Information Concerning Hashirama death during First Shinobi war and Tobirama

[Mellanoma]

After a Discussion in another thread concerning Hashirama and Tobirama deaths in battle.

I'd like to try and figure out what happened to Hashirama as I find it strange that he ultimately "Died in battle". To me I believe its simply plot but I will try and make sense of it with logic and facts.

What we know:

1) Both Hashirama and Tobirama died during the First Shinobi Great war.

2) Tobirama died to Kinkaku(Gin and Kin +18 other shinobi) Force of Cloud.

3) At the time Gin and Kin were both Pseudo-Jins due to their attempt to steal the nine tails BEFORE the First Shinobi
Great war.

4) Hashirama controlled 8 of the tailed beast during this era until he finally split them during the first Kage Summit of
the First Shinobi great war.

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5) Sand Village caught their own tailed beast and wanted Money from Konoha instead of more tailed beast.

6) During the structuring of the one village per country era. Hashirama and Tobirama both fought countless clans and
enemies along side Madara and the Uchihas to force clans to either accept their way or be wiped out.

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7) Madara revolted due to Black Zetsu's plan.

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8) Madara destroyed relations between the countries before the first shinobi great war.

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With the information provided above:

Here is what I believe lead to Hashirama and Tobirama's death during the First Shinobi great war.

1) Shortly after splitting the tailed beast and leaving the Summit. Hashirama and Tobirama with their squads were both ambushed by multiple or many different powerful shinobi and or kage.

2) Hashirama sacrifices himself to allow Tobirama to escape naming him hokage

3) Tobirama sacrifices himself to allow Danzo, Hiruzen and Kagami to escape.


This is plausible


This would indicate Tobirama's reign as 2nd hokage was literally VERY Short but when you look at the time line there is only a two year difference between Hashirama becoming hokage and Hiruzen becoming hokage with Hashirama consuming a large majority of that time line.

Since we don't have much history on the 1st era kages we don't fully know what happened but we can all agree that. 1st Raikage, 1st Tsuchikage and 1st Mizukage were all hostile towards Hashirama. Based on the history of the 2nd era kages of those villages.


Thoughts?

PS: This isn't exact as the Time line / Plot is VERY inconsistent during this era.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

I like your theory more than "He died from healing himself too much" LMAO his vitality and healing ability wouldn't have been known as remarkable and extraordinary if they had such a side effect.

I wouldn't mind if Hashirama died from an ambush, as long as the shinobi who attacked him were each Akatsuki level or above. Unlike his brother, Hashirama would've neg diffed Ginkaku, Kinkaku, and 18 jonins.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Lmao, you gave hashirama such a glorious death, though he could've died in a pitiful way by getting killed by some fodder.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

I like your theory more than "He died from healing himself too much" LMAO his vitality and healing ability wouldn't have been known as remarkable and extraordinary if they had such a side effect.

I wouldn't mind if Hashirama died from an ambush, as long as the shinobi who attacked him were each Akatsuki level or above. Unlike his brother, Hashirama would've neg diffed Ginkaku, Kinkaku, and 18 jonins.

You are underestimating Tobirama. Hashirama wouldve earned the same fate. Tailed beasts are stronger when they are inside a jinchuuriki and this time you got two of them, together with a bunch of broken sage weapons which can seal people through words and immense durability and stamina to wield those weapons along with 18 jounins backing thier ass up. Even for hashirama its too much.

 

[Mellanoma]

Lmao, you gave hashirama such a glorious death, though he could've died in a pitiful way by getting killed by some fodder.

You are underestimating Tobirama. Hashirama wouldve earned the same fate. Tailed beasts are stronger when they are inside a jinchuuriki and this time you got two of them, together with a bunch of broken sage weapons which can seal people through words and immense durability and stamina to wield those weapons along with 18 jounins backing thier up. Even for hashirama its too much.

lol just stop posting please. CLEARLY you are delusional

I like your theory more than "He died from healing himself too much" LMAO his vitality and healing ability wouldn't have been known as remarkable and extraordinary if they had such a side effect.

I wouldn't mind if Hashirama died from an ambush, as long as the shinobi who attacked him were each Akatsuki level or above. Unlike his brother, Hashirama would've neg diffed Ginkaku, Kinkaku, and 18 jonins.

Since there is literally NO history from first era Kage we would never know what happened. Can only assume they were involved in Hashirama's death a long with other shinobi and kage.

