[Question] Is Fuuton the Best Combat Element?

[Infant]

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Now of course we can't act like manga showings are all there is. This is simply because the manga focusses on the story of particular characters instead of being some documentary that attempts to expose everything in equal measure. So some things will have gotten better exposure than others. This means we have to rely more on universal principles as opposed to what was shown.

Another factor is that of special cases, like the black flames, which means that we have to consider levels of quality and account for that. Its somewhat like comparing the wealth of a modern person against someone from the last century using one currency. Of course the modern person will have more in their bank account because of inflation, so we account for that to conclude that numbers only apply in context. Likewise here, we must consider that cases such as the black flames are special cases connected to factors that other elements will not have had access to, factors that have nothing to do with the element of katon by itself. So we must look less at what was done and more at what the elements promise on their own because what is done depends largely on the characters. A master with a stick will beat a novice with a sword, but that doesn't mean that a stick is superior to a sword.

So with those two issues in mind, is Fuuton the best battle element?

From what I can think of:
- good area control
- good range
- cheap (based on wind being spacey)
- lacks potency (like, it usually just pushes around and doesn't k.o. on its own)
- supports almost every other element
- weaker than almost every other element (water is heavier, earth is denser, fire counters it)

Oh, one last thing: EXCLUDING KEKKEI GENKAI!!!

What say you?

Post automatically merged: May 4, 2020

I suppose Kakuzu offers a perfect ruler by which to measure the elements against each other.

 

[Im_not_Osama_bin_laden]

Hmmmm. I think with Fuuton you can get more clean cuts and not necessarily be the most destructive. Of what I remember the only forbidden Jutsu that uses only one element is Fuuton: Rasenshuriken.

 

[Infant]

Hmmmm. I think with Fuuton you can get more clean cuts and not necessarily be the most destructive. Of what I remember the only forbidden Jutsu that uses only one element is Fuuton: Rasenshuriken.

Ironically, it looks very rough edged when Asuma demonstrates to Naruto.

Well, it's not like the others can even cut in the first place

 

[Kakooli]

by manga feats lakookie say raiton for this reasons.......

1. powerful offensively...
2. most useful defensively (lightning armor)
3. s rank jutsu like kirin that dont need chakras and can be used at long range....plus speed that reach a ground in 1/1000 of a second...
4. very versatile for all reasons mentioned above plus shidori example which show it can be streamed through sword and have sss class piercing powers (slicing juubi madara in half from distance etc.......)

 

[Infant]

by manga feats lakookie say raiton for this reasons.......

1. powerful offensively...
2. most useful defensively (lightning armor)
3. s rank jutsu like kirin that dont need chakras and can be used at long range....plus speed that reach a ground in 1/1000 of a second...
4. very versatile for all reasons mentioned above plus shidori example which show it can be streamed through sword and have sss class piercing powers (slicing juubi madara in half from distance etc.......)

Another factor is that of special cases, like the black flames, which means that we have to consider levels of quality and account for that. Its somewhat like comparing the wealth of a modern person against someone from the last century using one currency. Of course the modern person will have more in their bank account because of inflation, so we account for that to conclude that numbers only apply in context. Likewise here, we must consider that cases such as the black flames are special cases connected to factors that other elements will not have had access to, factors that have nothing to do with the element of katon by itself. So we must look less at what was done and more at what the elements promise on their own because what is done depends largely on the characters. A master with a stick will beat a novice with a sword, but that doesn't mean that a stick is superior to a sword.

Post automatically merged: May 4, 2020

What?

Your examples all follow special characters, not what raiton provides that other elements cannot match.

