[Discussion] I'm not so sure but...

[Mr Hiru]

...weren't Madara and Izuna the first Uchiha to awake the Mangekyou Sharingan?

If this is the case, how could Madara know about Izanami? I have been looking in the base, a lot of people seems to assume that Madara knew about this legendary genjutsu.

But if logic serves me right, Madara/Izuna being the first Uchiha to awake these genjutsu and the only ones in their era would imply that they never knew about Izanami or even Izanagi, because both of them had their respective eyes healthy in the moment of their deaths (since Izanami/Izanagi sacrificed the eye of the wearer).

The only way for Madara to know about such genjutsu would be using a spare pair, but then again, he only had one eye before his death, he would have to have Senju DNA to recover the light of his eye. Why would he only have one eye, with the existence of the Senju DNA properties?

Something doesn't seems right... it's like they never used Izanagi/Izanami.

 

[Shinichi Izumi]

Who said you need the mangekyou for izanami/izanagi?

 

[Wolfus]

Neither izanagi nor izanami requires MS?. As seen with danzou and by itachi's explanations, both techs can be used by a uchiha who doesn't have the MS, but has a 3 tomoe.
Madara and izuna were the first to awake the MS, but not the first to awake regular sharingan. So other uchihas could've used izanami and izanagi back in madara's time.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Who said you need the mangekyou for izanami/izanagi?

Every shinobi I have seen have activating these techniques were porters of the Mangekyou.

 

[the last uchiha]

watch the kabuto battle arc, itachi explains about previous uchihas before madara or during the same era with. ms it was ems that mddy was the first you only need regular ms to use inzanagi inzanami

 

[-immortal-]

Every shinobi I have seen have activating these techniques were porters of the Mangekyou.

Danzo was a 3tomoe noob

 

[Everztar]

you've been putting too much attention to the Anime where the random uchihas in the "izanami and izanagi" episode had MS... which is not canon!

you're missing out man... and Danzo didn't have 10 MS in his arm... therefore you don't need MS to use Izanagi or Izanami

 

[Mr Hiru]

you're missing out man... Danzo didn't have 10 MS in his arm... therefore you don't need MS to use Izanagi or Izanami

People is forgetting that he had Shisui's MS :S

 

[Uchiha Samater]

When itachi mentioned izanami ?, he said it was used as a punishment for those who used izanagi for whatever wrong reason

Which implies that it was used (izanami and izanai many times)

So unless many many uchiha awakened the MS , which I doubt , it is not a technique limited to the MS

Also Danzo , used multiple regular sharingan alongside Senju DNA for izanagi so that is proof

The proof lies in the eye used for izanagi is sacrificed , shishuis eye was recovering and was not used , otherwise it opens the idea that it can be spammed

 

[omarsen]

using Izanagi/Izanami require Senju+Uchiha thats all.

 

[Everztar]

People is forgetting that he had Shisui's MS :S

yes but you sacrifice the eye you chose to cast izanagi with... and Danzo didn't cast Izanagi with the MS... only 3 tomoe sharingans were used!

 

[Mr Hiru]

When itachi mentioned izanami ?, he said it was used as a punishment for those who used izanagi for whatever wrong reason

Which implies that it was used (izanami and izanai many times)

So unless many many uchiha awakened the MS , which I doubt , it is not a technique limited to the MS

Also Danzo , used multiple regular sharingan alongside Senju DNA for izanagi so that is proof

The proof lies in the eye used for izanagi is sacrificed , shishuis eye was recovering and was not used , otherwise it opens the idea that it can be spammed

That's the doubt I have, actually. Did Danzou really sacrifice the eyes he 'used' or he sacrificed these eyes using Shisui's MS?

Also, Senju DNA applies to Shisui's eye, so it could recover faster after being used. Obviously, the time needed for recovery would be way longer.

@PainToTheEarth: I'll just pass from you kid, I had a doubt and you just lack respect, so stop right there.

 

[foxyladyland]

watch the kabuto battle arc, itachi explains about previous uchihas before madara or during the same era with. ms it was ems that mddy was the first you only need regular ms to use inzanagi inzanami

Danzo didn't have MS used for Izanagi

I think u need senju dna for izanagi + sharingan

izanami though.. well I think you don't , but zetsu were probably used as the living corpses needed to summon edo tensei .

V.O.T.E. mystery
If Madara used Izanagi to revive from Hashirama's stab at V.O.T.E. that means he um.. might've used genjutsu then slipped an eye in before the stabbing OR just clung to life and slipped it in. OR he had somehow copied Muu's fissure jutsu and split into 2 separate Original Madaras and only one of them got stabbed.
Because Madara gave both EMS evolved into Rinnegan to Nagato. OR maybe the Gedo can give a sharingan its light back.

