[Theory] I Know why Tobi gave Nagato the Rinnegan

[Musashi Uchiha]

Decent theory, I agree somewhat.

 

[Aze]

I agree...and because Nagato is an Uzumaki.

Yep Uzumaki Life force makes Senju and Uchiha look like butterflies in comparison

 

[NarutoKage2]

Spoiler

Your argument is extremely flawed and based on only one speech bubble that was translated from another language.

There is an insurmountable amount of evidence for Izuna,

1)He hasn't been summoned by Kabuto (or even mentioned)
2) Similarities to Madara are immense, both are Uchihas (Tobi being a REAL UCHIHA), both have EMS, both can control the Nine-Tails, even Minato and Jiraiya mistook Tobi for Madara based solely on his power
3) Madara knows how to revive people from the dead. Just because Izuna DIED doesn't mean he is DEAD. Who else would Madara revive using Rinne Tensei but his brother?
4) We know the Rinnergan were Tobi's eyes TO BEGIN WITH, Madara took/was given Izuna's eyes meaning that Izunas eyes are the root of Madaras powers and it is likely that Nagato's eyes are Madaras original set of eyes
5) This

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Prove me wrong.

EDIT:

Terrible counter arguments, all of them. I guess Izuna=Tobi tards are getting desperate now lol.

1. Neither has Kagami, Shisui, the Elder Son etc. So your point is ?
2. Another fail on your part. Izuna had the EMS?? He died with only the Mangekyuo, Madara took his eyes and gained EMS, not Izuna. You should read the manga before making ignorant statements.
EDIT: Just saw you said Madara has similarities to Tobi in this point. Well again when has Tobi been shown with anything other than a 3 tomoe sharingan? Besides, this point does't help Tobi=Izuna if you were referring to Madara.
And Minato never mistook Tobi for Madara, he just asked him if he were Madara, as he did'nt know of anyone else that would make sense to be Tobi.
3.Where has that been shown? What Madara said about reviving Hashirama was just in jest, he does'nt know how to revive people, or else why did'nt he just give his rinnegan to Izuna(if he revived him) and tell him how to revive himself with it? He only knew that the rinnegan had rinne tensei, him knowing how to use it is incredibly unlikely as he died 'shortly' after awakening it.
4. Sorry but that is just an assumption on your part. Tobi said i gave Nagato the rinnegan, but obviously Madara was the one who gave Tobi his rinnegan . Those were'nt Tobi's eyes to begin with, stop stating speculations as fact.

5. And what ? Does'nt prove anything. The counter arguments against it are far greater evidence than that one page.

You call all that^^ insurmountable evidence?

ok.

 

[ComedyDaggers]

Yep Uzumaki Life force makes Senju and Uchiha look like butterflies in comparison

Or little spiders in my house

 

[Aze]

Or little spiders in my house

yeah , I brought up a Modest comparison , but yours is better Also reading manga all over again , too find more proof , Maybe Kishi has left behind some clues..Ill have too Pick them up^^

 

[psukkar]

did anyone read my post??????

i did and im just wonder how many more uchiha fansboys are going to completely miss that detail. the count is goign up and up

 

[Aze]

It really would'nt. It would be beyond lame, it'd be pointless to an extreme.


Sure he would. But he can't be resurrected by Edo Tensei if he faked his death, duh.

Btw, if you're talking about Madara faking Izuna's death, then why did Madara himself say his brother died?

Your arguments about Izuna are not working. Keep believing if you want to, but i'd say drop it if you want my opinion, its a very cliche and bore kind of an option, plus its illogical.

Izuna is the best candidate so far IMO , also I havent updated my thread , and thanks for coooperating with me , I know I might have some flaws in my theory I never sayed it was 100 % accurate , now all wat I have to do is read some parts of the Manga again and find more Proof on this subject and rearrange my thread.

Id say why my point is valid now.

Izuna Uchiha was able too fake hes death , make hes brother believe hes dead , make himself a new identity and leave hes former self behind (Im nothing more than a shell of my former self) , start working with Madara , and deceive the Shinobi world , After Madaras death , he took hes identity and started working in the shadows , and made the new Generation believe , that he was Madara Uchiha.

