Is Goku still a hero?

[Ansatsuken]

um did you even pay attention during the series? goku has never been a hero. its always been about the fight for him and whatever else happened happened. he really only showed hero qualities against raditz.

against the sayains he went all out vs vegeta and got creamed and when gohan lucked out and injured vegeta instead of having a superior "evil" opponent killed who could come back and wreck them at any moment he lets him live because he wants another fight for himself (goku as a character has no idea he's protected by plot and will get stronger than anyone so this is a selfish choice).

vs frieza he was heroic

during the cell arc he could have beat cell in their first fight at the cell games and saved the world and future trunks but instead he's in it to see some good fights so he drops out and has everybody get wrecked just to trigger gohan who becomes a weakling later anyway.

during the buu arc he could have killed fat buu in ss3 but chose not to so that everyone again could get wrecked and literally entire planets were destroyed. billions of lives lost so that goku could have a good fight.

he's never been a hero. he's always been a guy looking for a good fight and damn the consequences. they use the dragon balls as if its their own private property to fix all of gokus mistakes since he's literally failed to save earth and a crap ton of lives in every arc.


without the dragon balls goku would be seen as a villain more than a hero

EDIT: goku only ever sacrificed himself because he knew death wasn't a permanent thing. he knew he'd be able to come back every time. even after his death with cell he knew special rules applied to him and he'd always be able to come back and visit.

if anything the only real hero is vegeta who blew himself up against buu KNOWING he couldn't come back and that he'd be sent to hell not some luxury resort with king kai

I lol

 

[Kanino]

Why they are making him so dumb in the anime? Do Japanese people really find that funny ? Every time he acts retarded I go ugh.

Madarauchiwa you nailed that shit

 

[King Richard]

A God is above morals and since Goku is a God.... Goku was never a hero to begin with, he is a Saiyan, Saiyans are blood thirsty warriors who love to fight the only difference with Goku is instead of fighting against Earth he is fight for Earth, he is still a Saiyan,

 

[BusinessManTeno]

Yeah, I was never a fan of Goku. But in DBZ he was a lot smarter, serious and overall more likeable than he is in DBS. He pretty much is only a bored maniac at this point. I kinda wish Beerus destroyed him this episode, so Goku could come back to his senses in the afterlife.

Im going to be really honest with you, I think beerus likes goku.. Literally Goku has done alot of shit and if Zeno was as bad as they say, then beerus really shouldve killed goku.. But I think the bigger problem lies within goku bringing back another zeno for future zeno.. Its like.. two kids who want to play and have all this energy. Sooner or later some shit was gonna stir up..

Either way, I dont think Goku is that dumb about zeno. Like he said, In goku eyes Zeno is a super nice guy.. and I think zeno is nice.. I just think hes gonna add a stipulation.. You lose, you die.. No hard feelings. LOL once the first universe gets erased thats when the turning plot will happen.. Im going TO LOVE this arc, Cause Im sure goku is now going to become a major enemy to aLOT of ppl

 

[Saiyan Kammy]

Goku became the legend after hero.

 

[Shiroyasha]

um did you even pay attention during the series? goku has never been a hero. its always been about the fight for him and whatever else happened happened. he really only showed hero qualities against raditz.

against the sayains he went all out vs vegeta and got creamed and when gohan lucked out and injured vegeta instead of having a superior "evil" opponent killed who could come back and wreck them at any moment he lets him live because he wants another fight for himself (goku as a character has no idea he's protected by plot and will get stronger than anyone so this is a selfish choice).

vs frieza he was heroic

during the cell arc he could have beat cell in their first fight at the cell games and saved the world and future trunks but instead he's in it to see some good fights so he drops out and has everybody get wrecked just to trigger gohan who becomes a weakling later anyway.

during the buu arc he could have killed fat buu in ss3 but chose not to so that everyone again could get wrecked and literally entire planets were destroyed. billions of lives lost so that goku could have a good fight.

he's never been a hero. he's always been a guy looking for a good fight and damn the consequences. they use the dragon balls as if its their own private property to fix all of gokus mistakes since he's literally failed to save earth and a crap ton of lives in every arc.


without the dragon balls goku would be seen as a villain more than a hero

EDIT: goku only ever sacrificed himself because he knew death wasn't a permanent thing. he knew he'd be able to come back every time. even after his death with cell he knew special rules applied to him and he'd always be able to come back and visit.

