stay fighting pain till he know his true identity...

then when jiraiya was about to die he wrote some coded message on frog's back and told him to hurry to konoha so they can decipher it...

then it took few days for konoha to decipher that coded message...

teh coded message said : "the real one isn't among them "

problem is : why waist time and write coded message that dont contain valuable information about nagato...

why didn't jiraiya just write on frog back :" its nagato "..and save konoha trouble of deciphring that bullshit coded message???

and even if he wrote nagato....how would knowing it was nagato help konoha defeat nagato and akatsuki???...

thats how jiraiya died for fodder baka reason...

it was better if he stayed alive cuzz konoha needed him..
 
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Infant

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jiraiya had chance to escape....but then decided that he will stay fighting pain till he know his true identity...

then when jiraiya was about to die he wrote some coded message on frog's back and told him to hurry to konoha so they can decipher it...

then it took few days for konoha to decipher that coded message...

teh coded message said : "the real one isn't among them "

problem is : why waist time and write coded message that dont contain valuable information about nagato...

why didn't jiraiya just write on frog back :" its nagato "..and save konoha trouble of deciphring that bullshit coded message???

and even if he wrote nagato....how would knowing it was nagato help konoha defeat nagato and akatsuki???...

thats how jiraiya died for fodder baka reason...


it was better if he stayed alive cuzz konoha needed him..
Look at fodder Obito.

By keeping his identity secret, he had everyone believe he is Madara. So identity is very important for finding countermeasures.

So Jiraiya had to know identity to help find weakness.

He was too tired to write out full message. The name of Nagato alone is not enough because no one knows Rinnegan powers properly. So he had to give an answer that revealed how his powers work. He also gave them body.

Remember, it is established early in manga that body (Haku vs Zabuza) and identity are most important for finding enemy weakness
 

minamoto

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Look at fodder Obito.

By keeping his identity secret, he had everyone believe he is Madara. So identity is very important for finding countermeasures.

So Jiraiya had to know identity to help find weakness.

He was too tired to write out full message. The name of Nagato alone is not enough because no one knows Rinnegan powers properly. So he had to give an answer that revealed how his powers work. He also gave them body.

Remember, it is established early in manga that body (Haku vs Zabuza) and identity are most important for finding enemy weakness
but tobi is indeed madara...tobi mystery isnt over..

bobito denied his bobito identity...but badass tobi was proud to be madara...see tiference now???..
 

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i was just referencing the Obito version there, but it certainly ties in well.

Also, look at Gokage vs Zetsu fight
how would knowing nagato identity help find weakness of nagato???..

teh most important info that may would help..was nagato's rinnegan....and not nagato himself..

but still jiraiya had zero knowledge about rinnegan true abilities...jiraiya lost becuz of his ignorance...


knowledge is teh true power in naroto manga..not chakra or sage mode..
 
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how would knowing nagato identity help find weakness of nagato???..

teh most important info that may would help..was nagato's rinnegan....and not nagato himself..

but still jiraiya had zero knowledge about rinnegan true abilities...jiraiya lost becuz of his ignorance...


knowledge is teh true power in naroto manga..not chakra or sage mode..
Exactly, he had to find specific ability.
 
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minamoto

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Maybe he was trying to be realistic?

Like, if you are facing six guys with wierd eyes and reviving bodies, you would panic to death. Jiraiya even managing to collect a single clue is incredible mental strength.
i wrote u a detailed exemple of how kishi fvvck up with logic then it accidently got deleted when i tried to add emoji..

so yeah how'z life???..
 
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