 

[SenseiSama]

Imo his overuse of Mokuton led to his body running out of vital energy, his KKG was originally used by the Juubi so you can imagine the amount of Yang it required to use on a constant basis, especially with SM.


He was also known to rely on his healing, we saw with Tsunade that healing too much can consume life energy, finally he didn't have the advantage of Uzumaki DNA and Kurama juice even though he was an incarnate, overall he was still prone to overusing his Yang for the feats he wielded because Mokuton is originally a Juubi tier feat.


P.S : another argument could be he sustained permanent wounds from his fight with Madara, they were equal in every way so if Madara was permanently wounded Hashirama should have also been as well.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Hahsirama never controlled 8 of the tailed beasts.
And it's never been stated that Kin and Gin were involved in Tobirama's death, I may have missed something so do show is if you have anything on it.

Thanks.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

lol just stop posting please. CLEARLY you are delusional

Why so serious though? I'll admit I was joking back there. Anyways, you agree kinkaku and ginkaku and the squad can kill him in a real fight? Or you are the only one delusional here. Even Darui and the entire division including Shika-Ino-Cho combination couldnt do jack against these Two, let alone the 18 jounins probably akatsuki level or kakashi level at minimum. How were they defeated? Yup with thier own weapons and Kohaku No Johei, another sacred weapon. How will someone like Hashirama possibly win? By your statement, I hope you didnt mean hashirama shatters kinkalu force. As Ive said bijuus are more powerful when inside a jinchuuriki and when the said jinchuuriki uses its power. Hence why Deidara could easily solo third tail, yet had immense difficulty with one tail, despite gaara not even capable of controlling one tail properly.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

Imo his overuse of Mokuton led to his body running out of vital energy, his KKG was originally used by the Juubi so you can imagine the amount of Yang it required to use on a constant basis, especially with SM.


He was also known to rely on his healing, we saw with Tsunade that healing too much can consume life energy, finally he didn't have the advantage of Uzumaki DNA and Kurama juice even though he was an incarnate, overall he was still prone to overusing his Yang for the feats he wielded because Mokuton is originally a Juubi tier feat.


P.S : another argument could be he sustained permanent wounds from his fight with Madara, they were equal in every way so if Madara was permanently wounded Hashirama should have also been as well.

HAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHA I swear someone first came up with this theory and the rest of you just decided to run with it. This is my least favorite Naruto theory of all time. Such a baseless theory. Kishi NEVER EVER NOT EVEN ONCE implied that Hashi died from overuse of Mokuton or healing.

I don’t mean to be an a$$. It’s not personal. I’m just so sick of seeing this nonsense.

 

[Draekon]

he died while being ambushed on the toilet. it's the only possible conclusion

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[Mellanoma]

Why so serious though? I'll admit I was joking back there. Anyways, you agree kinkaku and ginkaku and the squad can kill him in a real fight? Or you are the only one delusional here. Even Darui and the entire division including Shika-Ino-Cho combination couldnt do jack against these Two, let alone the 18 jounins probably akatsuki level or kakashi level at minimum. How were they defeated? Yup with thier own weapons and Kohaku No Johei, another sacred weapon. How will someone like Hashirama possibly win? By your statement, I hope you didnt mean hashirama shatters kinkalu force. As Ive said bijuus are more powerful when inside a jinchuuriki and when the said jinchuuriki uses its power. Hence why Deidara could easily solo third tail, yet had immense difficulty with one tail, despite gaara not even capable of controlling one tail properly.

They are Pseudo jins. AT best they could go into red cloak mode which Hashirama stomps 0 difficulty. This was already illustrated in the manga. The Cloak level they achieve was irrelevant by EARLY part 2 in terms of power.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

They are Pseudo jins. AT best they could go into red cloak mode which Hashirama stomps 0 difficulty. This was already illustrated in the manga. The Cloak level they achieve was irrelevant by EARLY part 2 in terms of power.

The difference is they had full power over thier cloaks. So no mindless rampage. Almost infinite stamina and sage weapons combined? Which can seal someone with voice and word? You gotta be kidding me. Tell me what hashirama will do. Bare nine tails is weak, it was oneshotted by enma outta the village. While kusanagi had trouble with 4 tailed cloak despite bruising the same enma. So its pretty much proven a bare kurama is a mindless creature which is as powerful as Isobu who got one-shotted by deidara. Hashirama is not getting away from the weapons trick which will activate even if you dont say the word, so no.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

lol just stop posting please. CLEARLY you are delusional




Since there is literally NO history from first era Kage we would never know what happened. Can only assume they were involved in Hashirama's death a long with other shinobi and kage.