 

[The Sach]

Just like some other guys said, you can probably use Izanami/Izanagi with Normal sharingan.

 

[Uchiha Samater]

That's the doubt I have, actually. Did Danzou really sacrifice the eyes he 'used' or he sacrificed these eyes using Shisui's MS?

Also, Senju DNA applies to Shisui's eye, so it could recover faster after being used. Obviously, the time needed for recovery would be way longer.

@PainToTheEarth: I'll just pass from you kid, I had a doubt and you just lack respect, so stop right there.

I see what you mean, I guess in a certain light it's a bit ambiguous, because we have only seen in canon a "fake MS" user use the izanagi, as well as obito

And one definite MS user use Izanami

I'll stick to the opinion that they are jutsus available to all uchiha with a sharingan and Senju DNA (izanagi that is )

 

[Mr Hiru]

Danzo didn't have MS used for Izanagi

I think u need senju dna for izanagi + sharingan

izanami though.. well I think you don't , but zetsu were probably used as the living corpses needed to summon edo tensei .

V.O.T.E. mystery
If Madara used Izanagi to revive from Hashirama's stab at V.O.T.E. that means he um.. might've used genjutsu then slipped an eye in before the stabbing OR just clung to life and slipped it in. OR he had somehow copied Muu's fissure jutsu and split into 2 separate Original Madaras and only one of them got stabbed.
Because Madara gave both EMS evolved into Rinnegan to Nagato. OR maybe the Gedo can give a sharingan its light back.

That makes sense, but still that leaves some things in a dark clouds...

How did Uchiha clan transmit the knowledge for that technique (Izanami specifically, since the 3-Tomoe isn't proved for this technique), and where did Madara get other spare sharingans from before awakening the Rinnegan, since as far as I understand, he had to have Senju DNA in order to awake the Rinnegan, and before that, the cells wouldn't react to his commands.

 

[foxyladyland]

That makes sense, but still that leaves some things in a dark clouds...

How did Uchiha clan transmit the knowledge for that technique (Izanami specifically, since the 3-Tomoe isn't proved for this technique), and where did Madara get other spare sharingans from before awakening the Rinnegan, since as far as I understand, he had to have Senju DNA in order to awake the Rinnegan, and before that, the cells wouldn't react to his commands.

Who knows how they transmitted the knowledge for Izanami? , but maybe it was the same way Itachi explained it to Sasuke.
They probably trained inside of genjutsu with each other; like Madara trained Obito before he went to see Nagato.

Well the Uchiha & Senju were in a war and most likely Uchiha eyes were hunted just like Senju DNA. Dead Uchiha couldn't use their eyes anymore so the living Uchiha could actually make use of them if they wanted to . =)

Yeah . Who knows if he really died from that stab and used a jutsu to revive himself , maybe he just appeared dead to Hashirama , but was actually alive the whole time. Then staggered and found the cave & the Gedo. =)

Actually *_* since madara can identify a wood clone, maybe he cast a genjutsu on that wood clone then after Hashirama stabbed Madara , the wood clone disappeared , and the commands Madara gave the wood clone were transferred into the real Hashirama. =)

 

[Lt Fresh]

Who said you need the mangekyou for izanami/izanagi?

Oh GOD!!! Dat Sig, is that the new opening?

 

[Sapiens Sequax Sex Semita]

there is the uchiha tablet as well which may have mentioned it.

 

[boshans]

People is forgetting that he had Shisui's MS :S

That's the doubt I have, actually. Did Danzou really sacrifice the eyes he 'used' or he sacrificed these eyes using Shisui's MS?

Also, Senju DNA applies to Shisui's eye, so it could recover faster after being used. Obviously, the time needed for recovery would be way longer.

@PainToTheEarth: I'll just pass from you kid, I had a doubt and you just lack respect, so stop right there.

Just because Danzo had one eye that was MS doesn't mean that every other eye that he has can somehow use MS tech. The eyes on his arm used Izanagi, they were 3 Tomoe eyes. Those eyes didn't magically gain the ability to use MS tech just because one of his eyes were MS. So therefore we must conclude that Izanagi can be used with a regular 3 Tomoe, and is not MS tech. Plus Itachi, in the MANGA, said that everyone in the past was using it, and that is why they made Izanami. It also said in the MANGA that Madara and Izuna were the first MS. So obviously all the Uchiha that used it before did not have MS since Madara/Izuna were the first. The Anime does not count, just because they showed a bunch of Uchiha with MS in the Anime means nothing. That episode was dumb anyway, MS is a rare thing, every ****ing Uchiha in that episode had MS. Totally not canon.