I don't understand the logic people use here....

[Jcub]

It's not an exaggeration you ass clown. KISHIMOTO makes the manga he decides Hiruzen is the strongest and there is no going back! He is forever the strongest Hokage. The sage gives people jutsu... Who's the only character you know that takes Jutsu away? HIRUZEN SARUTOBI! Who is the only one to seal both the hokage away at old age? Hiruzen Sarutobi! Who's the one who was to powerful to be solo'd by anyone else so Kishi had to make him solo himself... You should know by now... Kiddo.

lol

Really, something written a manga ten years ago... If you havent noticed this isn't the most well written piece of literature on the planet, the direction and significance of characters plot ave changed over time, the guy has said this as well... so yeah, there is a lot or wiggle room when it comes to plot devices and even prehistoric feats.

 

[Mrmojo8484]

People are biased and there are no manga facts other then feats.

There are numerous examples when what some characters said dont go with logic and feats yet people use lame stalemates and say its manga facts U_U

But besides RDS, how can Minato kill Ay?

 

[Sageof7Path]

lol

really, something written a manga ten years ago... If you havent noticed this isn't the most well written piece of literature on the planet, the direction and significance of characters plot ave changed over time, the guy has said this as well... So yeah, there is a lot or wiggle room when it comes to plot devices and even prehistoric feats.

NO...

GOING...

BACK...

ayeeeee

 

[AlphaScythian]

But besides RDS, how can Minato kill Ay?

-maybe with summons, rasengans and kunais sure wont end him

 

[Zol]

It's not about people ignoring manga facts, it's about people not understanding these manga statements in their context.

With your example, the third Raikage couldn't be damaged by the attacks that were used against him in these two fights (past and present), but that doesn't mean no attack works on him. He most likely would be fodderized by the attacks used in the final battles.

 

[maniaoqan]

3rd Raikage never faced PS or Mokuton user. When gokage saw PS they all got suprised because they were not aware that power of that scale could've existed. To the people Hashirama and Madara's powers were exaggerated and couldn't be real. That was one of the reasons fodders like Iruka thought Hiruzen was strongest Hokage when he was at his so called prime.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Well I go by assumptions instead of manga facts. Even though I respect people who use manga panels in there debates. I still have to say that some times manga facts can be twisted as assumptions.

 

[ShiroT]

lol....yeah I'm pretty much done debating here...i get pissed off too easy.

because its to hard to figure out whether something is a fact or merely hype so we can really only judge based on observations.

 

[Mrmojo8484]

because its to hard to figure out whether something is a fact or merely hype so we can really only judge based on observations.

Yes that's true. I mean, some of these guys have a good point in thus thread by saying that the 3rd raikage never faced a PS or Mokuton user but still......Manga is telling me otherwise.

Now even if we decide to refute these Manga facts, let's look at these good Ole pieces of evidence:

1. Multiple clashes with a rampaging 8 tails and took no damage.

2. Fought 10,000 and took no damage.

3. Fought Naruto and tanked a FRS.

Niw, I'm not saying these points gurantee he could tank anything, but everyone should agree there is a good chance he tanks anything.

 

[Xāvî1]

Manga facts/Manga Scans -> everything

 

[Ansatsuken]

Exactly which is why Prime Hirauzen is the strongest Hokage... Hey that's Kishi's description. MANGA FACT!

What is the name of Kpop group in your sig Sageof7Path?

 

[Ansatsuken]

Yes that's true. I mean, some of these guys have a good point in thus thread by saying that the 3rd raikage never faced a PS or Mokuton user but still......Manga is telling me otherwise.

Now even if we decide to refute these Manga facts, let's look at these good Ole pieces of evidence:

1. Multiple clashes with a rampaging 8 tails and took no damage.

2. Fought 10,000 and took no damage.

3. Fought Naruto and tanked a FRS.

Niw, I'm not saying these points gurantee he could tank anything, but everyone should agree there is a good chance he tanks anything.

The point is all attack he ever against is not to destructive as PS slash, Shinsuusenju, Meteor, TTBFRS, Ash bone etc

We yet to know his upper limit just his middle limit, but even we yet to know his upper limit, still logically speaking, attack like PS slash, TTBFRS is far higher than his upper limit can handle. I think he upper limit is just below large Kurama TBB that can destroyed the mountain range.

And I don't think that 3 Raikage have mountain or island level durability, that is bulls***

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Now I understand hashi and Maddy attacks are on another level, but we can only ASSUME the can hurt the 3rd raikage.

Manga says they cant.

The fact is it's a fictional universe, and you are talking about made up fan fiction fights. A certain amount of common sense and assumptions need to be made, since everything anyone says about the fight is simply speculation. Outlandish claims can be easily sorted out but I would say its reasonable to believe Madara could figure out a way to break through 3rd raikAges lightning armor.

That is an assumption the same way it is for you to assume he cannot. It is a question to which we will never have a solid answer to As well.

 

[Vicmann]

I just brought this up because I get annoyed when I can't have a real debate with people because 5th eyes like to say things to their arguments advantage.