Like, in Boruto we saw a guy use wind armour to deflect all attacks. So its unfair to only look at what was done instead of what can be done

 

[SSStylish]

I was only 9 years old. I loved Itachi so much. I had all the movies and merchandise. I prayed to Itachi every night before bed, thanking him for the life I was given. Itachi is love I say. Itachi is life. My dad hears me and calls me a "Itachitard". I knew he was just jealous of my devotion for Itachi. I call him a cunt. He slaps me an sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now and my face hurts. I lay in bed and it's really cold. A warmth is moving towards me. I feel something touch me. It's Itachi! I'm so happy! He whispers in my ear "Totsuka, Yata, GG". He pulls out a kunai and cuts a hole in the back of my pants. I'm ready. I spread my asscheeks for Itachi. He penetrates my butthole. It hurts so much, but I do it for the solo god. I can feel my ass tearing as my eyes start to water. I push against his force. I want to please Itachi. Chakra emerges from Itachi as he roars a mighty roar. He fills my butt with his love. My dad walks in. Itachi looks him straight in the eye and says "I'm the true hokage". Itachi is love. Itachi is life.

 

[Im_not_Osama_bin_laden]

I was only 9 years old. I loved Itachi so much. I had all the movies and merchandise. I prayed to Itachi every night before bed, thanking him for the life I was given. Itachi is love I say. Itachi is life. My dad hears me and calls me a "Itachitard". I knew he was just jealous of my devotion for Itachi. I call him a cunt. He slaps me an sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now and my face hurts. I lay in bed and it's really cold. A warmth is moving towards me. I feel something touch me. It's Itachi! I'm so happy! He whispers in my ear "Totsuka, Yata, GG". He pulls out a kunai and cuts a hole in the back of my pants. I'm ready. I spread my asscheeks for Itachi. He penetrates my butthole. It hurts so much, but I do it for the solo god. I can feel my ass tearing as my eyes start to water. I push against his force. I want to please Itachi. Chakra emerges from Itachi as he roars a mighty roar. He fills my butt with his love. My dad walks in. Itachi looks him straight in the eye and says "I'm the true hokage". Itachi is love. Itachi is life.

Itachi is the weakest Akatsuki.

 

[Infant]

I was only 9 years old. I loved Itachi so much. I had all the movies and merchandise. I prayed to Itachi every night before bed, thanking him for the life I was given. Itachi is love I say. Itachi is life. My dad hears me and calls me a "Itachitard". I knew he was just jealous of my devotion for Itachi. I call him a cunt. He slaps me an sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now and my face hurts. I lay in bed and it's really cold. A warmth is moving towards me. I feel something touch me. It's Itachi! I'm so happy! He whispers in my ear "Totsuka, Yata, GG". He pulls out a kunai and cuts a hole in the back of my pants. I'm ready. I spread my asscheeks for Itachi. He penetrates my butthole. It hurts so much, but I do it for the solo god. I can feel my ass tearing as my eyes start to water. I push against his force. I want to please Itachi. Chakra emerges from Itachi as he roars a mighty roar. He fills my butt with his love. My dad walks in. Itachi looks him straight in the eye and says "I'm the true hokage". Itachi is love. Itachi is life.

Why . . .

Just, why?

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Lightening Release seems to be the most costly because it's always dissipating, and that requires the user to constantly pump chakra into it. Water generally requires you to be near water, and those that can summon it probably suffer the biggest toll out of any of the affinities(In part 1, Edo Tobirama was

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). Earth likely has the lowest overhead cost to use at a decent level because they're not required to actually spawn anything. It's like how Sasuke was able to use Kirin with basically no chakra because the lightening is natural.

So to recap, I think that:

1. Lightening is generally the most costly
2. Water is the most situational and, once the user can actually summon it, probably more costly than lightening to use at a high level
3. Earth is the cheapest to use by far, which theoretically should mean that higher usage of it should have absurd destructive power like moving literal mountains.

I think wind's cost is higher than earth's, but lower than fire's cost which itself is lower than lightening's.
The perks I see in wind is that its high level usage is probably absurd. With fire, lightening, and earth, you're constantly trying to pump chakra into the affinities to make their jutsus larger, denser, or harder, but such concerns matter less to wind. With wind, you're just trying to make it faster so it can have that much more force and slice that much better. I doubt increasing its speed/force is chakra intensive so much as it is skill intensive. Even a spec of blown wind can pierce the heart and that practically costs nothing. Potency is off the charts, and they'll have the chakra to perform theoretically absurd jutsu to anyone in their 360° in their vicinity. Imagine outbursts of wind literally leaving holes in every square milimeter of your body.