 

[edo tensai wilmaso]

Izuna is the best candidate so far IMO , also I havent updated my thread , and thanks for coooperating with me , I know I might have some flaws in my theory I never sayed it was 100 % accurate , now all wat I have to do is read some parts of the Manga again and find more Proof on this subject and rearrange my thread.

Id say why my point is valid now.

Izuna Uchiha was able too fake hes death , make hes brother believe hes dead , make himself a new identity and leave hes former self behind (Im nothing more than a shell of my former self) , start working with Madara , and deceive the Shinobi world , After Madaras death , he took hes identity and started working in the shadows , and made the new Generation believe , that he was Madara Uchiha.

so izuna faked his death? can a blind man fake his death ..get real

 

[Aze]

so izuna faked his death? can a blind man fake his death ..get real

dont tell a blind man wat he cant do...I bet he prepared a pair of eyes before giving hes own too Madara , Izuna seeing all of it , wat conflicts between clans can bring to this world , he started too hate the world and end all of the conflicts that's why Tobi (Izuna) became too work together.

I repeat : They are not bad people ...they want too create Peace ,,, but their methods are bad.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Izuna is the best candidate so far IMO , also I havent updated my thread , and thanks for coooperating with me , I know I might have some flaws in my theory I never sayed it was 100 % accurate , now all wat I have to do is read some parts of the Manga again and find more Proof on this subject and rearrange my thread.

Id say why my point is valid now.

Izuna Uchiha was able too fake hes death , make hes brother believe hes dead , make himself a new identity and leave hes former self behind (Im nothing more than a shell of my former self) , start working with Madara , and deceive the Shinobi world , After Madaras death , he took hes identity and started working in the shadows , and made the new Generation believe , that he was Madara Uchiha.

I don't agree with any of that.

One more thing, if you are going to stick with the Izuna theory, i'd recommend you'd edit it so it at least seems possible going by the manga. Madara knew Tobi, we already know this so don't say he made his brother believe he's dead. I'll help you, here:

Izuna's eyes were taken from Madara and then he died. Sometime after Madara awakened the rinnegan, he managed to use Rinne Tensei(in a short span of time, possibly brought on by an influx of adrenaline at awakening his new eyes). He resurrected the only man he could trust with his Eye of the Moon Plan: his brother. Of course, Izuna had the Mangekyuo, and the world knew this, so to avoid attracting suspicion he took out a random fodder Uchiha and transplanted his eyes instead. This is why Tobi only has the 3 tomoe. Meanwhile, Izuna took Madara's rinnegan and gave it to Nagato. Madara's death was sudden, so he was unable to tell Izuna how to use Rinne Tensei to revive him due to the time constraint.

There, this argument does'nt contradict the facts, at least.

Hope it helps.

Oh, and you'll have to come up with something on how Izuna managed to develop space time jutsus that even Madara himself never had as well. And also explain why Izuna never attacked Konoha before Naruto's birth 16 years ago, and why Izuna never thought of reviving his brother once he learned through Nagato the Rinnegan's power of revival. And why he did'nt try to put Kabuto under genjutsu the moment he saw his beloved brother revived in the 6th coffin.
Also, Izuna gave his eyes for the Uchiha, why would he want to exterminate all of them?

So even after improving your argument, it still has a huge burden of proof against it. This is why the Izuna theory has never attracted my fancy.

 

[Aze]

tobi gave the rinnagon to nagatoe because he needed someone he could trust not just any random fool walking down or up the sreet

Also , talk him about the Uchiha stone tablet , The sage and the Sage sons.

 

[edo tensai wilmaso]

lmao ok yeah believe that , madara got rinnengan b4 he dies not right after he gets ems lmao . and your thoery sir holds no weight. wanna know why cause now your just making stuff up ... dont underestimate a blind man lmao thats your best arguement?

 

[Aze]

lmao ok yeah believe that , madara got rinnengan b4 he dies not right after he gets ems lmao . and your thoery sir holds no weight. wanna know why cause now your just making stuff up ... dont underestimate a blind man lmao thats your best arguement?