No actually Tyrance sasuke is right at least when it comes to the second hokage .

Even though he's usually wrong on everything else not joke on on the everything else

 

[Mellanoma]

No actually Tyrance sasuke is right at least when it comes to the second hokage .

Even though he's usually wrong on everything else not joke on on the everything else

I said he was delusional when he stated Jin and Gin as pseduo jins EASILY beat Hashirama

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

His fans will never except his death and will go in pure denial of too much vitality use or healing himself too much. That’s the most desperate crap I’ve ever read on this base and these people keep rehearsing his hype far worse than the Hiruzen lovers.

1. Died to an unknown fodder in the first war or possibly even ginkaku and kinakau themselves.

2. Tobirama died to 20 bounty hunters, ginkaku and kinakau has nothing to do with it.

3. Hashirama only had 7 bijus not 8

 

[Mellanoma]

1. Died to an unknown fodder in the first war or possibly even ginkaku and kinakau themselves.

2. Tobirama died to 20 bounty hunters, ginkaku and kinakau has nothing to do with it.

3. Hashirama only had 7 bijus not 8

1) I doubt it.. As we know nothing about the 1st era Kage except that their abilities were passed down to the 2nd and 3rd kages.

2) This stims from the fact that the gin and kin bros staged a coup that almost killed him. Then he ultimately died to the kinkaku force.

3) Aside from the One tail. What other tail did he not have?


From what I'm stating in OP. I believe hashirama died shortly BEFORE tobirama maybe even the same day based on the very limited information we have. The 2nd's policies were implemented while Hashirama was kage.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

1) I doubt it.. As we know nothing about the 1st era Kage except that their abilities were passed down to the 2nd and 3rd kages.

2) This stims from the fact that the gin and kin bros staged a coup that almost killed him. Then he ultimately died to the kinkaku force.

3) Aside from the One tail. What other tail did he not have?


From what I'm stating in OP. I believe hashirama died shortly BEFORE tobirama maybe even the same day based on the very limited information we have. The 2nd's policies were implemented while Hashirama was kage.

Tell me what hashirama can do against those weapons which soloed that division. They could tanl black lightning, which is Top 2 strongest Raiton techniques, which the 3rd raikage passed onto him.

 

[Mellanoma]

Tell me what hashirama can do against those weapons which soloed that division. They could tanl black lightning, which is Top 2 strongest Raiton techniques, which the 3rd raikage passed onto him.

They were edo. Ofcourse they could tank it...

Im not going to argue Hashirama vs Gold and Silver Brothers. Make a thread in vs section and get trolled out. Ultimately they were beaten by Darui who is LEAGUEs below Hashirama.

 

[salamander uchiha]

His fans will never except his death and will go in pure denial of too much vitality use or healing himself too much. That’s the most desperate crap I’ve ever read on this base and these people keep rehearsing his hype far worse than the Hiruzen lovers.

1. Died to an unknown fodder in the first war or possibly even ginkaku and kinakau themselves.

2. Tobirama died to 20 bounty hunters, ginkaku and kinakau has nothing to do with it.

3. Hashirama only had 7 bijus not 8

Agreed ,but Hashirama having 7 tailed beasts really? Do we have a canon source for this?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

1) I doubt it.. As we know nothing about the 1st era Kage except that their abilities were passed down to the 2nd and 3rd kages.

2) This stims from the fact that the gin and kin bros staged a coup that almost killed him. Then he ultimately died to the kinkaku force.

3) Aside from the One tail. What other tail did he not have?


From what I'm stating in OP. I believe hashirama died shortly BEFORE tobirama maybe even the same day based on the very limited information we have. The 2nd's policies were implemented while Hashirama was kage.

1. Said he was killed in war, not that he died due to vitality deprivation. So pick your poison here. The fact that he is still human means that he still can be killed regardless of which fodder or Hashirama’s hype. It happens.

2. Ginkaku and kinakau fought both Tobirama and 2nd A nearly taking their lives in during the coup. But in this case it was an all out war with konoha forces and kumo nowhere to be seen. So you’re talking about two seperate events here during the war.

3. 1 tails was with Suna and 9tails was still out in the wild. Ginkaku and Kinkakau fought it before Madara got a hold of it according to Ay. That means kurama never met Hashirama until after his fight with Madara. And the creation of konoha was already established before the VoTe battle, even the conference.