I consider fire style to be a wildcard, because it does have hax like Kashin's Samadhi or Itachi's flaming shuriken. Generally seems to be on the weaker end though.

From this, my battle power ranking for the average(aka scrub) ninja would be:

Wind
Earth(bottom if nowhere near earth, but how often is that)
Lightening
Fire(average ninja only ever seem to know sluggish fireball jutsus which practically never make contact)
Water(top if near water)

Keep in mind that I'm assuming their physical capabilities are as lackluster as their chakra pools, so Chidori can't be used effectively. I'm not even sure what the basic lightening jutsu is tbh. There's earth wall for earth users, simple gusts of air for wind users, currents for water, and fireball jutsu for fire, but lightening??? It's a question mark.

High level(Madara/Hashirama tier) ranking based on lethality & defensive potential alone(not getting into utility stuff such as lightening armor or What's His Face's unbreakable doton):

Earth
Water(?)
This is because of how drastically these two are capable of warping the field and, consequently, ensnaring their enemies or providing absurd cover for themselves.
Lightening next(top if in Close combat)
Then Wind(top under lightening if close combat. Lightening essentially does the same thing- piercing-, but comes with the perks of stunning/immobilizing enemies and naturally being fast. Perhaps wind is hax enough to deserve top? Its AoE capabilities means it has nigh zero odds of failure and its offensive nature means little can actually defend against it)
Lastly Fire because I can only imagine a sea of fire bypassing sparsely spread lightening lightening opposed to an earthen/water/wind wall.

I guess Fire would also bypass the wind wall based on element advantage, but that makes it middlepack at best. Fire is generally the easiest to defend against I think.

I wrote too much, read under the big words for TLDR.

 

[Infant]

I wrote too much, read under the big words for TLDR.

If we take brilliance and discourage it, do we not compell our own ruination?

Although this

What's His Face's

. . Was probably unnecessary!

Otherwise . . .

Water generally requires you to be near water,

While it is true that characters like Kisame are an immense anomaly, even scrubs can do hax but cheap techniques like Hidden Mist.

I think Water thus offers the most utility, which is perhaps fitting because water represents balance (being neither stuck here nor there), the capability of grasping both sides (defense of earth in Water Prison, offense of wind in Water Vortex).

Earth is the cheapest to use by far

On locations like Island Turtle, ocplace s and bridges, the caster has to bring their own earth. On the other hand, wind is literally always there, and if not can be created even with a flap of the hands. Its why we see the Suna folk use fans.

This also translates well in speed, because we saw both Baki and the Fan Squad create wind without using hand seals.

So even in a place with lots of ground, earth should only be slightly cheaper than wind, on top of which it'll still require hand signs to use. To close it off, it should be costlier to move something dense and heavy.

Even a spec of blown wind can pierce the heart

Water Bullet, Magnetic Sand (but its a Kekkei Genkai) can be used to the same effect, although their penetration depends more on their own structural rigidity and weight, as opposed to movement pattern. Wind still gets ahead because it can be easier maneouvred around obstacles.

But I also see no reason why any single pebble can't be launched similar to a Water Bullet.

here's earth wall for earth users, simple gusts of air for wind users, currents for water, and fireball jutsu for fire, but lightening??? It's a question mark.

Since we are explicitly told that lightning is the most intensive (so logically, the most costly to bring out in good quantity), I figure its what those Kumo guys do with weapon streaming.

The Flash Pillar was also implied to be pretty common, but then again Kumo does specialise in Lightning.

Lastly Fire because I can only imagine a sea of fire bypassing sparsely spread lightening lightening opposed to an earthen/water/wind wall.

Well, perhaps it can get some environmental assistance in forests and such, if the caster simply sets trees on fire.

They'll soon have waves of natural fire to manipulate at almost no cost?

too much

Nah, it was great

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

If we take brilliance and discourage it, do we not compell our own ruination?