if anything the only real hero is vegeta who blew himself up against buu KNOWING he couldn't come back and that he'd be sent to hell not some luxury resort with king kai

Just listen to yourself. You do know that if he hadn't let Vegeta live, Vegeta wouldn't be on Namek to eventually help Gohan and Krillin survive against Freiza and his army, right? Again, you have it all wrong. Goku COULD NOT beat Cell. He admitted it a number of times that Cell was superior to him. This is shown when even after all that fighting, Cell was holding back against Goku, because when he fought Gohan, he fully powered up.

Goku's main objective in the time chamber was to make Gohan stronger than he was. That was his plan all along.
Now lets move on to the Buu saga. His reasoning was right, because the world relied on him too many times to save them. Against King Piccolo, Against Junior, Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa, Freiza, Cell, and the Androids. Every time there was a problem, Goku always had to be the one to pull through for them. But they were all forgetting one thing, he's not immortal. Eventually, he and Vegeta would die and pass over to the other world. Now who would be the one to save them all?

They had to learn how to fend for themselves without both Goku and Vegeta. It's not like he didn't want to save them against Buu, but it's the fact that he wasn't going to be there forever. And the irony is that the one opportunity he had to come back and relax with his family and friends, which was a single day, was squandered over Babadi and his minions. Even if he did manage to defeat Buu, the one chance that he had to stay was gone.

Which is exactly why he decided to teach Goten and Trunks the fusion technique. Because they were literally the future, they were the upcoming generation of Saiyans, and they needed to get strong.
Now it's no secret that Goku isn't a saint. He's made a lot of mistakes, but only because he's human. And your logic that "they only use the dragonballs to fix goku's mistakes" is insanely retarded, because everything that happened was not Goku's doing.

If you want to blame someone, then blame Bulma for making the radar in the first place. This issue was discussed in GT, and i still find it funny that everyone's calling it trash when it addressed the elephant in the room.
And if you actually think that Vegeta is a "hero" then i'm pretty sure you're delusional. Because Vegeta has always been a self centered, arrogant **** from day one. He had the power to destroy Cell and the androids, but chose not to. Simply because he wanted to test his power against them. He LET Cell absorb 18 for fun, and stopped Trunks from trying to end Cell's reign of terror.

He also killed innocents just to get Goku angry enough so he could fight him, and did it not only once, but twice. And he is literally indirectly responsible for the return of Buu. Because if he hadn't forced Goku to fight him, Babadi wouldn't have gotten the energy to revive him. Vegeta is anything but a hero. Far from it. Goku was willing to sacrifice himself against Raditz to protect Gohan, and Cell, to save the world. And he did it without blinking.

Is Goku a hero in Super? Definitely not. His character has completely changed, and he's barely done anything heroic. But saying that everything is Goku's fault is an injustice against him.

 

[Meowazziel]

I think after the cell fight, he would realize not to force kids to fight a dangerous person. Goku lost his senses after overcoming that virus. He only tried to redeem himself by trying to blow up with cell on kai planet to avoid telling Gohan that he is sorry for putting him in that tough spot.

He didnt do it to avoid having to say sorry.
Goku is not a person who has difficulties with saying sorry.

Preparing kids to fight Cell/Buu/other dangerous person is obviously not the way to go if there is an alternative.
What was the alternative back than?

What should have been the way to go?
Reviving Goku with the dragonballs, making him kill Fat Buu in ssj3 mode and preparing Trunks and Goten as the new protectors of the earth afterwards, but not let them fully take that role until they are old enough?

Was reviving Goku/Vegeta an option back than?
I cant remember for sure.

Regarding Goku his change from dragonball z to dragonball super.

I think the dragonball z Goku would probably have listened to Beerus and Whis about not going to Zeno to ask when the tournament is held.
Whereas the dragonball super Goku didnt take them serious enough and went through with going to Zeno anyway.

Do you think so too?

Just listen to yourself. You do know that if he hadn't let Vegeta live, Vegeta wouldn't be on Namek to eventually help Gohan and Krillin survive against Freiza and his army, right? Again, you have it all wrong. Goku COULD NOT beat Cell. He admitted it a number of times that Cell was superior to him. This is shown when even after all that fighting, Cell was holding back against Goku, because when he fought Gohan, he fully powered up.

