salamander uchiha
Active member
Beyond Rokudo level, he killed and hurt(vanishing rasengan) Momo when rokudo users couldn't scratch him with Chidori katana.
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If you had to replace 1 kage with Rock Lee..
- Thread starter Melanin
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To Whatever
Active member
Because it completely ruins the atmosphere, and the battles lose the special touch. Tell me, did you feel the same watching Kakashi vs Zabuza, then watching the battle against Kaguya? Strategy became completely useless, and it came down to who had the biggest avatar (inb4 Kakashi's last strategy, which was the only one to make strategies on the whole arc).
I don't give a flying **** about the "genre". HxH is a shonen and it was just a few battles for example. I read good stories, i don't care the genre.
Lol? Wtf. Aspull behind aspull to give Naruto and Sasuke more and more powers? The power of friendship saving everyone? Love is always the victor? Lmao. The plot was pathetic.
oh boy, you should really look out for other mangas if you think shippuden had "good strategy" in anything past Pain arc.
Long live Masashi Kishimoto getting tired of actually using his brain to build a fight, and just make it a battle of bombing the **** out of eachother with huge chakra balls.. lmao.
Do you realize that these power levels are the ones to blame of NO ONE getting decent character development except for the main characters?
The writing level of Naruto shippuden is pathetic, and it's a commercial strategy because seeing Naruto making blow shit up sells more, than seeing Shikamaru making a plan to beat the enemy.
The name "jonin" became a joke. But what to expect, i suppose you don't give a flying **** about anyone who isn't Sasuke, Naruto or Kakashi. Lmao.
(and it wouldn't surprise me if you like Boruto).
Anyways, i reccomend you reading Hunter x Hunter, and tell me what you think.
chaos control
Active member
Power enhances the atmosphere! The fight with Zabuza was okay, but it was lame in comparison to epic fights like VOTE 2 , Hashirama vs Madara VOTE fight, the Kaguya fight, the Rikudou Obito fight, etc... Did I feel the same way watching the Zabuza fight as I did with the Kaguya fight, you ask?
No! The Kaguya fight was much better! Much more was at stake! If team 7 lost, then humanity was done for! Kaguya, being a much stronger opponent made for a way more tense atmosphere! Meanwhile, what did Zabuza make for? He was literally just some rouge ninja being used by some corrupt rich guy.
I don't see how you can prefer weakness. When the level of the battles are weak, there is usually no real tension, and no real reason for me to actually feel excited or worried about the characters. If we just stuck with Zabuza esque battles the show would get really boring really fast.
Eventually, the hero needs to overcome some real adversity. Overcoming impossible odds such as fighting the juubi is a perfect depiction of how far your hero has come and how much they've been through.
Sticking to fighting weaklings won't accomplish that at all!
And yeah I like Boruto. What of it? Boruto expands the lore and the verse of the NV. It tells more about how society changed post war. It tells more about the Otsutsuki. It shows technological growth. Etc...
No offense, but you sound like you can't really appreciate things like a high tension plot or an expanded world. Everything has to be small scale for you. You are entitled to your opinion, but for me, the constant weakness is not my cup of tea.
By the way, I do like characters other than the ones you mentioned. In fact, Shikamaru is one of my favorite K11 members. I also like Hinata and others, but unlike you, I don't need everything to stay weak in order to enjoy the story.
Also, you have some logical fallacy if you think that power is the reason why other characters didn't get much development later on. They didn't get development because they had nothing to do with the main goals and plot of the antagonists. It is not because they were weak.
I'm sorry if I sound rude, but I just get this way with power hating weakness wankers. If you want to see weak people, go watch Dora the explorer or something.
What? Lmao, define "atmosphere". Atmosphere doesn't have anything to do with power, it has to do with the situation. But if you reached a point where the power levels are so ridiculoussly big, then the "ninja world" atmosphere is lost. A "ninja world" atmosphere is that with suspense.. that makes you feel a FUCKING KUNAI can change the course of the battle. This does NOT happen after Susano's and Monsters were flying all over the place.