Although this

. . Was probably unnecessary!

Otherwise . . .


While it is true that characters like Kisame are an immense anomaly, even scrubs can do hax but cheap techniques like Hidden Mist.

I think Water thus offers the most utility, which is perhaps fitting because water represents balance (being neither stuck here nor there), the capability of grasping both sides (defense of earth in Water Prison, offense of wind in Water Vortex).


On locations like Island Turtle, ocplace s and bridges, the caster has to bring their own earth. On the other hand, wind is literally always there, and if not can be created even with a flap of the hands. Its why we see the Suna folk use fans.

This also translates well in speed, because we saw both Baki and the Fan Squad create wind without using hand seals.

So even in a place with lots of ground, earth should only be slightly cheaper than wind, on top of which it'll still require hand signs to use. To close it off, it should be costlier to move something dense and heavy.



Water Bullet, Magnetic Sand (but its a Kekkei Genkai) can be used to the same effect, although their penetration depends more on their own structural rigidity and weight, as opposed to movement pattern. Wind still gets ahead because it can be easier maneouvred around obstacles.

But I also see no reason why any single pebble can't be launched similar to a Water Bullet.



Since we are explicitly told that lightning is the most intensive (so logically, the most costly to bring out in good quantity), I figure its what those Kumo guys do with weapon streaming.

The Flash Pillar was also implied to be pretty common, but then again Kumo does specialise in Lightning.



Well, perhaps it can get some environmental assistance in forests and such, if the caster simply sets trees on fire.

They'll soon have waves of natural fire to manipulate at almost no cost?



Nah, it was great

I have no disagreements except for water having the highest utility. Wind release can also clog a person's vision. Admittedly, the it probably won't impair the enemies ability to detect chakra even half as well as mist. I think wind still comes out of top though because it also has the bonus of enhancing the users' physical capabilities(like propelling them) on top of it, whereas I doubt water release can do that unless you destroy all restrictions and go Black Clover style to give them something insane like this:

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Should be possible for water style users to do that, and, assuming you agree they can, I agree they have the most utility. Water style is probably the best possible imitation of chakra modes because the fluidity AND solidity of it. Could probably imitate Naruto's chakra mode's hands, defensive capabilties, and more(such as punching them could lead to your hand getting stuck in the armor). The usage of such abilities would probably be super low too because they're just maintaining, moving, and condensing what is already there. Water release users(even ones with small chakra pools like Part 1 Kakashi) are capable of moving whole lakes(?), so modifying body armor would be nothing.

 

[Infant]

I have no disagreements except for water having the highest utility. Wind release can also clog a person's vision. Admittedly, the it probably won't impair the enemies ability to detect chakra even half as well as mist. I think wind still comes out of top though because it also has the bonus of enhancing the users' physical capabilities(like propelling them) on top of it, whereas I doubt water release can do that unless you destroy all restrictions and go Black Clover style to give them something insane like this:

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Should be possible for water style users to do that, and, assuming you agree they can, I agree they have the most utility. Water style is probably the best possible imitation of chakra modes because the fluidity AND solidity of it. Could probably imitate Naruto's chakra mode's hands, defensive capabilties, and more(such as punching them could lead to your hand getting stuck in the armor). The usage of such abilities would probably be super low too because they're just maintaining, moving, and condensing what is already there. Water release users(even ones with small chakra pools like Part 1 Kakashi) are capable of moving whole lakes(?), so modifying body armor would be nothing.

I definitely agree they can do that, its why I made a note about the manga focusing only on specific characters and all that.

I really see no reason why (besides concentration) borderline elites can't do things like that.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I feel like lightning is better combat wise since it has more energy/heat packed into it. Wind is more versatile in the sense that you can manipulate it's shape more.

 

[Infant]

I feel like lightning is better combat wise since it has more energy/heat packed into it. Wind is more versatile in the sense that you can manipulate it's shape more.

At scale, sure.

The problem is that it's difficult to bring that intensity simiar to how doton can't be used to smash meteors like suiton can.