Goku's main objective in the time chamber was to make Gohan stronger than he was. That was his plan all along.
Now lets move on to the Buu saga. His reasoning was right, because the world relied on him too many times to save them. Against King Piccolo, Against Junior, Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa, Freiza, Cell, and the Androids. Every time there was a problem, Goku always had to be the one to pull through for them. But they were all forgetting one thing, he's not immortal. Eventually, he and Vegeta would die and pass over to the other world. Now who would be the one to save them all?

They had to learn how to fend for themselves without both Goku and Vegeta. It's not like he didn't want to save them against Buu, but it's the fact that he wasn't going to be there forever. And the irony is that the one opportunity he had to come back and relax with his family and friends, which was a single day, was squandered over Babadi and his minions. Even if he did manage to defeat Buu, the one chance that he had to stay was gone.

Which is exactly why he decided to teach Goten and Trunks the fusion technique. Because they were literally the future, they were the upcoming generation of Saiyans, and they needed to get strong.
Now it's no secret that Goku isn't a saint. He's made a lot of mistakes, but only because he's human. And your logic that "they only use the dragonballs to fix goku's mistakes" is insanely retarded, because everything that happened was not Goku's doing.

If you want to blame someone, then blame Bulma for making the radar in the first place. This issue was discussed in GT, and i still find it funny that everyone's calling it trash when it addressed the elephant in the room.
And if you actually think that Vegeta is a "hero" then i'm pretty sure you're delusional. Because Vegeta has always been a self centered, arrogant **** from day one. He had the power to destroy Cell and the androids, but chose not to. Simply because he wanted to test his power against them. He LET Cell absorb 18 for fun, and stopped Trunks from trying to end Cell's reign of terror.

He also killed innocents just to get Goku angry enough so he could fight him, and did it not only once, but twice. And he is literally indirectly responsible for the return of Buu. Because if he hadn't forced Goku to fight him, Babadi wouldn't have gotten the energy to revive him. Vegeta is anything but a hero. Far from it. Goku was willing to sacrifice himself against Raditz to protect Gohan, and Cell, to save the world. And he did it without blinking.

Is Goku a hero in Super? Definitely not. His character has completely changed, and he's barely done anything heroic. But saying that everything is Goku's fault is an injustice against him.

I agree with this reply of yours to Madarauchiwa.
Goku had many heroic actions in dragonball z.
He seems to do him some injustice indeed.

In dragonball super Goku his character seems to move into a different direction.
However I think this is actually an interesting change for Goku as a main character.
It will also be less predictable which actions he will take in the future of the series, compared to always going into somewhat cliche protection hero mode.

I think beerus likes goku.. Literally Goku has done alot of shit and if Zeno was as bad as they say, then beerus really shouldve killed goku.. But I think the bigger problem lies within goku bringing back another zeno for future zeno.. Its like.. two kids who want to play and have all this energy. Sooner or later some shit was gonna stir up..

Either way, I dont think Goku is that dumb about zeno. Like he said, In goku eyes Zeno is a super nice guy.. and I think zeno is nice.. I just think hes gonna add a stipulation.. You lose, you die.. No hard feelings. LOL once the first universe gets erased thats when the turning plot will happen.. Im going TO LOVE this arc, Cause Im sure goku is now going to become a major enemy to aLOT of ppl

In Goku's eyes Zeno is a super nice guy, but at the same time Goku knows about the risks with Zeno.
How he suddenly can erase an entire universe. Goku has seen that for himself when he contacted future Zeno in future Trunks his timeline.
They wanted Zeno to take out Zamasu, but suddenly Zeno erased the universe(s).

Goku has seen the risk and was warned by Beerus and Whis to not ask Zeno atm about the tournament.
Due to the risks.
He should have taken Beerus and Whis more serious and listened to them. Yet he didnt take them serious enough, pressed the button and went to Zeno anyway.

That does show change in Goku's character.
That Goku takes this risk with Zeno, just because of Goku's own selfish desires of wanting to fight in that tournament.
He takes a risk that can affect many people in the universe(s).

That does look selfish dont you think so?
Not very respectful either.

Yeah bringing a second Zeno to this timeline is risky as well.

