If Kabuto Didn't Help Obito with the war....

Young Vongola

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Of course. Obito's weak as shit. Kamui makes him tricky to deal with but he lacks firepower. Much like Base Minato.
Re read manga pls.

OT: Yeah you're probably right. He would have had less Zetsu and no edos. I mean the Zetsus and edos were nothing but distractions for the fodder though, except for Madara. But if Obito found a way to get Hachibi and Kyubi chakra without Gin and Kin, things would have been about the same.
 

DannySenju

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It's not like the edo's were a big pain in the ass.. The zetsu's and transformations did more then the edo's.

Also this is called '' Plot '' There are no IF's in narutoverse.

Let's act like Madara wasn't kicking everyone's ass..
 
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Without Kabuto, Obito would have a little number of Zetsus, no Madara to save him, no Edo Jinchuurikis, he would get defeated after 3-4 hours of battling >_>

Who said he needs Edo Jinchuriki? He can shove the Bijuu in any dead body and control them via Rinnegan like how Nagato did with his Paths...
 

Demonic.

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Re read manga pls. .

If you think Obito without a summoning has firepower the likes of Killer Bee, 7th Gate Gai, Hashirama, and EMS Madara can produce then you can go reread the manga before you bother to quote me.
 

Osmon

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Who said he needs Edo Jinchuriki? He can shove the Bijuu in any dead body and control them via Rinnegan like how Nagato did with his Paths...
Obito without Kabuto weak af man.
 

Young Vongola

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If you think Obito without a summoning has firepower the likes of Killer Bee, 7th Gate Gai, Hashirama, and EMS Madara can produce then you can go reread the manga before you bother to quote me.

It's funny because I didn't mention any characters' names, I'm just letting you know he wasn't weak even without the mazou, the edo jins or the jubi. His katon is on par with Madara's (Jubi sized), he has mokuton, Rinnegan, Uchiha kaenjin, etc. He was a powerful shinobi, dc isn't everything.
 

Osmon

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He's still top 10. Only people who can beat him at the time were Naruto,Hashirama,Madara,Minato and 8G Gai...and probably Tobirama only because of FTG
Sike, yo ain't right.
 

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The plan was to have white zetsus transform into ninjas and do what happened in the manga to draw out naruto so he could catch him
 

xxSAGExx

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Obito would still either use his rinnegan to revive madara then madara would just use mazou and take Naruto and bee, or I mean obito could just prepare the juubi by himself and judging by his words he was going to initiate IT immediately, madara was the reason the juubi battle was prolonged. Also if kabuto didn't help obito then itachi would've never came and sasuke would still be hell bent on destroying the leaf, gaara wouldn't have gold sand from his father, and the five kage would have no reason to come to battle until juubito comes and only if juubito comes, also no itachi would be equivalent to no orochimaru which equals no four kages which means, juubito the coolest guy solos Narutoverse

Naruto would still have KA so the moment he looks into Itachi's eyes which Sasuke got, he would be KA with the order "Protect Konoha". Obito never planned on reviving Madara, that was Madara plan but Obito never wanted to do that and doing so would kill him. The 5 Kages, Kakashi, Gai, and the whole alliance would be there and in a much better health than they were in the manga since they wouldn't have to fight Edo's. Shikaku would be alive to give everyone strategies such as the one he gave them to block Obito's, Edo Madara, and the Juubi's sight and ability to sense them as they attack.

Obito being the last person alive (all Zetsu would be dead) would be a reason for the Kages to enter the fight, they would go to protect Naruto and Bee; all alliance members were asked to go there when they could. Also Suigetsu and Juugo would still have the scroll on how to revive the 4 Hokages and still would track Sasuke down so it really depends on if Sasuke was KA before or after. Even if Sasuke was still evil, Hashirama wasn't held down by Orochimaru's control even with Hashirama cells boosting his power so worst case Hashirama kills the summoner and head to battle with the other Hokages. If Sasuke was evil then I see him using villagers as sacrifices and use genjutsus on a ninja to cut their stomach open to free the Hokage's souls. If Sasuke was KA the he would give it to the Kages who would figure out how to do it with Tsunade cutting her own stomach and using her Yin seal to heal.

Obito achieves SO6P power on his own tho

He needed gold and silver bros to be revived to use them as the Kyuubi substitute. Edo Madara also took down the 5 Kages who could join Naruto and Bee when they first meet up with Obito. Wouldn't be hard to kill Obito when Kakashi use Kamui to let dust release hit Obito or any other attack like lava or boiling release. Naruto wouldn't be a prefect Jin at the time though unless Obito uses the Bijuus to fight but BM Naruto can take them out.
 

Demonic.

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It's funny because I didn't mention any characters' names, I'm just letting you know he wasn't weak even without the mazou, the edo jins or the jubi. His katon is on par with Madara's (Jubi sized), he has mokuton, Rinnegan, Uchiha kaenjin, etc. He was a powerful shinobi, dc isn't everything.

Well you clearly took the term weak out of context. Was referring to his firepower in comparison to these other characters plus more like Nagato, BM Naruto, etc.

Hell even Itachi with Susanoo has more firepower than Obito without summons.
 

Young Vongola

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Well you clearly took the term weak out of context. Was referring to his firepower in comparison to these other characters plus more like Nagato, BM Naruto, etc.

Hell even Itachi with Susanoo has more firepower than Obito without summons.

Okay so you were referring to destructive capacity, I understood that. But what I'm saying is dc isn't everything. It doesn't matter if he can't do massive bomb attacks without summons, that's not necessarily what wins wars. Minato won a whole battle in war solo and he doesn't have that mass firepower either. And since when are summons not included in a persons arsenal?
 

solo king

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Don't forget kabuto also captured yamato and powered up the white zetsus. Plus his Edo's jins wouldn't have been available to obito

Kabuto WAS the war.everything that happened was just dumb luck really.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Don't forget kabuto also captured yamato and powered up the white zetsus. Plus his Edo's jins wouldn't have been available to obito

Kabuto WAS the war.everything that happened was just dumb luck really.

Totally agree but Obito's plan wasn't for an actual war. He was just setting a Zetsu trap to lure out the final Jins, it didn't have to be an actual war for the plan to work. Worst comes to worst and he's outmatched by an unlucky match-up? He's got BZ, Gedo Mazu, Edo Jins & Rikudou Mode as a last ditch effort. He was set.

Kabuto made it into a war.
 

Demonic.

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Okay so you were referring to destructive capacity, I understood that. But what I'm saying is dc isn't everything. It doesn't matter if he can't do massive bomb attacks without summons, that's not necessarily what wins wars. Minato won a whole battle in war solo and he doesn't have that mass firepower either.

Hence my statement: "Kamui makes him tricky to deal with but he lacks firepower"

Obito solos top tier shinobi like Nagato because he phases through everything Nagato dishes out I.e Nagato cannot counter Kamui. Yet Base Minato who is weaker than Nagato took out Obito.

And since when are summons not included in a persons arsenal?

The point of this thread is to gauge Obito's strength without summons.
 

SenseiSama

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super michael

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Obito achieves SO6P power on his own tho

That was with the help of Kabuto, if Kabuto didn't revive the Kingaku and Ginkaku, then it would of been impossible to get Kurama chakra, since there be no way to get a piece of Kurama chakra.
 

solo king

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Totally agree but Obito's plan wasn't for an actual war. He was just setting a Zetsu trap to lure out the final Jins, it didn't have to be an actual war for the plan to work. Worst comes to worst and he's outmatched by an unlucky match-up? He's got BZ, Gedo Mazu, Edo Jins & Rikudou Mode as a last ditch effort. He was set.

Kabuto made it into a war.

He wouldn't have the Edo jins though.plus he couldn't control the bijuu very well.his plan might have drawn out naruto and bee,but he would have lost without a doubt.

Also,as others have pointed out,he wouldn't have had gin/kin for kyuubi chakra.so no JJ.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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He wouldn't have the Edo jins though.plus he couldn't control the bijuu very well.his plan might have drawn out naruto and bee,but he would have lost without a doubt.

Also,as others have pointed out,he wouldn't have had gin/kin for kyuubi chakra.so no JJ.

Ah right, small slip-up with the jins haha.

Remember Obito didn't actually intend to run into the Jins and headbutt smack right into the targets face haha. Obito's powers and style involve him being quite stealthy. I'd personally say Gedo Mazu and possible Madara from BZ would've pulled it.

Also mm. Gotta admit the Gin/Kin bit wasn't so good. That was bad thinking.
 
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