Should we just go off Manga facts and not assumptions?

I like to use manga facts but also extrapolate from them.
Let's take Third Raikage as you exemplified. It was said he was hurt only by his own attack in his life. One can logically think that none of the opponents he fought against managed to hurt him. But how about those he never fought? This raises questions. What if Third Raikage fought against Hashirama let's say or some other Kage? Maybe they would be powerful enough to crack his lightning armor. Sometimes manga is ambiguous and you just have to think things through. Believing Third's armor would be ultimately unbeatable unless he is hit with his own attack is just ridiculous.
Now this was just an example of how manga facts and logical thinking can coexist.

 

[Zol]

Yes that's true. I mean, some of these guys have a good point in thus thread by saying that the 3rd raikage never faced a PS or Mokuton user but still......Manga is telling me otherwise.

Now even if we decide to refute these Manga facts, let's look at these good Ole pieces of evidence:

1. Multiple clashes with a rampaging 8 tails and took no damage.

2. Fought 10,000 and took no damage.

3. Fought Naruto and tanked a FRS.

Niw, I'm not saying these points gurantee he could tank anything, but everyone should agree there is a good chance he tanks anything.

No. All we know for a fact is that these attacks/battles you listed didn't harm him. The attacks in the final battles (vs. Juubi Jin Obito and Madara, Kaguya) are on a completely different level. If we take into account what we saw there, for instance, Perfect Susanoos getting crushed like paper planes, we can easily conclude the Third Raikage would get fodderized on that level.

 

[Darkakatsuki]

Well I go by assumptions instead of manga facts. Even though I respect people who use manga panels in there debates. I still have to say that some times manga facts can be twisted as assumptions.

The way I see it, the only manga facts are feats. Hype is not a manga fact, it is simply that character's perspective. Ay fought Minato with his brother and came to the conclusion that Minato was unbeatable and could never be surpassed. Is that a fact? No, Minato has been surpassed by Sasuke, Naruto, and DMS Kakashi, even if it's plot no jutsu/free power-up no jutsu, and asspull no jutsu, it still happened is therefore manga fact. Hiruzen was Iruka guardian similar to how he was to Naruto, and he was a sort of advisor to him and father figure when Iruka lost his parents. So to him. He was also Orochimaru's sensei. Ofcourse they would hype him up as the strongest, coz to them he was the benchmark. Kabuto hyped Hiruzen because he was the person that taught the person he admired. There's a scene when Kabuto is kicking Tsunade, who is on the ground. Practically begging her to up her game because of what he apparent weakness says about Orochimaru's shared status with her as a sannin. In other words, Kabuto wanted her to give him a reason to praise her because if she was weak then it meant that Orochimaru, the person he admires, was nothing special. So once again, ofcourse Kabuto would praise and hype Hiruzen, the mentor of his mentor. The people of Ame and some of the Akatsuki believed that Konan was an Angel and that Pain was a literal God. Why? Because the feats they saw were so amazing to them that they concluded he couldn't possibly be human. It's all character perspective. Kishi even went out of his way to show us the meaning of hyperbole and character perspective with the third raikage. The guy was hyped to be an impenetrable shield and his offensive jutsu was hyped as a sword that penetrates everything. But how can those two things exist together in the same universe much less in the same person? If the sword penetrates everything and the shield is impenetrable than what happens when they clash against each other? One of them will have to be proven to be an exaggeration obviously in such a scenario.

 

[Darkakatsuki]

I like to use manga facts but also extrapolate from them.
Let's take Third Raikage as you exemplified. It was said he was hurt only by his own attack in his life. One can logically think that none of the opponents he fought against managed to hurt him. But how about those he never fought? This raises questions. What if Third Raikage fought against Hashirama let's say or some other Kage? Maybe they would be powerful enough to crack his lightning armor. Sometimes manga is ambiguous and you just have to think things through. Believing Third's armor would be ultimately unbeatable unless he is hit with his own attack is just ridiculous.
Now this was just an example of how manga facts and logical thinking can coexist.

I don't believe any of the Kage of his time have anything more powerful and destructive as a tailed beast ball from the eight tails, in fact, if he tanked rasenshuriken, which attacks at a molecular level, then he can tank pretty much anything from those other Kage. Only thing that might stand a chance is Onoki's dust release, but even that would probably get tanked just like rasenshuriken and tailed beast ball. Plus, the raikage is said to have taken on 10 000 Iwa shinobi, which means they were at war with Iwa and there's very slim chance he never faced Onoki at some point in that war.

 

[Torche]

People are ****** here, people are denying Kaguya >> Madara when the manga easily stated that she is the strongest goddess of the Narutoverse and that Madara was only fraction of her power. Lol

But she wasn't the one taken out with Deus ex machina which says otherwise. Lol

 

[Mrmojo8484]

Good points vicmann and ero sennin.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

But she wasn't the one taken out with Deus ex machina which says otherwise. Lol

She was taken out by Deus ex machina because manga states otherwise.