Do you realize VOTE 2 is not a fight that I previously criticized? It's an amazing fight, because the power levels were still set to the atmosphere
I find it funny that after naming VOTE 2 fight, which is inferior to Kakashi vs Zabuza in power scales, you procced to name all this shippuden fights that have are nothing like VOTE 2 fight.
Lmao, the Kaguya fight was lame, and it was lazy writing. The only interesting moment was Kakashi tying a scroll to a kunai to no fall into lava, after all that, it was Naruto and Sasuke bombing the **** out of Kaguya' who's arsenal was ridiculoussly OP and could have ended them instantly with the "heavy dimention + ash bone" combo, which was only used once to kill Obito and then never used again by her, because only god knows what. Madara vs Hashirama was a laser circus.
But i'm starting to understand how your brain works. You don't give a shit about good writing, you just want a cool design and explotions. Just like a kid.
Of course you didn't, it didn't have "BOOMS"
Yes, the bold is true. However, during the whole fight, I knew that unless Kaguya pulled out a huge TBB enough to destroy a PS and and Naruto's orbs, nothing was going to happen. That's what happens when the power levels get so ridiculouss... strategy and suspense are completely lost.
The only strategy Kaguya used, wihch was teleport to the heavy dimention and use ash bones, was only used once, for the sake of plot. Why? Because Kishimoto completely lost control of his character's arsenals, and the fights were lazy written. But i repeat, give these people huge Kabooms and they will be fine.. Ok, i feel sorry for you actually, Naruto had a much bigger potential.
Again, the atmosphere isn't directly related to the powers of the fighter. You just proved yourself wrong when you stated VOTE2>Kakashi vs Zabuza, when the later is actually higher in power scales.
you're just reaching now. What does that have to do with the atmosphere. Zabuza was the most dangerous assasin we had seen at the moment.An opponent you can't see nor hear, hiding in the mist, itching to kill you.
But hey, that is not a tense atmosphere
Weakness is relative. Kid, use your brain. If Kishimoto hadn't introduced such stupidly strong fighters (which I already proved, completely changes the atmosphere) then the Zabuza vs Kakashi fight wouldn't be "weak". Lol. By your logic, If kishimoto wants to make Boruto vs Kawaki an universal buster fight, then Naruto vs Kaguya is automatically sent to the "weak" fights.
Again, use your brain. Kakashi and Zabuza were on the same level, and Kakashi's life was at stake. It doesn't matter if later, Kishimoto introduced 15 ft flying monsters, because Kakashi's power at that time was relatively equal to Zabuza.
^
the pathetic logic of this kid-Kakashi vs Zabuza, where Kakashi can't see or hear his opponent. Zabuza "dies" the first encounter. On the second encounter Zabuza slashes trough his chest with his sword, and says he wants to keep torturing him. Meanwhile, Sasuke "dies" against Haku. Doesn't feel worried about the characters
-Naruto and Sasuke vs Kaguya, where Kaguya, by plot armour, can't use the ash bone + gravity strategy. Where you know there's no strategy or surprise, because until you don't see a fucking moon sized ball about to explode, the characters will be fine, which i forgot to mention, are "childs of the prophecy" so of course, they won't lose, because the plot armour is thick as hell... feels worried about the characters? Lmao.
And this just shows how plain your reading comprehension is. I say: "the power levels are stupidly big after pain arc" .. what you understand "No stronger character than Zabuza should be introduced"
And if a "Zabuza-esque" battle is one with strategy, with suspense, then yes, it would've been at least better than this bullshit we got.
The writers can easely make those adversities not ridiculoussly big. I don't see your point here.