No other character has made a comment about that either though.
Like for example an angel or kai or so.

 

[Madarauchiwa]

Just listen to yourself. You do know that if he hadn't let Vegeta live, Vegeta wouldn't be on Namek to eventually help Gohan and Krillin survive against Freiza and his army, right? Again, you have it all wrong. Goku COULD NOT beat Cell. He admitted it a number of times that Cell was superior to him. This is shown when even after all that fighting, Cell was holding back against Goku, because when he fought Gohan, he fully powered up.

Goku's main objective in the time chamber was to make Gohan stronger than he was. That was his plan all along.
Now lets move on to the Buu saga. His reasoning was right, because the world relied on him too many times to save them. Against King Piccolo, Against Junior, Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa, Freiza, Cell, and the Androids. Every time there was a problem, Goku always had to be the one to pull through for them. But they were all forgetting one thing, he's not immortal. Eventually, he and Vegeta would die and pass over to the other world. Now who would be the one to save them all?

They had to learn how to fend for themselves without both Goku and Vegeta. It's not like he didn't want to save them against Buu, but it's the fact that he wasn't going to be there forever. And the irony is that the one opportunity he had to come back and relax with his family and friends, which was a single day, was squandered over Babadi and his minions. Even if he did manage to defeat Buu, the one chance that he had to stay was gone.

Which is exactly why he decided to teach Goten and Trunks the fusion technique. Because they were literally the future, they were the upcoming generation of Saiyans, and they needed to get strong.
Now it's no secret that Goku isn't a saint. He's made a lot of mistakes, but only because he's human. And your logic that "they only use the dragonballs to fix goku's mistakes" is insanely retarded, because everything that happened was not Goku's doing.

If you want to blame someone, then blame Bulma for making the radar in the first place. This issue was discussed in GT, and i still find it funny that everyone's calling it trash when it addressed the elephant in the room.
And if you actually think that Vegeta is a "hero" then i'm pretty sure you're delusional. Because Vegeta has always been a self centered, arrogant **** from day one. He had the power to destroy Cell and the androids, but chose not to. Simply because he wanted to test his power against them. He LET Cell absorb 18 for fun, and stopped Trunks from trying to end Cell's reign of terror.

He also killed innocents just to get Goku angry enough so he could fight him, and did it not only once, but twice. And he is literally indirectly responsible for the return of Buu. Because if he hadn't forced Goku to fight him, Babadi wouldn't have gotten the energy to revive him. Vegeta is anything but a hero. Far from it. Goku was willing to sacrifice himself against Raditz to protect Gohan, and Cell, to save the world. And he did it without blinking.

Is Goku a hero in Super? Definitely not. His character has completely changed, and he's barely done anything heroic. But saying that everything is Goku's fault is an injustice against him.

.goku couldn't have known and didn't know vegeta would be good. he did it simply cause he wanted to fight again. his words not mine

he puts his son through hell to gain powers for a single day because he completely stops training after and goku is still needed.

raditz was superior to goku yet he fought on and won like a saiyan. vegeta was superior but he fought till the end. frieza was superior yet he fought to the end and then now you wanna tell me that because cell cell "superior" goku had resigned to let gohan handle it because he didn't wanna be needed? and then he still comes back to boost gohans kamehameha thus proving his experiment was a waste of time and cell could only have been beaten by goku

even if i accepted that it was all a larger plot to train up a new hero and that again he allowed fat buu to go because in that state he was still "defeatable" which he obviously wasn't than why didn't he come back earlier to stop super buu? why did every other hero have to fall before goku decided his godlyness should come out and fight?

and actually everything earth shattering thats happened has been gokus fault. the saying came to earth looking for him. frieza went to namek to look for the dragon balls because goku mentioned them and it got caught on scouter cam. cell was made powerful because of the saiyan cells and other crap gero got from gokus exploits.

only arc you cant blame on gokus existence is buu arc.

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

Sasuke solos.

 

[Meowazziel]

Goku wanted to get stronger and stronger and fight strong opponents by asking Zeno for the tournament to start
and he didnt listen to the warnings given by Beerus and Whis.

With episode 78, it seems Goku starts to realise a bit more that his selfish actions are risky and can bring harm to others (the losing universes destroyed). Will Goku go a bit more in the hero type direction?
When still looking at how carefree he is, one can wonder if its getting through to him enough.