Every Prediction made consists of a part called "making stuff up".
And yes I have the right.
Kishimoto also has the Right.
Naruto Manga = a stuff that has been made up by Kishimoto

It's called freedom of speach based upon NarutoBase Global Rules and The Morality of Modern age of mankind.

According to these rules , I can associate Tobi being Izuna = Gave Nagato the Rinnegan = Acted as Madara

You dont scare me , and if you wanna flame me , do it like NarutoKage2 does , he's atleast Mature , and a good fella , He can bring up good statements , and He has proven me wrong on some parts of My theory , wat I highly Respect.

Hope this helped you ^^

 

[Inception]

Izuna's eyes were taken from Madara and then he died. Sometime after Madara awakened the rinnegan, he managed to use Rinne Tensei(in a short span of time, possibly brought on by an influx of adrenaline at awakening his new eyes). He resurrected the only man he could trust with his Eye of the Moon Plan: his brother.

Exactly what the OP said.

Of course, Izuna had the Mangekyuo, and the world knew this, so to avoid attracting suspicion he took out a random fodder Uchiha and transplanted his eyes instead. This is why Tobi only has the 3 tomoe.

The world knew Madara Uchiha better than Izuna. He was hiding his Sharingan.

Contradiction. Tobi knows exactly how Rinne Tensei works and he planned on having Nagato use it for his plan. If I remember correctly, Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique can only bring back those who were killed recently. Reviving someone who has been dead for a while must take a lot of chakra or a life or a death.

Oh, and you'll have to come up with something on how Izuna managed to develop space time jutsus that even Madara himself never had as well.

Madara and Hashirama were rivals. I would not be surprised if Izuna and Tobirama had their own rivalry. If Madara can steal Hashirama's powers, why can't Izuna copy Tobirama's? "Kagami is Tobi" theory fits perfectly when this question is asked as well.

And also explain why Izuna never attacked Konoha before Naruto's birth 16 years ago, and why Izuna never thought of reviving his brother once he learned through Nagato the Rinnegan's power of revival. And why he did'nt try to put Kabuto under genjutsu the moment he saw his beloved brother revived in the 6th coffin.

Who is saying that Tobi is following Madara's plan as Madara told him to? Tobi obviously has plans of his own. Kabuto confirmed that even he doesn't know if the "fake Madara" will act according to the plan.

QUOTE=NarutoKage2;6262612]Also, Izuna gave his eyes for the Uchiha, why would he want to exterminate all of them?

Both Tobi and Itachi have said that Izuna gave his eyes/ Madara took Izuna's eyes forcefully because Madara lost his sight. In other words, he gave his eyes up for his brother or his brother took them. He needed them to remain strong and to protect the clan thus benefiting the whole clan.

QUOTE=NarutoKage2;6262612]So even after improving your argument, it still has a huge burden of proof against it. This is why the Izuna theory has never attracted my fancy.[/QUOTE]

Izuna and Kagami theory are the top 2 theories tbh. Who do you speculate Tobi is?

 

[NarutoKage2]

Exactly what the OP said.

Does'nt hold any weight

The world knew Madara Uchiha better than Izuna. He was hiding his Sharingan.

That argument can be used to support anyone being Tobi, try again.

Contradiction. Tobi knows exactly how Rinne Tensei works and he planned on having Nagato use it for his plan. If I remember correctly, Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique can only bring back those who were killed recently. Reviving someone who has been dead for a while must take a lot of chakra or a life or a death.

Yes Tobi knew, but when? If he were Izuna, as soon as Madara died he would have tried to revive him. Assuming he found out about the tech later through Nagato, he would still have tried to use it himself, at the latest when he took the rinnegan after killing Nagato. Why did'nt he care about reviving his brother?

Madara and Hashirama were rivals. I would not be surprised if Izuna and Tobirama had their own rivalry. If Madara can steal Hashirama's powers, why can't Izuna copy Tobirama's? "Kagami is Tobi" theory fits perfectly when this question is asked as well.