Lol, the Juubi fight was ridiculouss. The Juubi could've literally bombed the **** out of the alliance, but hey, says Madara let's not do that, despite i'm an edo and you Obito can go intangible, because the explotion will make us lose the control of the Juubi
COMPLETELY FORGETTING THAT THE JUUBI HAD ALREADY SHOWED A LASER TYPE TBB WHERE IT DOESN'T EXPLODE, IT JUST DESINTEGRATES ANYTHING THAT IT TOUCHES, SO MADARA AND OBITO USING IT WOULDN'T BE UNDER DANGER.
But hey, PLOT
doesn't matter. Let's just make a ridiculoussly big and strong opponent, and not make it use all its powers, because the readers are dumb anyways...
USE YOUR BRAIN. If you don't take the power scales to shit crazy levels, then they wouldn't be weaklings. Weakness is relative. You only think they're weak because stronger characters were introduced. You're using circular thinking.
I understand it now, lol
Now, Boruto has more atmosphere than Zabuza vs Kakashi too? 
i guess so, characters are stronger... (stupid logic intensifies)This was a discussion about fights so this is all irrelevant. But, moon people, seriously
Not only Kishimoto made such a stupid power scale system, that the fights don't make sense anymore, he also made a stupid plot, with plotholes everywhere, but hey, Boruto readers don't use their heads apparently.
Nvm, not taken
And again, not understanding the basics of relativity. Lmao.
-I never said the characters kept exactly the same power trough the series
-Weakness is relative, if you make a power scale where a fucking Kunai can still change things, where strategy actually matters, then you can make characters grow stronger, and keep the suspense atmosphere.
The bold is a joke. You don't even understand the concept of atmosphere and gave a contradictory and stupid definition of it, implied trough this whole shit of a post.
Already adressed. Weakness is relative.
USE YOUR BRAIN. On the bold: why is that? They didn't have anything to do with the antagonists goals because they don't have a sharingan, a rinnegan or a bijuu. And yes, because they are weak AF, they can't even be related on the way of opposing the villians.
But hey, it seems you're okay with the lack of development of these characters, since you didn't even deny it.
You KNOW these character didn't get character development and you just justify it USING THE FUCKING PLOT as an excuse.
You use the plot to excuse the plot.
You're defined as a circular thinker. You're like a religious person trying to use the Bible to prove God exists, do you understand that? Lmao.
AGAIN, let's see if i can help that brain work.
If you don't introduce such a stupid power level scale, then, you can still make your character grow stronger, but you can keep the atmosphere and the strategies. You only think the starting point is weakness because you were later introduced ridiculoussly strong characters, which is what i'm putting into question.
Learn what atmosphere means. Learn what circular thinking means. Learn the basics of relativity. Then, reply back to me.
If your answer is as lame and contradictory as your first and second one, then i'm not even bothering with you anymore.
Npw, here's an example of a Naruto universe that makes sense and keeps the atmosphere
-Kakashi vs Zabuza is a standard of what an elite jonin fight is
-We later get introduced to higher scaled battles, like kage level battles
-No perfect susano or flying future seeing monsters
-Naruto is a fucking gennin, he still has tp go trough chunnin, and then jonin, to become a hokage
-Make all the enemies fitting the new power scale
-Naruto fights trough the adversities, and the atmosphere is still that of a ninja world
-In this new system, Zabuza vs Kakashi is not "weak". It's actually a goal level for Naruto, that he must surpass
-Naruto becomes a Hokage, and he still wouldn't take an absolute shit on Zabuza or Kakashi. No shinobi in the world can take on an elite Jonnin like nothing. Even a Kage has to be careful against a Jonin
-That way, the name "jonin" still means something
-That way, naruto reaching Jonin still means something
....
....
...
I could go on. Is it that hard to grasp? I hope you understand, for your own sake, lmao.
Use your head. Don't jutify lazy writing because it was huge explotions. Why was Kaguya called the moon goddess if there was no moon until she was sealed? Smalls details like that one, that just crossed my head, showed how taking the power levels to shit crazy levels, takes your plot to a "stupid moon people with godly powers " plot , that of course, is full of plotholes.