Although there is still hope. Not all is lost. If the person who gets crowned to best warrior, uses the super dragonballs to wish all the universes back.

However its at least theoretically possible that the person who gets crowned to best warrior will not use the super dragonballs that way.
For example if that warrior's universe does not get destroyed and if that warrior doesnt care about the other universes.

It may be too predictable if Goku will be crowned to best warrior of the tournament.
As he will likely wish back the other universes.
It will be less exiting to watch the tournament if the danger of universes being erased, will be fixed so predictably. As readers wont really be in supsense, regarding that element of the tournament.

It would be more interesting if someone else is crowned to best warrior and that the readers are more in suspense what that person will wish for.
That the best warrior will not wish back the other universes and that there is some other way to save the universes or that something happens that we dont expect.

Or even something like Goku being crowned to best warrior, but using his wish differently than we expect. For example something like not wishing back the other universes, yet still finding a method to save everyone.

 

[Shiroyasha]

.goku couldn't have known and didn't know vegeta would be good. he did it simply cause he wanted to fight again. his words not mine

he puts his son through hell to gain powers for a single day because he completely stops training after and goku is still needed.

raditz was superior to goku yet he fought on and won like a saiyan. vegeta was superior but he fought till the end. frieza was superior yet he fought to the end and then now you wanna tell me that because cell cell "superior" goku had resigned to let gohan handle it because he didn't wanna be needed? and then he still comes back to boost gohans kamehameha thus proving his experiment was a waste of time and cell could only have been beaten by goku

even if i accepted that it was all a larger plot to train up a new hero and that again he allowed fat buu to go because in that state he was still "defeatable" which he obviously wasn't than why didn't he come back earlier to stop super buu? why did every other hero have to fall before goku decided his godlyness should come out and fight?

and actually everything earth shattering thats happened has been gokus fault. the saying came to earth looking for him. frieza went to namek to look for the dragon balls because goku mentioned them and it got caught on scouter cam. cell was made powerful because of the saiyan cells and other crap gero got from gokus exploits.

only arc you cant blame on gokus existence is buu arc.

It looks like we're still doing this dance. Goku didn't let Vegeta live simply because he wanted to fight him again. He let him live because they were the last of the pure blooded Saiyans. He didn't want to kill him because there wasn't a need to. It's exactly like what he did with Piccolo. Sigh.. I Love it when you fabricate events that didn't even happen. Goku didn't "put his son through hell for a single day because he completely stops training after and Goku is still needed".

He trained Gohan because they needed every chance that they could get against Cell and the androids. Heck, Gohan even forced Goku to make him into a Super Saiyan. Because he realized that at every major battle that they had faced, he was completely useless. He needed to get stronger in order to make a difference.

Again, you're missing the point. For the first time, Goku was completely outmatched. Cell was simply that strong. You're acting like Goku didn't even try against Cell, when he himself said that he gave it everything he had. And if you would stop being so delusional, Goku didn't "win" against Raditz or Vegeta. He barely managed to beat Raditz with the help of Piccolo, and ended up forfeiting his life. While against Vegeta, he was done the moment he used Kaioken x4.

Both battles weren't victories, as there were causalities at the end of the day. He didn't "let" Gohan handle Cell. He had no other choice, because Gohan was the only one strong enough to defeat Cell.

Your arguments are really baseless and aren't backed up by any facts. Like i said, Goku isn't a saint. He's a made a ton of mistakes, but you're acting like everything evil that exists is his fault. To summarize my counters against your "arguments": Cell was stronger than Goku, he knew that from the very beginning which is why he was focused on making Gohan stronger than he was, because he knew that Gohan had the hidden potential to do so.

Goku was NOT the one that mentioned the dragon balls. After he died, Piccolo was talking to Raditz who was on the brink of death, and told him that Goku would probably be back in a week as Bulma and the gang would simply use the dragon balls to revive him. Which is what caused Vegeta and Nappa to journey to earth.

Freiza did NOT catch wind of the dragon balls from Goku. When Vegeta was explaining to Piccolo and Nappa how he heard that there were dragon balls on Namek, Freiza was listening to their conversation. Which is why he immediately set course for the planet after he heard of the legend.

Get your facts right.