We don't know the age difference between Hashirama and Tobirama. And in case you've forgotten, the 2nd Hokage was the one who made the Uchiha clan into the Konoha police force, if he had a rivalry with Izuna, i doubt he would have been so kind to the Uchiha Clan as he was.
Kagami theory has many flaws, basically there's so little known about Kagami but from what we do know he:
-was part of the Uchiha clan.
-was loyal to Konoha
None of those attributes fit him being Tobi, the Uchiha clan was massacred and why would Kagami want that? And the biggest problem is that i doubt Kishi would make an almost unknown character the masked man. It just does'nt fit.

Who is saying that Tobi is following Madara's plan as Madara told him to? Tobi obviously has plans of his own. Kabuto confirmed that even he doesn't know if the "fake Madara" will act according to the plan.

Exactly. But if it were Izuna, he'd owe Madara his life(only way that Tobi=Izuna is if Madara used Rinne Tensei to revive him), he would'nt then go against real Madara.

Both Tobi and Itachi have said that Izuna gave his eyes/ Madara took Izuna's eyes forcefully because Madara lost his sight. In other words, he gave his eyes up for his brother or his brother took them. He needed them to remain strong and to protect the clan thus benefiting the whole clan.

And yet he still massacred this very clan like rats? That does'nt seem even a little silly to you?

Izuna and Kagami theory are the top 2 theories tbh. Who do you speculate Tobi is?

Izuna is impossible and for any logical person is not even a consideration to be Tobi. Kagami is possible, i'll give you that but its unlikely.

Its all speculation, and there is no way to prove who Tobi is exactly. But so far i'm leaning towards Shisui(i have my reasons, don't ask it'll take too long to explain everything).

 

[Edge]

Terrible counter arguments, all of them. I guess Izuna=Tobi tards are getting desperate now lol.

1. Neither has Kagami, Shisui, the Elder Son etc. So your point is ?
2. Another fail on your part. Izuna had the EMS?? He died with only the Mangekyuo, Madara took his eyes and gained EMS, not Izuna. You should read the manga before making ignorant statements.
EDIT: Just saw you said Madara has similarities to Tobi in this point. Well again when has Tobi been shown with anything other than a 3 tomoe sharingan? Besides, this point does't help Tobi=Izuna if you were referring to Madara.
And Minato never mistook Tobi for Madara, he just asked him if he were Madara, as he did'nt know of anyone else that would make sense to be Tobi.
3.Where has that been shown? What Madara said about reviving Hashirama was just in jest, he does'nt know how to revive people, or else why did'nt he just give his rinnegan to Izuna(if he revived him) and tell him how to revive himself with it? He only knew that the rinnegan had rinne tensei, him knowing how to use it is incredibly unlikely as he died 'shortly' after awakening it.
4. Sorry but that is just an assumption on your part. Tobi said i gave Nagato the rinnegan, but obviously Madara was the one who gave Tobi his rinnegan . Those were'nt Tobi's eyes to begin with, stop stating speculations as fact.

5. And what ? Does'nt prove anything. The counter arguments against it are far greater evidence than that one page.

You call all that^^ insurmountable evidence?

ok.

I say insurmountable evidence because you've yet to surmount it.

1) That it supports the fact that he may be Izuna. It's supporting evidence despite it also supporting other characters. Good god...

2) Put EMS by accident, edited it.

Your Edit: Both Madara and Tobi have Sharingan. Madara had the ability and prowess to FOOL THE ENTIRE NINJA WORLD that he was Madara. Furthermore, on multiple occasions, just by witnessing his power alone, people have questioned whether he was Madara. (Minato and Jiraiya). Minato asking Tobi if he was Madara is him mistaking him for Madara (might have been unclear), he's powerful enough that (which is what you said) only Madara would make sense.

3) LOL. Your claiming that Izuna is illogical because Madara said so and yet you think what Madara SAID (about raising people from the dead) is in jest? Alright. You don't know whether it was in jest or not, neither do you know that he doesn't know how.
The Rinne Tensei has limits (it killed Nagato) although we are unware of them, perhaps this is why one can't constantly spam it (Tobi confirms this by saying Nagato's Rinne Tensei was "meant for him")
Also, Madara awakening his eyes shortly before his death could also mean shorlty before his battle with Hashirama, plenty of time to revive Izuna.

4)How is it an assumption? HE SAID IT. I thought you read the manga?

