[Discussion] I would like to point out...

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

Remember when Doffy toyed with Jozu?

This means Luffy is likely on the same tier as;

Doffy, Sabo, Marco etc

1 below top tier

 

[Prog]

Yep, Luffy is getting up there.

 

[BlazeZero]

Luffy > Doflamingo atm doe

 

[YellowFang]

Luffy > Doflamingo atm doe

A wounded Doffy...

OT:
I don't think he's actually up there but a tier below...
We have to keep in mind that Law has greatly contributed in this battle or else Luffy wouldn't have been able to go G4...

Also, someone said that Sabo/ Marco are just a tier below the top one, I believe that's wrong because that tier belongs to the likes of Shanks, Rayleigh, Mihawk, etc...

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Doffy still beats Luffy in an all out fight where they start on even grounds

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Uhhhhhh no kind of. Jozu>Doflamingo. Jozu doesn't have enough willpower to resist Doffy's parasite string. That's all. He is immune to Doffy's cuts and kicks as well. Marco>Jozu>Sabo>G4 Luffy>= Doflamingo

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Uhhhhhh no kind of. Jozu>Doflamingo. Jozu doesn't have enough willpower to resist Doffy's parasite string. That's all. He is immune to Doffy's cuts and kicks as well. Marco>Jozu>Sabo>G4 Luffy>= Doflamingo

Sabo below Jozu?

 

[U mAd]

i wold like to point out that luffy being at marcos level is bullshit

 

[chopstickchakra]

A wounded Doffy...

OT:
I don't think he's actually up there but a tier below...
We have to keep in mind that Law has greatly contributed in this battle or else Luffy wouldn't have been able to go G4...

Also, someone said that Sabo/ Marco are just a tier below the top one, I believe that's wrong because that tier belongs to the likes of Shanks, Rayleigh, Mihawk, etc...

A wounded Luffy. Before Law's Gamma Knife Luffy had easily taken more damage pre fight than Doffy but since Gamma Knife I'd say they satarted their fight equally damaged.

 

[Hexuze]

Doflamingo is being underestimated from this week's chapter.

 

[ultraChalk]

Uhhhhhh no kind of. Jozu>Doflamingo. Jozu doesn't have enough willpower to resist Doffy's parasite string. That's all. He is immune to Doffy's cuts and kicks as well. Marco>Jozu>Sabo>G4 Luffy>= Doflamingo

I don't understand your logic. It's because he can't resist Mingos strings that he would lose in a fight to him.

I should remind you, Mingo wasn't even serious at any point in the war. He was just playing when he started controlling Jozu. If he will it, he could just toss him in the water.

Unless you're just talking about in physical strength? In that case yeah Jozu is strongest.

 

[Punk Hazard]

A wounded Luffy. Before Law's Gamma Knife Luffy had easily taken more damage pre fight than Doffy but since Gamma Knife I'd say they satarted their fight equally damaged.

Not even close. The grand total of damage Luffy took that wasn't done by Doffy during this arc were:
1. In the colosseum hours ago that left him just tired, which no longer applies since he ate and had plenty of time to rest
2. Being punched around by Bellamy, who is far below his level.

Doffy has had his organs torn to shreds, being pushed to the brink of death. Luffy has not received as much as damage as Doffy, he's just so far below Doffy that the insignificant damage he took left him in a state that can contend with an almost mortally wounded Doffy.

 

[bajram]

Doflamingo never toyed with Jozu, first of all he was completely off guard to doflamingo, the nature of his hax DF makes it possible for him to do things like that, fighting head on with jozu parasite isnt working, the simplicity of u people is ridiculous u came to the conclusion that dofla can toy with one of the two strongest people of WB pirates just because of a panel.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doflamingo never toyed with Jozu, first of all he was completely off guard to doflamingo, the nature of his hax DF makes it possible for him to do things like that, fighting head on with jozu parasite isnt working, the simplicity of u people is ridiculous u came to the conclusion that dofla can toy with one of the two strongest people of WB pirates just because of a panel.

I know right? The nerve of some people, assuming Doffy can leave Jozu immobile because of a panel where Doffy left him immobile.

Seriously, in a fight between Jozu and Doffy, it wouldn't have gone differently. Doffy was able to ensnare Jozu while Jozu was charging to attack. That shows that Doflamingo has the reaction speed and capability to use Parasite on Jozu while he's attacking, so it's not like you can say "If Jozu charges at him offensively, Parasite won't work"; it worked while he was charging offensively. Doffy doesn't need Jozu to be distracted either because he stopped Jozu before he got to Crocodile's spot, meaning he cut him off mid-charge. Even if he did, Black Knight works perfectly for just that, as well as the ability to fly.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Not even close. The grand total of damage Luffy took that wasn't done by Doffy during this arc were:
1. In the colosseum hours ago that left him just tired, which no longer applies since he ate and had plenty of time to rest
2. Being punched around by Bellamy, who is far below his level.

Doffy has had his organs torn to shreds, being pushed to the brink of death. Luffy has not received as much as damage as Doffy, he's just so far below Doffy that the insignificant damage he took left him in a state that can contend with an almost mortally wounded Doffy.

Insignificant? DD said Luffy was halfway to death.

 

[Bogard]

Uhhhhhh no kind of. Jozu>Doflamingo. Jozu doesn't have enough willpower to resist Doffy's parasite string. That's all. He is immune to Doffy's cuts and kicks as well. Marco>Jozu>Sabo>G4 Luffy>= Doflamingo

I can somewhat agree with this, except i think Luffy only has the potential to match Doflamingo, but is still overall weaker than him. Basically i believe current Luffy has the potential of a low top tier, but the drawbacks puts him back at a high high tier level

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I know right? The nerve of some people, assuming Doffy can leave Jozu immobile because of a panel where Doffy left him immobile.

Seriously, in a fight between Jozu and Doffy, it wouldn't have gone differently. Doffy was able to ensnare Jozu while Jozu was charging to attack. That shows that Doflamingo has the reaction speed and capability to use Parasite on Jozu while he's attacking, so it's not like you can say "If Jozu charges at him offensively, Parasite won't work"; it worked while he was charging offensively. Doffy doesn't need Jozu to be distracted either because he stopped Jozu before he got to Crocodile's spot, meaning he cut him off mid-charge. Even if he did, Black Knight works perfectly for just that, as well as the ability to fly.

I think Parasite string is Doffy using his will to overpower the wills of his targets. I always found it strange that he controlled Baby 5, Atmos, VA Stainless and Bellamy no problem but only restrained Jozu and Sanji abd never bothered to control people like Luffy, Law and Crocodile. The answer I can think of that people like Luffy and Law can't be controlled because their willpower is too strong and people like Jozu and Sanji have too much willpower to be controlled fully, but not enough to resist completely.

Parasite string is entirely situational. With Parasite, Jozu beats Doflamingo. With parasite, Doflamingo wins for obvious reasons.

Not even close. The grand total of damage Luffy took that wasn't done by Doffy during this arc were:
1. In the colosseum hours ago that left him just tired, which no longer applies since he ate and had plenty of time to rest
2. Being punched around by Bellamy, who is far below his level.

Doffy has had his organs torn to shreds, being pushed to the brink of death. Luffy has not received as much as damage as Doffy, he's just so far below Doffy that the insignificant damage he took left him in a state that can contend with an almost mortally wounded Doffy.

You also have to consider the damage Luffy took from fighting the marionette clone. He got kicked threw the floors a couple of times but anyways, Doffy>Luffy(non G4 of course) so if they were to become equal due to their injuries, it obviously means Doffy has taken more damage.

 

[Bogard]

Think of parasite as Sugar's hax. The type of move that can end even top tier characters in one hit if they don't pay attention, but Jozu's fighting capability remains higher than anything Doflamingo ever showed so far. So in a match, Doflamingo has a slim chance if he manages to parasite Jozu in a distaction or something like that(and eventhen, i don't think he could capitalize on it since Jozu may have been able to break it with time, or he can't bypass his defense), but it's his only chance because Jozu remains the stronger combattant. Like Enel who was vastly stronger than Luffy, but lost due to bad match-up and losing his temper

Or in Naruto like how Sharingan users could genjutsu Kyubi, but Kyubi is vastly stronger than almost all the Uchihas

 

[Punk Hazard]

Insignificant? DD said Luffy was halfway to death.

He actually never said that. In the most accurate translation, which is Viz, he said "You've taken heavy damage already."

I think Parasite string is Doffy using his will to overpower the wills of his targets. I always found it strange that he controlled Baby 5, Atmos, VA Stainless and Bellamy no problem but only restrained Jozu and Sanji abd never bothered to control people like Luffy, Law and Crocodile. The answer I can think of that people like Luffy and Law can't be controlled because their willpower is too strong and people like Jozu and Sanji have too much willpower to be controlled fully, but not enough to resist completely.

Parasite string is entirely situational. With Parasite, Jozu beats Doflamingo. With parasite, Doflamingo wins for obvious reasons.



You also have to consider the damage Luffy took from fighting the marionette clone. He got kicked threw the floors a couple of times but anyways, Doffy>Luffy(non G4 of course) so if they were to become equal due to their injuries, it obviously means Doffy has taken more damage.

I was only including damage not inflicted by Doffy himself, as we're looking at external factors that could be hindering Doffy and Luffy in the fight against each other. Black Knight is part of Doffy's arsenal, and doesn't count as an external damaging factor to Luffy vs Doflamingo. And Doffy is only inferior to G4 right now because of the damage he took reducing his capabilities, which is probably most evident in the fact that Doffy currently couldn't notice a Jet attack until it was right at his chest, while an inferior Black Knight earlier could swat a Jet Pistol aside like it was nothing. Luffy hasn't received nearly as much damage as getting your organs torn apart.

Think of parasite as Sugar's hax. The type of move that can end even top tier characters in one hit if they don't pay attention, but Jozu's fighting capability remains higher than anything Doflamingo ever showed so far. So in a match, Doflamingo has a slim chance if he manages to parasite Jozu in a distaction or something like that(and eventhen, i don't think he could capitalize on it since Jozu may have been able to break it with time, or he can't bypass his defense), but it's his only chance because Jozu remains the stronger combattant. Like Enel who was vastly stronger than Luffy, but lost due to bad match-up and losing his temper

Or in Naruto like how Sharingan users could genjutsu Kyubi, but Kyubi is vastly stronger than almost all the Uchihas

Manga indicates otherwise. Jozu is portrayed as an immensely serious character, as he's been depicted smiling. By contrast, many of his peers and nakama were shown smiling at some point or another in the war, so him being in a war isn't an excuse. His friends were fighting all around him, Ace was in danger, and Whitebeard was being fought by Admirals. It makes no sense for why Jozu, a character depicted so far to be extremely serious, would let himself remain trapped by an enemy under these circumstances.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

He actually never said that. In the most accurate translation, which is Viz, he said "You've taken heavy damage already."

I was only including damage not inflicted by Doffy himself, as we're looking at external factors that could be hindering Doffy and Luffy in the fight against each other. Black Knight is part of Doffy's arsenal, and doesn't count as an external damaging factor to Luffy vs Doflamingo. And Doffy is only inferior to G4 right now because of the damage he took reducing his capabilities, which is probably most evident in the fact that Doffy currently couldn't notice a Jet attack until it was right at his chest, while an inferior Black Knight earlier could swat a Jet Pistol aside like it was nothing. Luffy hasn't received nearly as much damage as getting your organs torn apart.


Manga indicates otherwise. Jozu is portrayed as an immensely serious character, as he's been depicted smiling. By contrast, many of his peers and nakama were shown smiling at some point or another in the war, so him being in a war isn't an excuse. His friends were fighting all around him, Ace was in danger, and Whitebeard was being fought by Admirals. It makes no sense for why Jozu, a character depicted so far to be extremely serious, would let himself remain trapped by an enemy under these circumstances.

Either way, taking heavy damage isn't insignificant.