5) It proves that Tobi feels something towards what happened between Izuna and Madara on a personal level. Blatantly stating something isn't proof when you fail to analyze it is "illogical" on your part.

Since obviously you read the manga more than anyone else here, you can find these examples without me having to put them up for you. Looking forward to your reply since obviously I'm "desperate".

 

[NarutoKage2]

I say insurmountable evidence because you've yet to surmount it.

*sigh*, do we really have to go through this again...?

1) That it supports the fact that he may be Izuna. It's supporting evidence despite it also supporting other characters. Good god...

If it helps support other characters as well than it does'nt have any value for your specific character, as you're trying to prove Tobi=Izuna in particular so logically your points should help to narrow down the list, but it fails in doing this. And don't use exclamations like that, its annoying.

2) Put EMS by accident, edited it.

Your Edit: Both Madara and Tobi have Sharingan. Madara had the ability and prowess to FOOL THE ENTIRE NINJA WORLD that he was Madara. Furthermore, on multiple occasions, just by witnessing his power alone, people have questioned whether he was Madara. (Minato and Jiraiya). Minato asking Tobi if he was Madara is him mistaking him for Madara (might have been unclear), he's powerful enough that (which is what you said) only Madara would make sense.

I think you meant Tobi had the prowess to fool the entire ninja world he was Madara lol.
Because Minato did'nt know anyone else who made sense to him. However, he immediately goes past this and says 'it does'nt matter who you are, why have you decided to attack the leaf?'.

3) LOL. Your claiming that Izuna is illogical because Madara said so and yet you think what Madara SAID (about raising people from the dead) is in jest? Alright. You don't know whether it was in jest or not, neither do you know that he doesn't know how.
The Rinne Tensei has limits (it killed Nagato) although we are unware of them, perhaps this is why one can't constantly spam it (Tobi confirms this by saying Nagato's Rinne Tensei was "meant for him")
Also, Madara awakening his eyes shortly before his death could also mean shorlty before his battle with Hashirama, plenty of time to revive Izuna.

Its obvious. If it is'nt the case, why does'nt Madara revive someone right now? Instead of using Kage bunshins against the Kages ? He has rinnegan, if Rinne Tensei is no problem why not revive someone, since this jutsu does'nt require DNA and if Madara knows how to use it w/o a time limit(only way he would revive Izuna) why does'nt he revive, say the Elder Son of the Sage?

At the bolded, are you sure we're reading the same manga? Madara already said he faked his death at the valley of the end, he confirmed meeting Nagato who was'nt even born until after the 1st died, plz explain how him awakening his rinnegan before fighting Hashirama till the many years till the birth of Nagato is 'shortly'?? :rofl:

4)How is it an assumption? HE SAID IT. I thought you read the manga?

Pretty big words, coming from someone who thinks Madara awoke the rinnegan before he fought Hashirama.
And so what if he said it? You want me to make a list of what else Tobi said that has been PROVEN to be untrue? Fine:
1. The 9 tails attack was a natural disaster, he said it to Sasuke: false
2. I am Madara Uchiha, he said it to the whole world: false.
3. Only Uchiha eye powers can control the Kyuubi, also said to Sasuke: false. He later said it himself during the Danzo fight that Uchiha plus Hashirama DNA can also control it.

Tobi is a habitual lier, that statement of the rinnegan belonging to him falls under the same category

5) It proves that Tobi feels something towards what happened between Izuna and Madara on a personal level. Blatantly stating something isn't proof when you fail to analyze it is "illogical" on your part.

You bring me these fairy tales and made up fabrications and call me 'illogical'?
Lol hilarious. Google the term 'fact', and contrast it with 'specualtion' to understand why this point of yours holds no weight.

Since obviously you read the manga more than anyone else here, you can find these examples without me having to put them up for you. Looking forward to your reply since obviously I'm "desperate".

Now now, you don't need to cry after having been owned. Just move along now, good sir.

 

[Aze]

Ill Close this Thread , My Theory has too many flaws right now , Ill have too update it in the Future when I gather more information.

Thanks guys for discussing it and sharing your opinions it was a great time :scorps: